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Replies: 71
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All-In [42138]
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"LOL, Trump's not a fascist! All your liberal lungers...
May 24, 2018, 2:10 PM
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...don't know what you're talking about!"
"You have to stand proudly for the National Anthem or you shouldn't be playing. You shouldn't be there. Maybe you shouldn't be in the country," Donald Trump, today.
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All-In [46816]
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Attack on the media? check
May 24, 2018, 2:15 PM
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punishment for people who are peacefully protesting? check.
Next: Take over of the court system
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All-In [42138]
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All-In [28802]
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This is exceptionally dumb
May 24, 2018, 3:25 PM
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which is no surprise given the source
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All-In [31887]
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It really was***
May 26, 2018, 10:44 AM
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110%er [7026]
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Is the NFL a government entity now??
May 24, 2018, 3:37 PM
[ in reply to Attack on the media? check ] |
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Did the president make the rule for the NFL, or did the NFL make their own rule due to disgruntled customers?
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Oculus Spirit [97703]
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Dang. My parents were fascist. My cousins are fascist.
May 24, 2018, 2:20 PM
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My teachers in school were fascist. My pastor is fascist. My son is in the fascist cub scouts. My wife is fascist. I'm teaching fascism to my kids as well I guess. My grandparents were fascist, even though they fought them.
Thanks for the enlightenment. I never knew I was this evil.
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All-In [42138]
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That's a lot of fascists!
May 24, 2018, 2:22 PM
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Let's double check to make sure you're not misrepresenting my post or straw manning:
Forced nationalism with punitive consequences for failure to comply is part of fascist ideology.
Did all those people you list support that?
If so, then yep, they embrace fascist ideology. But as Hemingway once said, America has a lot of fascists who don't know they are, but they'll know it when the time comes.
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Oculus Spirit [97703]
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Re: That's a lot of fascists!
May 24, 2018, 2:34 PM
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Forced nationalism with punitive consequences for failure to comply is part of fascist ideology.
Well, my grandfather fought fascist, and he would pop a knot on your head if you didn't stand for the national anthem or the pledge. So is he a fascist who fought fascist then? He actually was in a jeep that ran over a fascist landmine in Anzio. I never knew he was a fascist fighting fascism.
Cub scouts are fascist. There are tens of thousands of fascist at Clemson games every Saturday. Guy in front of us at Clemson games definitely is because he yanked his son up by the arm when he didn't stand for the pledge.
In fact, just this past Tuesday evening my fascist son (who is a fascist cub scout) and I went to the cemetery to put fascist flags on the graves of Americans who died fighting fascists. It was an overt sign of nationalism. I for one am glad you weren't there.
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Rock Defender [53]
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It’s like if Irmotig was literate. What a post.***
May 24, 2018, 2:35 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81890]
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All-In [42138]
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Re: That's a lot of fascists!
May 24, 2018, 2:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's a lot of fascists! ] |
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I know you misread my original post and thought I was trying to say people who stood for the national anthem were fascist, but I'll at least address this recovery attempt.
Well, my grandfather fought fascist, and he would pop a knot on your head if you didn't stand for the national anthem or the pledge. So is he a fascist who fought fascist then? He actually was in a jeep that ran over a fascist landmine in Anzio. I never knew he was a fascist fighting fascism.
And I'd have beaten your grandfather's ### if he touched me and reminded him that in this country, we have the freedom to express ourselves. Yes, he most certainly embraced fascist ideology if he felt someone should be physically assaulted for not standing for the anthem. But I assume you are exaggerating your grandfather's actions.
Cub scouts are fascist. There are tens of thousands of fascist at Clemson games every Saturday. Guy in front of us at Clemson games definitely is because he yanked his son up by the arm when he didn't stand for the pledge.
Cub scouts is a voluntary organization. The government doesn't punish you if you don't stand. And while I stand at every Clemson game, it's going to be a very long night for the person who decides to touch me if I make a choice not to. Home boy can police his kid as he sees fit, but he better mind his own business with strangers.
In fact, just this past Tuesday evening my fascist son (who is a fascist cub scout) and I went to the cemetery to put fascist flags on the graves of Americans who died fighting fascists. It was an overt sign of nationalism. I for one am glad you weren't there.
Yep. See. There it is. You intentionally twisting my post around into a neat little straw man (probably glued on some nice buttons for eyes). Nobody said supporting your country or saluting the flags was fascist. We're talking about supporting some kind of consequence for those who choose not to.
Before you reply with a five-paragraph essay with a lukewarm thesis, just answer this question first. Do you agree with Trump's statement that people who don't stand shouldn't be in this country? If your answer is no, then don't bother replying and we'll accept that you misunderstood my original post. If your answer is yes, well, welcome to the club.
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Heisman Winner [137863]
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People are allowed to "pop knots" on the heads of
May 24, 2018, 2:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's a lot of fascists! ] |
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the people they own, i.e., their children (within reason, obviously). That's about as far as it extends.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: That's a lot of fascists!
May 24, 2018, 2:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's a lot of fascists! ] |
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Is it your argument that the OP believes that patriotism is in and of itself fascist?
Or, do you not understand that punishing people for protesting the national anthem is wrong?
Which one of these don't you get?
Just to help you pick the right answer, the 1st Amendment guarantees free speech, particularly speech that is not universally accepted.
The courts will eat the NFL for lunch.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: That's a lot of fascists!
May 24, 2018, 2:58 PM
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"The courts will eat the NFL for lunch."
I doubt it.
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Oculus Spirit [97703]
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I'm taking his post completely at face value.
May 24, 2018, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's a lot of fascists! ] |
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It was hastily thought through, as was his reply to me. Because he did make patriotism in and of itself fascist in both the first post, and especially in his reply to me.
But yeah, the government can't enforce patriotism. But the NFL certainly can. It's a private organization, just like the cub scouts. And as President, Trump can certainly make his opinion known, which he did. Doesn't mean he can do anything about it. Just like he can't do anything about thousands of laws passed by democrats over the years, or laws he doesn't like. Actually, he can, which may explain all the fear. If Clinton, Bush 2, and Obama can ignore the enforcement of immigration laws, hummm....
Maybe we can see a bigger picture here that crosses party lines. Maybe.
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Oculus Spirit [81890]
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wut x3. Tiggity he even bolded the part.
May 24, 2018, 3:00 PM
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"Maybe you shouldn't be in the country"
As in, if you don't stand for the national anthem, you should be deported from the country. THAT is what you made your response to.
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Oculus Spirit [97703]
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He didn't say deported.
May 24, 2018, 3:31 PM
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He could have just as easily been suggesting that they leave voluntarily if it bothers them that much. I know many people who have said "well if so and so doesn't like that, then they should leave". Again, my fascist grandfather who fought the fascist said that once about flag burners. Famous people voluntarily leave all the time.
But to take a quote, and then insert deportation and fascism is irrational.
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All-In [42138]
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Then by all means, quote me...
May 24, 2018, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to I'm taking his post completely at face value. ] |
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Where I did this:
"Because he did make patriotism in and of itself fascist in both the first post, and especially in his reply to me."
Provide an exact quote, and not another run-of-the-mill conservative word twisting to suit an argument that we see on this board all the time.
Because if your definition of "patriotism" is your grandfather hitting someone on the head for not standing up, then we've got more serious lessons to teach.
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Oculus Spirit [97703]
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Ok. Again....
May 24, 2018, 3:14 PM
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"Forced nationalism with punitive consequences for failure to comply is part of fascist ideology."
I copied and pasted it. Again.
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All-In [42138]
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110%er [7026]
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It's a requirement of employment to a private business.
May 24, 2018, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's a lot of fascists! ] |
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They aren't "making" them do anything. Simply said if you come out on the field during the anthem then you will stand. If you choose not to, stay out of site until the anthem is over.
Don't like the rule? Hey it's a free country, go work somewhere else..
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All-In [31887]
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Wrong....
May 26, 2018, 10:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: That's a lot of fascists! ] |
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the 1st amendment guarantees that the government can't stop you from exercising free speech. A private employer can...that is pretty well established.
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Oculus Spirit [97703]
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Your post.
May 24, 2018, 2:52 PM
[ in reply to That's a lot of fascists! ] |
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I'll just leave it as you posted.
"Forced nationalism with punitive consequences for failure to comply is part of fascist ideology."
You didn't say GOVERNMENT. Even in the OP. So yeah, if a father disciplines his son for not standing for the anthem, he's a fascist. Same for cub scouts. Same for my grandfather.
You need to be a little more clear in your Trump rants since this has nothing to do with Trump. You injected fascism. You gave the definition. You can't start redefining your original post to sound more rational.
But I will accept your clarification at this point. But you just made millions of people into fascists in your eagerness to attack Trump. Keep that in mind next time.
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Heisman Winner [137863]
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OHHHH, I got it now.
May 24, 2018, 2:59 PM
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Trump was just talking about his sons leaving the country if they don't stand, not everybody else. OK, we're on the same page now.
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All-In [42138]
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Re: Your post.
May 24, 2018, 3:09 PM
[ in reply to Your post. ] |
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Soccer already answered this for me:
https://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=23540298#23540298
I made it very explicitly clear that it was Trump's statement that was fascist, and you jumped in with some bonkers post about your grandma and mailman and teacher and dog being fascist or something.
Let's start there. Read my very first post and the bold part. Then read your initial response, and you tell me that you didn't overreact.
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All-In [28802]
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My only problem with all this...
May 24, 2018, 3:52 PM
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is that when people on the right complain about similar stuff, people treat it as lunatic ramblings. Trump is cruder than most politicians, and rarely seems to think about what he says. But if we're being vigilant about fascist rhetoric, let's be vigilant about fascist rhetoric.
Yeah, yeah, that's mostly a "but you do it too."
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110%er [7026]
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In this case, it's a requirment of employment at a
May 24, 2018, 3:24 PM
[ in reply to That's a lot of fascists! ] |
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private business.
Don't like the rule implemented by your employer? You're free to go find another job that doesn't have that rule.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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He never said they should be punished. He clumsily made
May 25, 2018, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to That's a lot of fascists! ] |
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the point that if they don't like it here, they belong somewhere else. He didn't say they should be deported, did he?
I don't agree with that sentiment, but you can't claim he's a fascist based on that quote alone.
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All-In [48078]
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I think given the opportunity, Trump would be fascist...
May 25, 2018, 10:00 AM
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if our country was set up differently. That said, I completely agree with you. He didn't say they should be deported. It was spun by the more liberal news sources to fit their agenda.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: I think given the opportunity, Trump would be fascist...
May 25, 2018, 1:02 PM
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There's nothing special about our setup that prevents a fascist takeover.
And it wasn't spun, it was quoted directly. Every word out of the President's mouth should be considered a potential matter of policy.
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All-In [48078]
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Ummm yes it was spun and it was often given...
May 25, 2018, 2:30 PM
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meaning as to what he was trying to say. He never mentioned the word deport or forced to leave. Yet, that is what many libs news sources rambled about. As far as fascism, we have a system that limits what one man can do. Yes, we actually do.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Ummm yes it was spun and it was often given...
May 25, 2018, 3:56 PM
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When a President says someone shouldn't be in America, it should be taken only one way.
Also, are you suggesting that fascist and authoritarian regimes have risen only in countries where there had always been a dictatorship? Never from a country with a separation of powers?
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All-In [48078]
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Your mind is getting to you.
May 25, 2018, 4:05 PM
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It can be taken in numerous ways. It could mean that if you dislike the country maybe you should look for some place that will make you happier. I could come up with many more before I get to him talking about deportation. He could just be shooting off at the mouth as he always does and not thinking about anything at all. As far as fascist regimes, no I am not saying that. They have risen out of many different scenarios. What usally ends up happening though is that the power is consolidated. I am not a bit worried about that happening in the USA and that's pure paranoia for anyone to worry about that at this moment imo.
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All-In [31887]
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Oculus Spirit [81890]
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All-In [40656]
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All-In [48078]
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I think they should be forced to stand if they are out there
May 24, 2018, 2:58 PM
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not because I care about the anthem, but because it is bad business for them not to stand. A lot of players and people through the years worked hard to make the NFL what it is. The current players should do everything in their power to not do anything to hurt rating or the business of the NFL.
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All-In [42138]
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Do you or do you not agree...
May 24, 2018, 3:10 PM
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With Trump's statement that someone who doesn't stand should not be in this country?
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All-In [48078]
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I obviously disagree.
May 24, 2018, 3:15 PM
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His comment was just feeding his base though. His comment was just nonsense. I would have no problem with them kneeling for the anthem if it wasn't bad for business.
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All-In [28802]
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He also said "maybe," which is still stupid***
May 24, 2018, 3:23 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81890]
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"His comment was just feeding his base though."
May 24, 2018, 3:28 PM
[ in reply to I obviously disagree. ] |
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Do you not see the glaring issue with that? His base genuinely believes that's how it should be.
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All-In [48078]
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It is odd, yes.
May 24, 2018, 4:06 PM
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On a different note, if those NFL players that were taking knee in support of the 2nd amendment, or against abortion, they would probably be called heroes by many of Trump's base.
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All-In [28802]
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And villains by the left
May 24, 2018, 5:32 PM
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One thing that always amuses me is how people who engage in liberal protests or activism will frequently be profiled as courageous, while people who engage in conservative protests or activism will be treated as "controversial" (this is always the word used) weirdos, if not haters whose every assertion is questioned.
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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I think the word used was "deplorables"
May 24, 2018, 5:42 PM
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Baskets of them.
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All-In [42138]
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When she said that...
May 25, 2018, 8:39 AM
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That was the first time I thought she had a real chance of losing. One of the dumbest campaign moves in history.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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its been 2 yrs and you still take everything he says
May 24, 2018, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to Do you or do you not agree... ] |
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literally?
and you do know he says those things to set you snowflakes off purposely, don't you?
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All-In [28802]
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Can you at least recognize how ridiculous his statement is?
May 24, 2018, 3:34 PM
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Yeah, it's on Twitter, but a court just ruled he's not allowed to block anyone because somehow Twitter is an official public forum.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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but of course it is. i dont dispute that
May 24, 2018, 4:00 PM
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but to get all butthurt is funny and ridiculous. If you haven't noticed, he talks like a bunch of dudes tailgatin at a football game. i've said a lot of hyperbole in my life that is just hyperbole.
No, I dont really think people who drive 50 in the left lane, should be shot.
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Oculus Spirit [81890]
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Again, you are not the president speaking via an official
May 24, 2018, 4:04 PM
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platform.
You don't talk the same way whenever you're representing your company at work do you?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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again, if you haven't noticed
May 24, 2018, 4:14 PM
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he aint a conventional president. never will be. never will talk like one
but continue with the butthurt if you want
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Oculus Spirit [81890]
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Not sure where I portrayed I was butthurt, but cool.
May 24, 2018, 4:16 PM
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But keep deluding yourself too.
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All-In [28802]
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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All-In [31887]
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him not acting like a "conventional President" doesn't....
May 26, 2018, 10:41 AM
[ in reply to again, if you haven't noticed ] |
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mean he's not the ACTUAL PRESIDENT with all of the power and responsibility that comes with the office!!
The way he acts does NOT change the impact his words and actions have because he has the ability to follow through, or try to follow through, with things he says or suggests.
The bottom line is that many of his remarks are indefensible and to excuse them or neglect them just because "it's just the way he is" is irresponsible.
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Oculus Spirit [81890]
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Ah, the word of the president can now be interpreted however
May 24, 2018, 3:40 PM
[ in reply to its been 2 yrs and you still take everything he says ] |
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one pleases. That's how the Trump base has continued to thrive. He only means what he says when he means it, but whenever he says something he doesn't mean he was just trolling people.
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All-In [28802]
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It's also just dumb to allow the NFL product to be used...
May 24, 2018, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to I think they should be forced to stand if they are out there ] |
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to promote whatever political movement the players want to promote. Probably even some people who agree with what they're doing are annoyed by that. They should've squashed this a long time ago along those lines.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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All-In [28802]
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If he actually enacted that policy, maybe
May 24, 2018, 3:22 PM
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But the guy just spouts off all the time.
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All-In [42138]
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The problem, though, is he starts getting his followers...
May 24, 2018, 3:25 PM
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To believe it, too.
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All-In [28802]
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I don't like extreme rhetoric like that
May 24, 2018, 3:26 PM
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But I don't foresee a movement to have people who disrespect the flag or anthem deported, or a wave of violence against NFL activists.
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All-In [42138]
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Oh, I agree with you there.
May 24, 2018, 3:27 PM
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It's just quite disturbing to see our president constantly push such ideology.
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All-In [28802]
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It's disturbing to see our president.
May 24, 2018, 3:32 PM
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At this point, though, I don't even think it's worth paying attention to the stuff he says unless it's a widespread point of view that could end up in policy.
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All-In [31887]
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I agree, but we also shouldn't allow it to be spun....
May 26, 2018, 10:48 AM
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he said what he said and it was stupid. I'm not concerned at all that he is going to push for people that don't stand for the anthem to be kicked out of the country, but he is the POTUS and has to be held to a higher standard for a multitude of reasons.
I hope, more than I think I ever have politically, that he gets a serious challenge in the primary.
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Legend [18018]
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This thread is evidence about how dumb this issue is...
May 24, 2018, 4:29 PM
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I really have no idea how the issue of what NFL players do during a national anthem ever became such an emotional argument. Our country's emotional IQ has to be near the "eats glue" level. Just so, so dumb.
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All-In [48078]
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Thug athletes getting all uppity and aren't patriots...
May 24, 2018, 4:33 PM
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like Trump supporters.
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Legend [18018]
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All-In [48078]
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Well maybe you didn't know that....
May 24, 2018, 4:48 PM
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Barrack HUSSEIN Obama is a racist secret Muslim from Kenya who was working with the Muslim brotherhood to destroy AMerica. That's why he didn't have the pin on. Get with the program deweather.
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All-In [28802]
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Kaep got a lot of coverage initially
May 24, 2018, 5:42 PM
[ in reply to This thread is evidence about how dumb this issue is... ] |
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The other players started doing it. The whole point of what he was doing was to get coverage, wasn't it? And not all of that coverage needed to be positive, and not all of the reaction to that coverage needed to be positive. I think the NFL should've just told him that he wasn't out there to make political statements, but they allowed him to do it so they had to allow others to do it. At some point, that turned into the NFL looking like they endorsed what he was doing.
As far as it being emotional, what he's protesting is a pretty emotional issue. The way he protested was calculated to get at people's emotions, too, but the reaction a lot of people had probably wasn't what he intended. I really don't get the vindictiveness some people seem to feel about it, though.
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110%er [7026]
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110%er [6101]
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You don't know the definition of fascism
May 25, 2018, 4:08 PM
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It has nothing to do with patriotism.
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All-In [48078]
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It is often shrouded and under the guise of patriotism.
May 25, 2018, 4:16 PM
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It is radical authoritarian nationalism.
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