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Starter [374]
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Time to Pack It In
May 19, 2012, 5:15 PM
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Getting swept by WF is the final blow to this 2012 baseball fiasco. This team should just go to Greensboro, play the required 3 games and hang it up. They're not worthy of post season play past the conference tourney. Enough embarrassment for one year. Never thought I'd see the day that our baseball program would be this inept. Very sad considering the once proud program they represent.
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All-In [38514]
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^^^Not a true fan^^^***
May 19, 2012, 5:19 PM
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Starter [374]
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Re: ^^^Not a true fan^^^***
May 19, 2012, 5:27 PM
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Easy to say, but who the heck are you to question my allegiance? You have no idea how much I've invested in following Clemson baseball.
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All-In [38514]
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Because a true fan would never suggest that any team
May 19, 2012, 5:32 PM
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"hang it up".
Nobody needs question your allegiance, you posted it publicly for all to see.
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Starter [374]
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Re: Because a true fan would never suggest that any team
May 19, 2012, 5:36 PM
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Allegiance may be defined in many ways. My point is that this team has no reason to expect any opportunity to play for anything past next Saturday. They have not earned it! Your point is well taken, however.
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All-In [38514]
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As long as there's a chance I'll hope for it.
May 19, 2012, 5:39 PM
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Doesn't mean I'm necessarily happy with what has happened.
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Legend [18133]
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tdrake®
May 19, 2012, 6:20 PM
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you have my vote for mayor of Clemson.
I like a man who is not afraid to stand on principle.
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Legend [19197]
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Question: How does this one year = demise of an entire
May 19, 2012, 5:20 PM
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program? I think 1 bad year does not = demise of an entire program. We went 6-5 in football in 1980 and 12-0 in 1981.
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Starter [374]
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Re: Question: How does this one year = demise of an entire
May 19, 2012, 5:26 PM
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Your opinion. You're entitled to it. Just realize that I've seen several thousand Clemson baseball games in the last 42 years and this is an all time low over that period in terms of talent, execution, fundamentals, and virtually every other aspect of what it takes to field a team capable of playing for a championship. Anything less than that is unacceptable in my view.
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Legend [19197]
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And next year? Pretty good?***
May 19, 2012, 5:27 PM
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Starter [374]
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Re: And next year? Pretty good?***
May 19, 2012, 5:28 PM
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I'll respect your opinion. But upon what is it based?
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: And next year? Pretty good?***
May 19, 2012, 6:21 PM
[ in reply to And next year? Pretty good?*** ] |
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losing scheafer(sp?), and i presume kieboom, i have a feeling we'll struggle mightily next year. if anyone see's things different, please clue me in.
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CU Guru [1464]
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And Pohl, Felder, Brady, and Haseldon.***
May 20, 2012, 10:25 AM
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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All-In [38514]
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Really?
May 19, 2012, 5:36 PM
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"Time to pack it in"
"hang it up"
You agree with this? I don't, it's a quitter's attitude.
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All-TigerNet [10401]
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In fairness, we are just, I think, three years removed from
May 19, 2012, 5:29 PM
[ in reply to Question: How does this one year = demise of an entire ] |
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not making the NCAA tournament. Point being, this the second medicore year in the last 4 or so years.
That used to never happen with Clemson baseball.
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Starter [374]
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Key word is mediocre..........
May 19, 2012, 5:31 PM
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.....that should never happen with the resources with which this program has been blessed.
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Orange Blooded [2635]
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If you want to be fair, look at the whole picture
May 19, 2012, 5:41 PM
[ in reply to In fairness, we are just, I think, three years removed from ] |
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I spent some considerable time analyzing the history of Clemson Baseball under Leggett. Please read the following post if you are concerned that this is a "low point" for Clemson Baseball. It shows how statistically we are very cyclical and this is part of the cycle:
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12162302
Simply put - we are young and this season has been typical of the pattern of Clemson Baseball for a long time. Next year and even more so the year after next should be when we are expected to be near the top again.
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Starter [374]
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You've missed the point.
May 19, 2012, 5:48 PM
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I don't need statistics. I've watched them religiously for over 40 years and studied the game of baseball as well. There are nuances that the casual fan will never identify or understand. Sorry, but facts often get in the way of aspirations. Nobody on this board wants them to be successful any more than I do. But it's time to face reality.
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Orange Blooded [2635]
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Is this team outstanding? No... I'm not arguing that
May 19, 2012, 6:43 PM
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However - the idea that we should just "pack it in" and quit flies in the face of sports in general. Please name all of the great coaches in history who think its a great idea to quit. You can even go outside of baseball if you want.
Is this team great? Absolutely not - they are average
Is this team likely to advance far in the NCAA tournament? Probably not - although winning a Regional is not out of the question IMO.
Should we expect better seasons out of the Clemson program? Absolutely. And I'm telling you based on statistics that the next two seasons will be better.
Did you want to quit in 1997 (which this season is very close to)? Hopefully not because 2 of our top 5 seasons came not long after that (2000-2002)
Did you want to quit in 2003 or 2004 (our worst two year stretch)? Hopefully not because you would have missed 2006.
Did you want to quit in the much more miserable season of 2008? Hopefully not because you would have missed 2000.
If you want to quit this season, chances are you are going to miss an outstanding season in 2014 and a very good one in 2013.
This is a young team that struggles at times - that is quite evident. When they are more seasoned they will be much better just like all of our previous young teams have done.
"Winners never quit and quitters never win."
-Vince Lombardi
I certainly hope this team never "packs it in" and quits.
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Starter [374]
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I feel your passion........
May 19, 2012, 7:26 PM
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You make some excellent points, but your generalizations are off base. This is not a young team, relatively speaking. That excuse is overused. Look at the starting lineup. Seniors - Stoltz, Felder, Pohl. Juniors with significant experience - Shaffer, Keiboom, Brittle. Every starting pitcher (except Gossett) has prior experience. "Seasoning" in my opinion is not the issue. Regarding my "pack it in" suggestion, please understand it is for this season alone..............not the long haul. You don't have to quote Lombardi to me, I watched his teams play. Did you?
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Orange Blooded [2635]
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I feel yours as well
May 19, 2012, 8:54 PM
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My main place I disagree with you is I don't believe in "packing it in" under any circumstances. And I appreciate you clarifying that it is "for this season only."
I think your point on experience is well taken... the starters aren't necessarily all young, but this is not a deep experienced team either. There are good arguments both ways:
Yes 6 starters are juniors and seniors, but only 4 of them were on the team last year and two switched positions. The two that didn't both play the same position, meaning only 1 starter in the field was consistent last year to this year as far as position. There are definitely some starters that should be better based on their experience, but there are also some that are progressing well and are just young.
As far as pitching goes - two starters in particular I expected more out of this season (Leone and Meyer). That is the biggest disappointment for me. Had they progressed as expected, we'd probably have at least 5 or 6 more wins and that would make a huge difference.
I'm disappointed with the season just as you are. We probably should have been 6-8 wins better and 2 of those were missed this weekend. Playing @Wake is a thorn in our side and has been for awhile. Frankly this weekend was embarrassing. However, the way we played against Florida State should show us that this team is not predictable. We could fall flat on our faces and be 2 and done in the regionals. We could also win a regional.
I respect your passion and disappointment in this team. I simply disagree with ever giving up or quitting. However - I imagine in the long run your "pack it in" expression is more of an expression of how disappointed you are than truly subscribing to giving up... because if you truly believed that you wouldn't be going to more games as you said you plan to do. I hope that a few weeks from now there will have been at least one more very positive note on this season that makes you thankful that this team doesn't follow your disappointed utterance.
And no, while I respect those before my time, Lombardi fits into that category as he died before I was born. Just pointing out that great coaches don't believe in quitting.
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Starter [374]
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Well stated, my friend........
May 20, 2012, 10:50 AM
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........I applaud your excellent analysis. Please understand that my suggestion WAS mostly one of frustration as you suggest.
I agree with you, quitting is never an option - it's the only thing that anyone can do with 100% success and result in being a 100% failure! With that said, one must accept reality at times when it's obvious that the necessary ingredients are probably not in place to achieve unrealistic expectations. Bluntly, this team just ain't got what it takes - physically, mentally, fundamentally, etc. Worst of all, they seem to have very little fun playing the best game that has ever been developed in the history of athletic competition.
I love them just the same, and I'll be there with them in Greensboro. Thanks for your excellent points. They are well taken!
Go Tigers!!!!!!!!
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Legend [19352]
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CU Guru [1464]
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Rock Defender [52]
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Re: Question: How does this one year = demise of an entire
May 19, 2012, 6:58 PM
[ in reply to Question: How does this one year = demise of an entire ] |
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Because it is not just one bad year. We have been in a decline more or less for the last 5 years. Over the last 5 years we are probably the 5th or 6th in number or wins in the ACC. As fans, we should not be content with that. I think most of us feel that Clemson baseball is better than middle of the pack in the ACC. But right now that is who we are and who we have been for the last 5 years. Yes, we had a great run in the postseason 2 years ago. However, just as one bad year like this year does not define a program, neither does one good tourney run. Over the last 5 years we have been a good team but certainly not a great team. Maybe it is time for a change ?
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Commissioner [919]
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Re: Time to Pack It In
May 19, 2012, 6:17 PM
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I here you dude. I think we broke the record for put outs of our own players for a season. However our kids on this team are a bunch of fine young men. I do not understand why it has been so painful. Am tired of not recruiting from our own state ie tanner english
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Fan [51]
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Re: Time to Pack It In
May 19, 2012, 6:23 PM
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The way were playing we could win the whole thing or fail miserably! Who knows? But that is the life of a Clemson fan!
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Commissioner [919]
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Re: As long as there's a chance I'll hope for it.
May 19, 2012, 6:24 PM
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I agree. We can get hot. I expect they will be fired up for acc tourney and regionals. This is a very young team bench wise and we have more than our fair share of 200 hitters
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Team Captain [450]
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Re: As long as there's a chance I'll hope for it.
May 19, 2012, 6:37 PM
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It is very depressing, you beat #1 FSU and lose to a sorry WF team 3 in a row! Bottom line is we suck!
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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***yawn***
May 19, 2012, 6:47 PM
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Starter [374]
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Re: ***yawn***
May 19, 2012, 7:29 PM
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nice input.........if you're not interested there are other threads to explore!
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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If its OK with you....
May 19, 2012, 6:49 PM
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I'd prefer the Tigers play in the ACC tournament, do the best they can, and see where the chips fall.
You certainly don't have to watch or keep up with the games
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Starter [374]
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Re: If its OK with you....
May 19, 2012, 7:35 PM
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I have reservations in Greensboro Wed thru Sat. I'll be there in person for every game, just like I've been for many years past. This isn't personal to the players. I know many of them and many of their parents. They seem to be fine young men. Again, reality is not always pleasant!
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All-In [49613]
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Naw: We're just saving our bats for the Big XII tourney!***
May 19, 2012, 7:31 PM
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