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Legend [18780]
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Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 9:11 AM
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And some are urging that he is.
In the same breath, many of you equate activism with Marxism and communism.
Do you some of you see the faulty logic of that?
You don't see a lot of marches and rallies in China, do you? The last one didn't go so well for people. Activism and free speech are what makes America what it is.
It's ok to disagree with the message but conflating activism with communism is plain stupid.
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Legend [19590]
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BLM is a Marxist organization. Antifa is a Marxist org.
Sep 9, 2020, 9:18 AM
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It is in their charter and on the websites.
To argue they are not is a hopeless conversation.
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Legend [18780]
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Re: BLM is a Marxist organization. Antifa is a Marxist org.
Sep 9, 2020, 9:40 AM
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Where does it say that BLM is Marxist in their "charter"?
Also, you do understand the antifa stands for anti-fascist right?
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CU Guru [1083]
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Re: BLM is a Marxist organization. Antifa is a Marxist org.
Sep 9, 2020, 10:25 AM
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https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
“ We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”
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All-In [43519]
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Is this how you define "marxism"?
Sep 9, 2020, 10:30 AM
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You may want to do some more research buddy.
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CU Guru [1083]
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All-In [43519]
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Just understand that abolishing family is not the
Sep 9, 2020, 10:50 AM
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vision of Marxism, rather it is a byproduct of what would happen with a certain class of people according to Karl Marx's philosophies.
I don't think ANYONE supports Marxism. It's just a negative political term being thrown around right now by those with extreme political views, most of which simply repeat the #### they hear without having the gumption to form their own opinions.
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Heisman Winner [111292]
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Re: BLM is a Marxist organization. Antifa is a Marxist org.
Sep 9, 2020, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to BLM is a Marxist organization. Antifa is a Marxist org. ] |
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ANTIFA does not have a website. BLM does not have a charter, or any mention of Marxism.
But I guess I am the stupid one for not believing these lies huh?
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: BLM is a Marxist organization. Antifa is a Marxist org.
Sep 9, 2020, 11:03 AM
[ in reply to BLM is a Marxist organization. Antifa is a Marxist org. ] |
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Antifa isn't an organization at all. That's just you and Sean Hannity and your beach towel.No idea how BLM is Marxist. I'm guessing that's more a term you throw around because you find black people scary.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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People conflate the Black Lives Matter movement with
Sep 9, 2020, 11:10 AM
[ in reply to BLM is a Marxist organization. Antifa is a Marxist org. ] |
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the "Black Lives Matter" Organization, which is a grassroots org that has officially coopted the name.
People can say "black lives matter," support the movement and the ideals behind it without being Marxists trying to close your church, make you marry a gay person, cancel your kid's little league, or whatever other kind of ######## you're hearing on Fox News.
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CU Guru [1574]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 9:37 AM
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If you read the article, you know that Trevor isn't joining the BLM Organization. Rather, as clearly stated, he is attempting to express love and support for his teammates and all who "feel oppressed" in our culture. What's wrong with that? I have very different views from Trevor, and very likely every other player on the team. But I'm 67 years old. Having graduated in 77, I've had 43 years of life experience to help improve my "view of life" dramatically. So rather than criticize this young man and his teammates, try to remember how you thought and felt as a college junior. In hindsight, I was a complete idiot about life and politics, though I thought I was the smartest guy on campus. So leave him alone and quit trying to "judge him." He's doing what good leaders do. He's giving of himself for his teammates. I wish my generation had done likewise. We didn't and our nation is in a mess as a result. So I'm grateful we have a quarterback who is capable of thinking beyond the next play. Go Tigers!
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Legend [18780]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 9:42 AM
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Well said. People here are calling Trevor a Marxist, and this an incredibly stupid thing to say.
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Orange Blooded [2233]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 10:37 AM
[ in reply to Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist. ] |
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If they feel so oppressed they should take a trip over to Afghanistan and see how the Taliban treat people. Also see how the Afghan women are treated compared to the men. Things have gotten better for women over the years but still aren’t where they should be. Yes things could be better but black people aren’t oppressed.
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Orange Blooded [2233]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 10:59 AM
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Hey person who down voted me why don’t you post a reply so we can talk about it. I’d love to hear your reasoning behind actual oppression and people who live in a free country and could start out with nothing and then work there butt off like Oprah, Robert F. Smith, David Steward, Michael Jordan, Jay-Z and be a billionaire. Guess these people all managed to not let oppression keep them down even though they’re black.
Message was edited by: Clemson_country89®
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist. ] |
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Or maybe they should just do the perfectly American thing where they protest racial injustice. I don't think they need to go to Afghanistan to grasp that there is very real injustice in this country. Maybe many of them have been to Afghanistan on various deployments and wonder why black men have less chance of getting shot dead by Afghan police than black men do here.
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Orange Blooded [2233]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 11:25 AM
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Haha I just got back from Afghanistan and if you go outside the wire and are American you have a good chance of being attacked no matter your skin color. I found and article that said 7.3% of all living Americans have served or are serving in the military but that seems pretty high to me. I doubt it many if any of them know what it’s like to be over there or Iraq.
So question for you. If an officer has a gun pulled on you are you going to do what they tell you? Also would you get into a car that has your children in it and put there lives at risk as well? I understand some of these death could have been prevented by officers having more training or other officers stepping in. At the end of the day though you also have to put blame on people who don’t listen and chose not to follow the orders they were given. It isn’t and oppression thing is a not listening and following orders thing.
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Letterman [263]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 9:41 AM
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I love Trevor and will try to support him as best I can. But part of caring for someone is pointing out when they are heading down a dangerous path. I don’t think most people have any issue with most of what he’s come out for -listening and loving his teammates, suppirting equality, etc is all great. However, I think he (and much of the country) has been duped by BLM. They have taken a self evident statement that no one would argue with and used it as a Trojan Horse to push the most destructive and evil societal changes imaginable. Still love him and think his intentions are good, but he and others need to do their homework before they come out supporting such a malicious group.
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Legend [18780]
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I respect what you are saying....
Sep 9, 2020, 9:45 AM
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Whatever you think of BLM, I guess we will have to agree to disagree that they are Marxists. I believe they are activists and have every right to protest.
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All-In [43519]
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Here's the problem.
Sep 9, 2020, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist. ] |
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He has publicly stated he simply wants to provide support for others in relation to stopping racial injustices.
Many of you equate that simple fact to him supporting BLM.
There is a difference between supporting every stated comment by the actual BLM organization and saying the words Black Lives Matter.
Then those that are made uncomfortable by the concept of working together towards stopping racial inequality somehow convert all of this into TREVOR LAWRENCE WANTS MARXISM.
The idiocy and ignorance around here is unbelievable. Unless I've overlooked it, I've not seen one single instance where TL has said he supports the BLM organization.
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Oculus Spirit [90699]
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Balm..BLM co-founder states that she & partner are Marxists, gays & revolutionaries!
Sep 9, 2020, 10:09 AM
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Don’t know where you’d find these facts but maybe a Wiki check would bring it up.
She escaped to Cuba from U.S. after having broken the law while other partner was involved in a famous killing here in the states.
Both are felons, it appears.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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"Don’t know where you’d find these facts but..."
Sep 9, 2020, 10:14 AM
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###?
It is better to remain silent...
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All-In [43519]
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Sleepy Bill, let's try this again.
Sep 9, 2020, 10:15 AM
[ in reply to Balm..BLM co-founder states that she & partner are Marxists, gays & revolutionaries! ] |
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1. Read what I posted. It is below again for your convenience.
2. Think about it.
3. Respond directly to that without spewing rhetoric that is not relevant to the conversation.
He has publicly stated he simply wants to provide support for others in relation to stopping racial injustices.
Many of you equate that simple fact to him supporting BLM.
There is a difference between supporting every stated comment by the actual BLM organization and saying the words Black Lives Matter.
Then those that are made uncomfortable by the concept of working together towards stopping racial inequality somehow convert all of this into TREVOR LAWRENCE WANTS MARXISM.
The idiocy and ignorance around here is unbelievable. Unless I've overlooked it, I've not seen one single instance where TL has said he supports the BLM organization.
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Letterman [263]
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Re: Here's the problem.
Sep 9, 2020, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to Here's the problem. ] |
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I don’t think anyone actually believes Trevor wants Marxism and I agree that acknowledging and supporting the phrase black lives matter is not necessarily supporting the BLM organization- although I do think even the phrase is a little redundant and obvious. The problem is that this organization has coopted a good cause or phrase, but they actually have pretty ill intentions for this country that have absolutely nothing to do with protecting black lives (and actually work counter to protecting lives in many aspects). And yes the leaders of the organization are almost all self avowed Marxists and disentigrationalists who would love nothing more than to see this country burn to the ground. The point is that people need to be fully aware of what they are supporting (or sending money too). History has proven that its easier than you might imagine for a people to hop on a good old slogan campaign train with a sinister conductor, and ride that train right into an abyss (or concentration camp). Someone with as much influence as Trevor who is an icon among his generation need to be particularly careful who and what they stand for or promote. Again, I love him and the rest if the Tigers and support their intent and forgive them the ignorance that we all had when we were that age. I want this to be constructive criticism, but also leave no doubt that this is a very slippery slope with potentially dire consequences.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Here's the problem.
Sep 9, 2020, 12:42 PM
[ in reply to Here's the problem. ] |
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https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/jul/21/black-lives-matter-marxist-movement/
This is as BLM friendly as a review of whether it is a Marxist organization or not can be. Two of the three founders are self identified Marxists. One in an interview. One in her press bio. One used the term "trained Marxists" when discussing the operational structure and goals of BLM.
The article conflates whether individuals who support BLM are Marxist with whether the organization is Marxist. The choice of names was brilliant. Who is going to publicly disagree that black lives matter. But all the publicity it generates when people support the cause eventually funnels itself into very real funds into the very real hands of the very real Black Lives Matter Global Network, a non-profit organized in the state of Delaware. And those funds, whatever is not consumed as pure graft by it's organizers (which is exceedingly common in non-profits of all persuasions) is used to pursue Marxist goals.
There is plenty to disagree with about people knee jerkingly dismissing anyone who expresses sympathy with the cause. But sticking your head in the sand or spreading misinformation will do little to further your position.
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All-In [30764]
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Dig into the blm
Sep 9, 2020, 10:04 AM
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I don't think many understand what they are signing up for.
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All-In [27366]
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So, what you're really sayin' is that America is great
Sep 9, 2020, 10:05 AM
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because we're allowing Marxists and Communists to burn down cities to try to produce a government like China where no group even has the right or ability to even say they want to live in a government like America?
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Legend [18780]
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Not at all....
Sep 9, 2020, 10:18 AM
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free speech and protest are rights. That's what I am saying.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 10:39 AM
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Calling out an injustice does not make someone an activist. Prescribing a treatment and then setting out to enforce it is what makes makes someone an activist.
Petitioning the government over a grievance is about as fundamentally American as you can get. It is basically the FIRST thing in the bill of rights. You know, fundamental liberties. I am just waiting for the protesters to expand their rights into a well organized militia. Boy howdy then.
Many folks here, I am assuming they are coots, feel like if they do not like the message that someone has, then they need to feel personally responsible for shutting that message down. THAT is activism.
Refusing to watch someone with a different viewpoint is activism (relatively lazy but "activism"). Someone kneeling for one reason is "protest" not activism until there is a prescription.
There is some great great cognitive dissonance here!
Where I like to shake my head is that a lot of the "pro" law and order folks would likely be the first to start frothing from the mouth, refusing to cooperate types if you replaced "police officer" with IRS agent or code enforcement officer. Total 180 degree turn in the opinion of that intrusion. A government agent is a government agent regardless of the department. Somehow folks can't shake that one must be weary of all government intrusions.
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CU Guru [1754]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 10:52 AM
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Hopefully soon we will have football to talk about instead of micro-analyzing words. Meh...who am I kidding.
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Scout Team [178]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 11:08 AM
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Sometimes you have to be careful of the appearance you project because it may overrule your words. To wear a BLM shirt and stand in front of a big BLM curtain could very well lead someone to believe you support the BLM org. If you don't think it is a maxist / communist org go google NYPOST Interview Patrisse Cullors June 25 2020. Here are some of her words from the article.
“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.
“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,”
The center, which describes its philosophy as “an urban experiment,” uses grassroots organization to “focus on Black and Latino communities with deep historical ties to the long history of anti-colonial, anti-imperialist, pro-communist resistance to the US empire,” according to the outlet.
It also expresses its appreciation for the work of the US Communist Party, “especially Black communists,” as well as its support for “the great work of the Black Panther Party, the American Indian Movement, Young Lords, Brown Berets, and the great revolutionary rainbow experiments of the 1970s,”
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All-Conference [447]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 11:17 AM
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First thing I want to say is that Trevor is not only a leader on Clemson's football team, let's face it, he was this year's face of college football before the pandemic and this racial strife we find ourselves embroiled in, and he still is today. His performances on the field command that position in today's media driven world.
That being said, this doesn't feel so different than the upheaval this country went through 50 years ago or more. Riots in the streets because change was needed. National Guard roaming the streets and college campuses, racial strife and an unpopular war and president. With the exception of the war, this feels very similar, so being an old fart, I am taking a lot of this as this country simply going through another metamorphysis of sorts. Change didn't happen overnight in the late 60's, but it happened, and the same will bear itself out now. The causes are not wrong, but the methodology gets out of whack when people take to the streets with agitators from both sides trying to fan the flames.
I think everyone was horrified at George Floyd. Whether or not he was guilty of anything, we witnessed a murder in real time. I could not watch that and not be shaken at what I was watching, and I'm not particularly politically motivated in any way, shape or form. I know what is right and wrong in my mind and live accordingly. George Floyd was not guilty of a death penalty offense.
My parents didn't take to the change at the end of the 60's very well, as a lot of parents didn't. Our way of thinking was completely different than theirs, and I think we are simply seeing the next wave, or progression of that. Parents now are not seeing eye to eye with the world views of their kids. There are going to be arguments and some more suffering, but when, not if this country makes it through this, it will be stronger and better than ever, and it is and always has been the most free place on earth since its inception, and I don't believe that is going anywhere. That is why people are still climbing walls and fences trying to get in.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 11:55 AM
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Here is a big over beer conversation:  There is one big difference here.... and it kinda has to do with Boomer politics. Don't want to get to far into those weeds but I think it comes down to how boomers had to wrestle power away from the previous gen and now how the younger gens are trying to wrestle power from the boomers. Cycles, etc.
Say what you will about those born before 1945, despite any flaws, they were always willing to "get things done" over "winning". I guess it was a condition of their dep[ression experience and WWII. Prime example would be LBJ. While they would would hesitate to "share" power, they often still consider, at some level, the "other" political spectrum. For them, the CRA was more important tan "winning" even if LBJ strongly dissented from his base. You would never see than today. For them (the Silent/Greatest), the other political party (ie Reps, Dems) were more valued than the Russians, etc. However, "inclusion was granted but you had to toe a line or sacrifice something. To combat the power exclusion, boomers used "winning"
Current Boomers politics places "winning" over "getting stuff done". Current government values that the political party must "win" even if it shuts down the government, does not do any meaningful change etc. Thus the current PARTIES value "winning". The red hatters explicitly say "winning", dems say "electable". Same thing. This is a prime "boomer" political response and the 1994 conservative revival was an example when Newt said "even when we lose we win" when boomers finally wrestled power away. Since then, there has been little to no advancement in any government action. Tax policy, housing, transportation, environmental, etc have all been stagnant. The ACA was the closest thing to a "new" thing and we saw how that went.
Now the interesting thing is how the post-boomers will, eventually wrestle power away. The trick is they won't in the same vein as boomers, but rather you will see a greater focus on "not winnign" in some camps. There is a bigger emphasis on coalition building and accomplishment - something that might not sit well with a lot of boomers as "winning" and keeping the "others" away is a big deal. Thus why you see politicians saying nicer things about Russians than the opposite party. Part of the protest issues now are in part of an boomer win and do-nothing approach (because doing something might compromise winning). Basic police policy/approach/ and the justice system is really a 1980s policy item (nearing 40+ years old) with a 1990s filter on it. Combating crack/gang issues was a bigger deal and to address that we saw an hyper militarization of law practices. This does not work in a post-information era where hyper violent issues are less present but the hyper policing can take a new level with available tech. Thus, the "crime" is not eliciting the "proper" response. Thus, you are seeing an issue with "law an order" which is the do nothing to stay winning camp and those that want meaningful policy change. However, with those between 30-40 (which is about the of millennial), you are likely going to see a shift of that block that would rather coalition build with the GenZ - post millenniums (under 25) or GenX than the boomers which they have been previously aligned. Should be interesting to see if Boomers have much of a block (on either side) in their house. I think this is going to be a bigger trend issue moving forward. It seems that the post millennial are going to be as focused on "accomplishment" and policy wins as the boomers were on winning control.
Sorry, long rant as policy, generational politics is kinda my dig.
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Letterman [263]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 12:19 PM
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Although I don't often agree with your point of view on posts, I do find this particularly well thought out and an intriguing conversation. While it may bore the bar, I would certainly take you up on this conversation over a beer without a mask one day. ??
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All-Conference [447]
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Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist.
Sep 9, 2020, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: Trevor said he wasn't an activist. ] |
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I am at the tail end of the boomers, and I can tell you, what we are seeing is them begin to lose control, and if folks don't think that is a fly in the ointment, they are wrong. We are no different than our parents other than we have already "fought" on the other side of the argument in the 60's.
You are right. This is the beginning of a changing of the guard, so to speak, and yes, this would make a great conversation over a couple of beers sometime.
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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