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All-In [31885]
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So I read the 85 page complaint the Trump Campaign...
Nov 11, 2020, 8:04 AM
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filed in Pennsylvania.
https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/2020-11-09-complaint-as-filed.pdf
My summary would be that it's a process complaint. There is no allegation of wide-spread fraud and now allegation of anything that would have substantially changed the outcome.
With that said, I agree with some of the complaints. Mainly, voters voting by mail should be required to sign their ballot envelope just like people voting in person must sign the voter roll.
I would say their main complaint is about the poll watchers being too far away during a period before the agreement on 6ft was reached between the parties. If I read it correctly they asking for the ballots counted during that period to be thrown out. I don't think there is any way that is going to happen and strikes me a crazy request. I'm curious to know how many objections on ballots were raised by republicans once the watchers were moved up.
There were a lot of what I would call "small-ball" complaints like some counties issuing incorrect guidance to a voter to cast a provisional ballot when they shouldn't have had to. That kind of crap happens every go-around. The fact that it was included in such a complaint tells me the level of desperation to fill some pages.
The complaint is requesting an order preventing the vote to be certified by the PA Sec of State.
I'm no lawyer, but I can't imagine this suit being successful. I also can't imagine any reasonable person reading this and coming to the conclusion that PA is somehow still in play for the President.
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Legend [16240]
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Trump's career MO with lawsuits as a business practice has
Nov 11, 2020, 8:26 AM
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been more of a tool to stall and delay, buying time with spurious claims to starve contractors and force them into settlements, or like he did as POTUS on many oversight requests to delay the release of harmful information until he could get through another election. The problem with that time-tested approach here is that the courts are prioritizing these claims and ruling quickly, so the use of lawsuits as purely a delay tactic (delay the EC vote and force a House election) isn't going to pan out for him like it has in the past, not when it concerns elections.
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All-In [46814]
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Unless they keep filing suits
Nov 11, 2020, 10:54 AM
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not sure how that works though.
If Trump's team just keeps filing suit after suit after suit to keep the states from certifying votes, does it go to the house or do the courts just stop hearing them and allow the states to certify?
Seems like that's what the Trump team is trying to do. Stall with a mountain of lawsuits to keep the states from being able to certify.
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Legend [16240]
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Not sure, but in Florida in 2000 Katherine Harris certified
Nov 11, 2020, 11:06 AM
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Florida's votes while litigation was still pending there, so I would imagine we will see similar steps made by states this time around, barring an actual court order preventing it.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: So I read the 85 page complaint the Trump Campaign...
Nov 11, 2020, 8:29 AM
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Flo said, "If I read it correctly they asking for the ballots counted during that period to be thrown out. I don't think there is any way that is going to happen and strikes me a crazy request."
I would say that at best they might ask for those ballots to be counted again with observers.
If they were interested in honest results, that would have been their request.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: So I read the 85 page complaint the Trump Campaign...
Nov 11, 2020, 8:30 AM
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I just had another thought. The observers missed the earliest vote counting - yes ? Wouldn't that have been the in person votes - which went for Trump ? Do they really want to throw those votes out ??
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All-In [40925]
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As long as every vote is matched with an ID
Nov 11, 2020, 9:15 AM
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and the counting of that vote is watched by both parties, I'm good with the outcome. I'm good with the outcome even if the cheaters win, I just want them to stop cheating.
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All-In [31885]
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You want someone to stop cheating that you don't have...
Nov 11, 2020, 11:06 AM
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any proof of them cheating.
Makes sense.
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Legend [17279]
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Most states have secrecy provisions that make it impossible
Nov 11, 2020, 9:10 AM
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to connect voter signature to an individual ballot after initial acceptance as a registered voter _for either in-person voting or mail voting. Once a ballot counted, then challenging the inclusion in tabulation will lack specificity.
Courts would have to make unprecedented and hugely significant rulings to discard large blocks of ballots or to invalidate the entire election.
At least that’s how I understand it. Could be wrong.
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All-In [31429]
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Re: So I read the 85 page complaint the Trump Campaign...
Nov 11, 2020, 9:20 AM
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I read it too. Lots of citations and references until you get to the allegations portion. Good luck to Rudy Giuliani on threading this needle.
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Oculus Spirit [78865]
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geez, get a hobby***
Nov 11, 2020, 10:31 AM
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All-In [31885]
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tell me about it! Was raining last night...
Nov 11, 2020, 10:50 AM
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and we lost internet (so no Netflix on TV) so I read this on my tablet. A little fun / light reading.
As a serious note, I think this is a pretty big issue and I wanted to feel comfortable with the issue and not have to rely on someone else's spin/summary.
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Oculus Spirit [78865]
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yep, everybody has a spin***
Nov 11, 2020, 11:42 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: So I read the 85 page complaint the Trump Campaign...
Nov 11, 2020, 11:36 AM
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All-In [31885]
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90% turn-out of registered voters doesn't seem that...
Nov 11, 2020, 12:53 PM
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far-fetched to me in Wisconsin.
We don't normally think of turn-out in terms of registered voters, but rather eligible voters. According the article linked below, the voter turn-out was 72.67% of eligible voters. Which is not as high as the record set in 2004.
In other words, it's a nothing burger, IMO.
If these recounts go like all other recounts have gone, it isn't going to move the vote totals enough to make a difference. Normal movement is in the low hundreds max after a recount.
I'm fine with Trump making legal challenges and letting them play out. As with most things Trump, it's his rhetoric that is dangerous. Declaring he really won, stating as fact that there is wide-spread fraud...basically just making stuff up and the only end result is people that actually believe what he says having a skewed and deteriorated view of our election system and the institution of democracy in general. And all to serve his ego and not to serve the good of the country.
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Hall of Famer [20538]
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Re: 90% turn-out of registered voters doesn't seem that...
Nov 11, 2020, 12:58 PM
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It's stupid and self-defeating over the long term.
Voter disillusionment is a real thing. Convince enough people that the deck is stacked for the other side and it just plain doesn't matter whether you show up or not because the other side will find a way to bag it anyhow, and people just don't show up.
Not the message you want being sent, if you're the Republican leadership. They're behind in terms of registered voters anyhow but Pubs tend to show up; Dems historically are hit-or-miss, so it's always skewed about even.
If that changes, it's really not good for the smaller side.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [31885]
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I don't know...here is a good summary of past...
Nov 12, 2020, 7:15 AM
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elections.
https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/number-of-voters-and-voter-registration-in-thousands-as-a-share-of-the-voter-population/?currentTimeframe=1&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D
WI has a relatively high voter registration as % of population.
This chart shows that in 2016 Presidential election, 92% of registered voters (3,068k/3,323k). In the 2018 off-year election it was 89%.
So, in other words, according to these figures, the WI figure is consistent with past elections.
Full disclosure, I didn't try to verify these figures. The figures for SC look low to me on this chart. The WI totals are close to what I had seen before when researching the false claim that came out last week that more people voted in WI than were registered.
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Hall of Famer [20538]
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Re: So I read the 85 page complaint the Trump Campaign...
Nov 11, 2020, 12:40 PM
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Pff.
Getting the facts and reading yourself. How so very pedestrian.
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