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Orange Blooded [3371]
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For Judge Keller about basketball
May 19, 2020, 6:08 AM
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The facilities are what they are. Clemson is NOT going to pour money into basketball like it does football.
So if Brownell cannot win in the circumstances he is in, Clemson needs to find a coach who can.
Money and facilities are not going to solve the basketball issues at Clemson. It will take a coach who can motivate his players to be All In and give 100%.
There is no way you can honestly say CBB is a great motivater.
It doesn't take money or facilities to give 100% as a coach and motivate his players to do the same.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 19, 2020, 6:13 AM
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He will say CBB is doing good with what we have then. We are on the rise with recruiting. The players give 100%, as does the coach. There you go. I kind of agree with him. There's your answer.
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Orange Blooded [4754]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 19, 2020, 7:03 AM
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Honestly heading into last season I thought we would finish dead last in ACC hoops. I was more than surprised. Now with what we have this next season should be fun to watch. In the past I've been no fan of CBB but he deserves credit for a job well done last season.
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All-In [27363]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 19, 2020, 8:05 AM
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The Tigers have a much better coach than they have some fans! BB does an excellent job with the talent he had. Perhaps you would prefer that the Tigers be in the same situation as NCSU is right now.
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Heisman Winner [133614]
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Congratulations on reaching 14,000 TU's!!!
May 19, 2020, 8:58 AM
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FORESTTIGER
Message was edited by: MyfavOrange®
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All-TigerNet [12831]
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Re: Congratulations on reaching 13,000 TU's!!!
May 19, 2020, 9:23 AM
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Did he get 1000 likes today? ??
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Heisman Winner [133614]
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Re: Congratulations on reaching 13,000 TU's!!!
May 19, 2020, 9:53 AM
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DANG IT!!!!!!!
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All-In [27363]
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All-TigerNet [10121]
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Heisman Winner [133614]
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Football is the money maker in college sports. I copied
May 19, 2020, 8:57 AM
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Judge Keller® so he can find your post.
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All-TigerNet [10121]
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Yes ... and the Judge definitely won’t be ....
May 19, 2020, 10:01 AM
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.... happy !! ??
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CU Guru [1027]
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CBB's deficiency comes on the ....
May 19, 2020, 9:00 AM
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offensive end of the floor where we consistently struggle. Our half court offense has been very inconsistent and prone to prolonged stagnation resulting in awful long jumpers for years. He gets kids to buy into a defensive heavy approach.
It works when it works but in today's game, the high profile recruits want to play an up and down Golden State type of game. We don't have that. Not sure if he can hire an offensive coordinator...
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All-In [43990]
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No one expects Clemson to spend the same amount on basketball as on football.
May 19, 2020, 9:26 AM
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But you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think facilities are just as important for basketball, if not more so.
A recruit is contacted by Clemson. They immediately think “football school.” They might even think this means that we don’t care about basketball at Clemson. Coaches from other teams are pointing this out to them, as well as our pathetic basketball history overall.
Our coaches must overcome this perception. When our coaches talk to a recruit, especially one who is a top 50 or top 100 player with multiple high level offers, what do we have to offer?
A storied basketball history? Nope.
A track record of getting a lot of players in the NBA? No.
A reputation for having a loud, rabid fan base? Nope.
So we better have other things that a player finds appealing. Simply telling him that he can come to Clemson to play in the ACC isn’t good enough, especially since we want and need to be recruiting players who already have offers from the ACC and other great basketball conferences.
Guess what? Facilities can be a great equalizer. They matter, a lot. And for a school like Clemson, they are imperative.
Contrary to popular belief, Brad isn’t a bad recruiter. Players like him and his staff a lot. But he isn’t going to get top recruits to come to Clemson if he doesn’t have much to sell. That’s true of any coach.
As for motivating players and getting the most out of them, I feel that this is one of Brownell’s best attributes. If you look at the talent level of our team compared to most others we play, we aren’t usually more talented. But we play our tails off and never quit. This has been a staple of Brownell teams throughout his tenure. With only a few exceptions, we overachieve each year relative to preseason expectations.
Finally, your expectations regarding basketball are exactly the problem we must overcome. You simply can’t expect a coach to recruit well without much to sell, and believe that all it takes is hard work and motivation to be successful. Brownell and his staff work very hard and are very motivated. Our players are consistently so as well. But at the end of the day, talent reigns supreme and we need more of it. Thankfully we are starting to get it. Why? Because Clemson decided to put some real money into basketball facilities a few years ago.
Needless to say, I am excited to see what he can do now that we’ve strung together a couple of good recruiting classes. I predict we will have some memorable seasons as a result.
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Heisman Winner [139856]
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Re: No one expects Clemson to spend the same amount on basketball as on football.
May 19, 2020, 9:55 AM
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All-TigerNet [10121]
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Re: No one expects Clemson to spend the same amount on basketball as on football.
May 19, 2020, 10:04 AM
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Right you are - Francis .... as usual ... right you are !! - ">
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Orange Blooded [3371]
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Re: No one expects Clemson to spend the same amount on basketball as on football.
May 19, 2020, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to No one expects Clemson to spend the same amount on basketball as on football. ] |
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All I am saying is the facilities are what they are. Clemson is NOT going to pour money into a newly renovated arena.
So if CBB can't win now he never will.
It's the best he's getting until he produces increased income on a regular basis.
You can complain daily about the financial commitment to CBB but it is what it is and if he can't do it now it's time to make a change
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All-In [43990]
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No one is complaining about the current facilities.
May 19, 2020, 11:36 AM
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They are nice. Are they the best in the nation? Not even close. They aren't the best in the ACC, but they certainly get us into the top half of the conference, rather than near the bottom.
The bells and whistles are nice, and it's what recruits want to see. These facilities cause recruits to doubt the notion that Clemson doesn't care about basketball.
The reality is that these facilities have allowed us to go after, and sign, a caliber of player we haven't had at Clemson in a really long time. As I'm sure you know, the recruiting cycle for college players is at least a few years, if not longer. How long have we had these new facilities? A few years. In other words, these guys we just signed have seen these new facilities for most or all of their recruitment. That's huge, as first impressions on the recruiting trail are very important.
The question is, will Clemson continue to enhance facilities as needed, rather than taking the historical approach of doing nothing for a decade or two? That will be the true measure of Clemson's commitment to basketball.
Now is the time to start to really evaluate Brad as a recruiter and coach. He finally has some semblance of the facilities and staff he needs (and spent years requesting).
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CU Guru [1718]
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Unfortunately for him, he has a record of his own that
May 19, 2020, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to No one expects Clemson to spend the same amount on basketball as on football. ] |
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he must try to sell. As much as I like Brownell, and as good of a coach as I believe he is, Clemson basketball is inextricably tied to his record of mediocrity. There is no way any recruit can separate Brownell from that record in their heads. Do we need better facilities? Maybe . . . even probably. But that would be almost meaningless as long as Brownell is coach, I'm afraid. The program needs new blood, a fresh start at the top, in the form of somebody recruits can believe can win. That could either be a well established winner, or a young hotshot who can sell himself and the idea of a fresh start and big things to come. Brownell simply can't do that.
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All-In [43990]
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Brownell has managed to sell his vision and his abilities
May 19, 2020, 12:35 PM
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to some great recruits these last couple of recruiting cycles.
Either he has magically learned how to recruit after being a head coach for nearly 20 years, or all he needed was more administrative support in terms of facility upgrades and staff positions.
It's up to Clemson fans to decide which option to choose. As someone who has seen what Brad can do, and who believes in him, the clear cut choice is #2.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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We'll see. Now that he's loaded up on elite level, future
May 19, 2020, 12:46 PM
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NBA star recruits, no more excuses.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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I don't expect CBB to recruit the highest level - what i do
May 20, 2020, 10:51 AM
[ in reply to No one expects Clemson to spend the same amount on basketball as on football. ] |
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expect is that he evaluate the talent of 3 star players and then DEVELOP them into a good unit. By the time they are juniors and seniors - they are a good team. Simply getting a 5 star is good for paper - but the team needs roles and development. Some say he is a good recruiter. I don't see it. He either does a poor job of upward progress or a poor job of development. Add to that - he cannot attract a 4 or a 5 and actually develop or keep them - says a lot. Last year - we have our best player (who I think is a 2/3) playing a 5. Which kept Sims from developing in his natural position.
There are many schools out there that don't have pedigree, don't have amazing facilities, etc (yet still are good basketball programs that compete). People keep bringing those up.
What they fail to mention is what we DO have. A great school, great education, great location, national recognition, best conference for basketball (historically), play UNC, Duke, Syracuse, louisville, etc every year and gain national exposure, a great football school, etc. Sometimes - you need to sell what you DO have and not what you dont.
Recruit and develop, play a style of play that is fun to watch, play with an inside game.
when was Clemson the best? When we have an inside game and some dominance.
On another note - due to the virus - we watch older games on the ACC network. I watched UNC and Wake play - not sure the year - maybe around 82/83. Was a great game - but what most impressed me was how good the teams were back then. IMO - If you took the teams back then and played the ACC now - I believe they would destroy the teams of today. Maybe will start a thread for that one.
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All-In [43990]
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So you want him to build a team of unheralded players
May 20, 2020, 11:20 AM
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into a winner? You mean like our Sweet 16 team a couple of years ago? That was one of our best teams in program history.
I would disagree with your goal of having a good team every few years. We should have a good team every year.
We certainly have a lot to offer a student-athlete. Brad focuses on those, of course. But when it comes to BASKETBALL, he has been at a disadvantage.
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Oculus Spirit [76716]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 19, 2020, 10:08 AM
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So another quarter go’s into the merry go round.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 19, 2020, 10:10 AM
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User Logo
waterboyII
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For Judge Keller about basketball [1]
Posted: May 19, 2020 6:08 AM
Reply
The facilities are what they are. Clemson is NOT going to pour money into basketball like it does football.
So if Brownell cannot win in the circumstances he is in, Clemson needs to find a coach who can.
Money and facilities are not going to solve the basketball issues at Clemson. It will take a coach who can motivate his players to be All In and give 100%.
There is no way you can honestly say CBB is a great motivater.
It doesn't take money or facilities to give 100% as a coach and motivate his players to do the same.
KELLY GRAMLICH, WHO PLAYED AT CLEMSON AND HAS BEEN TO EVERY ARENA TO PLAY SAID AFTER THE LATEST RENOVATIONS THAT CLEMSON WAS 4TH OR 5TH IN FACILITIES. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS IS SH!T OR GET OFF THE POT YEAR FOR COACH. WE HAVE ALL THE PIECES IN PLACE TO BE VERY GOOD THIS YEAR.
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All-In [28199]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 19, 2020, 10:30 AM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 19, 2020, 10:38 AM
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SMH
There has been a significant improvement in recruiting since Littljohn was renovated. That is obvious.
We are going into next year with the most talented roster (from a recruiting ranking standpoint) in my lifetime (I'm 30).
If we have some success next year and the year after, then recruiting should improve even more.
It has taken Brownell a while to get us to this point, but I think we are about to have sustained success.
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110%er [7555]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 19, 2020, 10:48 AM
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Judge Keller ain’t going to like this.....Go Tigers!!!!
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Orange Blooded [3612]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 20, 2020, 10:17 AM
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Hey OP, you say our basketball players aren't as committed and "All In" as the football players.
I'm not putting words in your mouth. You literally said that CBB is unable to motivate his players to consistently give 100%.
Apparently you introduced a topic you have no comprehension of.
I know you intend to be a good fan, but this is what Dabo warns about when he talks about 'unappreciative' fans: fat, middle-aged used-to-be-grade-school-athletes who, because they bought a ticket (or didn't) feel free to criticize the heart, work ethic, dedication, study habits, teamwork, sacrifices, on-floor judgment and jump shot of a kid who could have chosen a more supportive fan base, while competing against some of the best talent in the country.
I'm not saying there's no room for constructive criticism, but your OP wasn't constructive. Like Carlsbad said, this past season was a testament to CBB's motivational talent. Did you sleep through last season?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 20, 2020, 10:49 AM
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I think most opposing teams in the ACC know that Clemson basketball is going to give everything they have for 40 minutes. I think Brownell is a good coach and I really do think he’s about to turn the corner with the program. I thought he was honestly brilliant at the end of regulation and in OT in Chapel Hill last year. Give him a few studs and he will do some damage in the ACC.
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Orange Blooded [3612]
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Re: For Judge Keller about basketball
May 20, 2020, 12:35 PM
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I love to listen to radio broadcasts of our opposition on TuneIn radio. The broadcast crews know their basketball, and they say what they think without regard to being polite or hurting Clemson fans' feelings.
I have heard nothing but good and respectful things said about Coach B's teams and players, even from our rivals. The coaches' interviews can be especially complimentary.
That's not always the case. Coaches are under no obligation to promote the opponent coach.
If we say "of course not, they're just showing class", doesn't that imply that we fans...um, don't?
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