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All-In [43977]
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The sad state of Clemson basketball
Mar 20, 2017, 11:48 AM
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With the news this morning about Brownell returning next season, after Clemson supposedly negotiated a buyout yesterday only to have Will Wade play us for what he considers a better job, we are in quite a predicament. Wade reportedly views us - his alma mater and the place where he began his coaching career - as a mid-major job in a major conference with no upside. That, my fellow Tiger fans, is sad.
The most frustrating part of all of this is that Clemson is 100% to blame for having such a reputation. We have minimized basketball as a distant second priority in the athletic department for over 100 years, and people know it. Coaches know it. Recruits know it. Yet we expect to fool them when we try to improve the program. We expect to attract a great coach who doesn't see the truth. We expect that coach to somehow convince top recruits that Clemson is actually a great place to play basketball. We aren't fooling anyone, and we can't expect to.
Now we are left with a coach who is likely accepting a revised contract to work for an AD who doesn't believe in him. He either fails next year and we are looking for a coach 12 months from now, or he excels and is retained. I always viewed Brownell as a guy who loves Clemson and is very loyal to us, but if he is successful here, why would he stay if presented with another job? At this point, our loyalty to him will likely not pay off.
So then we will be looking for another coach, either because Brownell was fired or because he used Clemson to get a better job. This is truly pathetic! It is time to get serious about basketball. My thoughts:
1. Stop treating it as a distant second at Clemson in terms of importance. Yes, football is our most important sport, but basketball should be 1B. The two can co-exist as priorities and both be successful.
2. Don't let these facility upgrades be a once every 15-20 year (or 30 year) occurrence.
3. Stop paying mid-major coaches a mid-major salary at Clemson while expecting them to provide major results. We don't pay Brownell that much relative to other ACC programs. We need to seriously think about this when we hire our next coach. Our approach of hiring cheaply doesn't work, because good coaches either lack interest to begin with or use Clemson as a stepping stone.
4. Start giving basketball what it needs in terms of assistant salaries, support staff, recruiting needs, etc.
I have little confidence that the needed improvements will occur. This is why I originally advocated for Brad staying another year, because I have zero faith that Clemson is serious about basketball. We are likely going to keep doing what we have always done but expecting better results, all the while crying "woe is us" when we can't get a good coach or win more games.
Part of me wishes Brownell had told us to screw ourselves when we decided to keep him after all. Maybe it would be the wake up call our administration needs. I do not see how they are going to see it otherwise.
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Scout Team [196]
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This is spot on.....
Mar 20, 2017, 12:10 PM
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We must support Basketball!
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Starter [354]
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Joined: 5/16/01
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Have tried to be a Clemson basketball fan since
Mar 20, 2017, 12:50 PM
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I first stepped on campus in 1977. Seems that Clemson basketball, though we have had good years occasionally, will always find a way to reside in the land of the mediocre. I wondered why until my career led me to live in NC for awhile (thank goodness I'm back)! One of the most profound things I noticed during my nomadic adventure is that the entire state of North Carolina CARES about basketball. REALLY CARES! That's just not the case in the state of SC, which can be further validated by the overall general history of the basketball programs in both of our largest college institutions. The converse was true when you compare football following between the two states. Personally, I'm ok with that. It's nice to be competitive, but if we're not, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I suspect there are a quite number of folks that live in the state of SC that feel the same,... believe that's the largest source of our mediocre performance in basketball.
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Head Coach [768]
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You nailed it with NC and basketball...
Mar 20, 2017, 1:08 PM
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While growing up there and attending middle school and high school, classes essentially stopped for ACC tournament time. We went to school those days mind you, the lesson plan was simple - watch ACC tournament basketball. Every class had a TV and that TV was tuned into the tournament, and the teachers were watching and pulling for their teams (because most of them went to a NC college!). Same thing would happen for the NCAA tournament when NC teams made it.
Being a basketball fan in general, I loved it. Being a Clemson fan, it was kind of bittersweet and even as a kid I learned the mantra "Wait til football season".
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CU Guru [1898]
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Looked up salaries
Mar 20, 2017, 1:18 PM
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Legends $8M to $6M
Our benchmarks
Williams, VT - $2.6
Hamilton, FSU - $2.25
Mike Brey - $1.75
Others
Virginia, NC State - $2.2 to $2M
GT - Pastner, $2.0M
Miami - Karratha - $1.3M
So Brownell's started at $1.55 and escalates to $2M.
So what's the number? $2M to start?
I think Wade leaks were by his camp to get him a higher salary
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All-In [43977]
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I am confident Mike Brey makes more than $1.75 million
Mar 20, 2017, 2:08 PM
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I'm not doubting what you saw - I've seen the same - but as a private school, Notre Dame does not have to release the salary details. My guess is that he makes significantly more than that, especially with the success he has had there and the strong basketball history at Notre Dame.
Miami is also a private school, and I would be very surprised if their coach only makes $1.3 million when it's all said and done.
Our fans like to complain that Virginia Tech and Florida State are also football schools which have "passed us by" in basketball. They have also put their money where their mouths are and paid a respectable salary. Virginia Tech pays Buzz $2.6 million and FSU pays Hamilton $2.25 million.
I'm not saying that we should pay Will Wade $2.75 million, but if we are serious about basketball then we should expect to pay someone $2-$3 million a year. Otherwise, we are expecting to somehow find a great coach to come here for a low salary, work miracles, and then hopefully stay here when other programs come calling. And we wonder why we have NEVER hired and retained a great coach in our 100+ year basketball history!
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All-In [27160]
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Re: Very well said. Anyone with any perspective knows that
Mar 20, 2017, 2:42 PM
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the administration has never been serious about basketball. And the decision to retain Brownell simply underlines the point.
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110%er [7916]
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Re: The sad state of Clemson basketball
Mar 20, 2017, 2:55 PM
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Given that resources are finite (some don't grasp this but is a fact) why would we invest in basketball instead one of our sports which have national standing? The hurdles with basketball are many with no guarantee of success even with additional investment. The ROI would be much less risky if we put the money in football, baseball, soccer, golf, or softball.
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All-In [43977]
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You want to put money into sports which lose money
Mar 20, 2017, 10:59 PM
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instead of the basketball program, which makes money?
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Orange Blooded [2843]
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Everybody Just Needs To Chill Out
Mar 20, 2017, 3:05 PM
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I know the trolls are disappointed there wasn't a firing. They were foaming at the mouth for a good firing and hiring a former basketball manager to take over an ACC program. That would have been a really dumb move. All of that Will Wade talk was nothing but internet trolls flapping their gums. I prefer to look at this way. A good coach with good players had an extremely frustrating season, the likes of which we have never seen (even at Clemson). No one is more frustrated about the way the season unfolded than BB. But BB will fix it. I am confident BB will get it done. There will be improvement next season. People who say they will never buy another basketball ticket will come back when the winning starts. And if you people don't want to get on board and support the basketball program there is football, football recruiting, and spring football. That will keep you busy the entire year.
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Tiger Cub [13]
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That's actually a really good post right there.***
Mar 20, 2017, 9:45 PM
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Legend [17506]
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Lots of good points ... all starts with the right coach
Mar 20, 2017, 9:28 PM
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Who that is ??? It's like Dabo ... you don't know until a coach proves himself with recruiting, game managment and program leadership. No small feat.
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110%er [6460]
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Re: The sad state of Clemson basketball
Mar 20, 2017, 9:50 PM
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A good coach can win at almost any program. Look what Tarkanian did at UNLV. Before everyone screams he was dirty, the NCAA ultimately cleared him of most of the charges.
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