|
Replies: 32
| visibility 1,121
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17372
Joined: 2/1/99
|
Average family income up $5k under Trump?
Oct 20, 2019, 1:35 PM
|
|
Submitted for your hole-poking/minimizing pleasure...
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/15/its_a_middle-class_boom_141497.html It's a Middle-Class Boom | RealClearPolitics How much of the monetary gains from the Trump economic speedup have gone to the middle class? If you ask Democratic senators and presidential candidates Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris and Bernie...
Curious as to how this is misleading or not material?
Select quotes from the article:
The median or average-income family has seen a gain of $5,003 since Trump came into office. Median family income is now (August 2019) $65,976, up from about $61,000 when he entered office (January 2017).
Under George W. Bush, the household income gains were a little over $400 in eight years, and under Barack Obama the gains were $1,043. That was in eight years for each. Under Trump, in less than three years, the extra income is about three times larger.
...
The tax cut also added an additional $2,500 to a typical family of four's after-tax incomes. So after taking account of taxes owed, the income of most middle-class families is up closer to $6,000 in the Trump era.
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Let me put my lunatic lib hat on
Oct 20, 2019, 1:51 PM
|
|
Thanks Obama
Cause they're working 6 jobs now
Crooked number crunchers are Russian assets
He stile the money from The poor and gave to the rich
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: Average family income up $5k under Trump?
Oct 20, 2019, 4:08 PM
|
|
Costs up 6k.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17372
Joined: 2/1/99
|
Link?***
Oct 20, 2019, 4:14 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: Link?***
Oct 20, 2019, 6:23 PM
|
|
Reality..life. Cost of real estate goes up 10% a year generally. Thats how I look at my investments. Cost of everything is going through the roof.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9785
Joined: 4/27/13
|
rent is probably up
Oct 20, 2019, 6:39 PM
|
|
but diesel, gas, food are all relatively cheap, eggs/milk are extremely low under trump
GoTrump!
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9785
Joined: 4/27/13
|
diesel by itself is 20% lower under trump vs odummy***
Oct 20, 2019, 6:49 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
So how did we survive Bush's and Obama;s 8 years...
Oct 20, 2019, 7:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Link?*** ] |
|
each. Income for household went up 100 under Bush and 4-500 under Obama. That's 8 years each. Trump hasn't had a full three years yet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: So how did we survive Bush's and Obama;s 8 years...
Oct 21, 2019, 7:06 AM
|
|
Thats cool. He is almost keeping up with cost of living increases.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97719]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64859
Joined: 7/13/02
|
You know the repo payments the Fed is making.... I have a
Oct 21, 2019, 7:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Link?*** ] |
|
Feeling they're buying down the rate they just lowered. Think the last injection was $100 billion. I hope I'm not right about that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9785
Joined: 4/27/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30155
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Thoughts...
Oct 20, 2019, 4:47 PM
|
|
1. Stephen Moore isn't exactly an impartial writer: https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2019/03/22/why-stephen-moore-is-unfit-for-the-fed
"It appears his instincts are informed less by sound principles of economic policy than by whatever he thinks most likely to please Mr Trump."
2.) He doesn't provide links to support his claims.
3.) In almost every one of these type of articles, I rarely (if ever) see what specificsof Trump policies are tied to causing the strong economy. They rely solely on correlation of events for their arguments.
4.) Economy has been growing for 10 years and the tightening of available workers for open jobs seems like a very likely reason for any increased wages that Moore, for some reason, doesn't bring up.
5.)  according to this the median income started to spike in 2015. So, much like with the growth of the economy, this trend started before Trump.
6.) Farmers, Truckers, Manufacturing and Miners have gotten worse under Trump.
7.) https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/19/business/economy/workers-strike-economy.html
I hope incomes continue to rise for the middle class, but I'd need more than just the word(s) of Stephen Moore to believe that it has anything to do with Trump.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9785
Joined: 4/27/13
|
i wish trump would relax the trucking regulations
Oct 20, 2019, 6:15 PM
|
|
not sure why he has not, low hanging fruit
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111584]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73755
Joined: 9/10/03
|
pointless
Oct 21, 2019, 10:19 AM
|
|
in ten years here will be no more truckers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9785
Joined: 4/27/13
|
a lot of freight cost could be saved in ten years
Oct 21, 2019, 4:16 PM
|
|
lower freight means lower prices for food, food for children
why do you hate the chilren?!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Wrong.
Oct 20, 2019, 7:05 PM
|
|
It's 6K if you consider the tax cuts. Compared to Bush and Obama, Trump is the master at MAGA.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2693]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3411
Joined: 7/3/07
|
Boomers collected more social security
Oct 20, 2019, 11:32 PM
|
|
The average income gain is largely a demographics story, as America’s population ages and baby boomers enter their traditional retirement years. Social Security and Medicare alone accounted for 38% of the increase in government transfers to the middle class.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17372
Joined: 2/1/99
|
I’m not clear on what you’re saying. It sounds like
Oct 21, 2019, 7:47 AM
|
|
the article is saying that income has increased. Are you saying that families are making five thousand dollars more per year from government retirement programs?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2693]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3411
Joined: 7/3/07
|
Yes total income stats are not indicators of success
Oct 21, 2019, 9:18 AM
|
|
There is a ton of distortion in income statistics because it includes a variety of income, such as investment income, capital gains, social security, etc. If you look at wage income, adjusted for inflation, has it increased or decreased since the year 2000?
https://usafacts.org/reports/facts-in-focus/the-changing-middle-class?utm_source=usnews&utm_medium=partnership&utm_campaign=2020&utm_content=text
"Despite earning less from wage income, the middle 20% makes more in total income than in 2000 when including transfers from government programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP (food stamps), and unemployment insurance.
The increase in transfers to the middle 20% may be driven by the demographic changes we’re seeing in this cohort. An older population means that a greater share is receiving payments from Social Security and Medicare. These two programs drove 38% of the increase in transfers to the middle class."
Anyone can cherry pick data to support their claims and I'd say based on his article, Stephen Moore is a master cherry picker.
From Sentier Research
Estimates of household income from the survey are based on a single question that asks respondents to report the total income received by the household during the 12-month period prior to the survey month. The definition of income used in the survey includes the following:
Wages and salary
Nonfarm self-employment income
Farm self-employment income
Social Security and Supplemental Security Income
Interest, dividends, net rental income, and royalties
Cash public assistance (federal and state)
Unemployment compensation and workers’ compensation
Retirement income from pensions, annuities, other retirement plans
Veterans’ pensions and compensation
Child support and alimony
Other cash income excluding capital gains or lump sum, one-time amounts
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
This is a good thing.
Oct 21, 2019, 7:15 AM
|
|
I don't know why we always tie these things more to Presidents and not to Congress. It seems like the latter has more influence over the economy, since they actually pass laws, like the tax cuts, etc. But insomuch as the President has influence, then these numbers are obviously a positive for him, and increase the likelihood that I would vote for him. (The likelihood of which is admittedly still small)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
When the dems have named a candidate Trump's...
Oct 21, 2019, 9:57 AM
|
|
popularity will soar. When it's medicare for all including illegals, open borders, free college at taxpayers' expense, higher taxes on the working middle class and a green new deal crushing our economy with intent to redistribute our wealth to China, India and other third world countries voting for Trump will look like the only option.
Just don't forget what they are promising now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
OK.
Oct 21, 2019, 10:11 AM
|
|
Sorry, I fail to see the connection to my post, so I'm not sure how to respond.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
The POTUS election usually determines the majority party...
Oct 21, 2019, 10:48 AM
|
|
in congress. It's those first two years when a POTUS has his/her way in congress because those elected and those who kept their seats owe the voters who supported the POTUS for electing them. This created the harmony that got Obamacare passed.
It also created the harmony which saw Trump get his tax cuts and military buildup which created the job growth. Those are the reasons we have this economy. There is a solid link between who is elected POTUS and the composition of congress who write the laws.
If one of the dem candidates are elected they will coat tail politicians who will support them. If we had a middle of the road candidate there would be a choice. These candidates offer no choice, imo.
When Romney ran against Obama I the overall difference seemed slight. Same with McCain. Next year the election will be a choice between polar opposites. The differences will be pronounced, There will be no gray areas of agreement between the candidates.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
I see, thanks.***
Oct 21, 2019, 11:06 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [347]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 1062
Joined: 7/1/19
|
Green new deal- not a real plan and is nothing more than a
Oct 21, 2019, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to When the dems have named a candidate Trump's... ] |
|
talking and won’t ever come anywhere close to being implemented. Free college tuition- would never actually get passed. No one with a chance of getting nominated wants open borders the way the Pubs describe them. But hey, keep pushing that Rush/Fox narrative.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [347]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 1062
Joined: 7/1/19
|
Green new deal- not a real plan and is nothing more than a
Oct 21, 2019, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to When the dems have named a candidate Trump's... ] |
|
talking and won’t ever come anywhere close to being implemented. Free college tuition- would never actually get passed. No one with a chance of getting nominated wants open borders the way the Pubs describe them. But hey, keep pushing that Rush/Fox narrative.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9435
Joined: 12/18/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83119]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80157
Joined: 11/29/99
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1878]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 1864
Joined: 1/22/12
|
Re: Average family income up $5k under Trump?
Oct 22, 2019, 11:18 AM
|
|
So wages have barely kept up with inflation, cost of goods has skyrocketed due to a half baked trade war, and we are supposed to be happy?
Over Obama’s entire two-term tenure, wages were up 4.2%.
They have increased 2.4% since Trump took office, from an average $308.21 per week to $315.74 per week in May, the most recent figures available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
I feel like I'm being gaslighted. Either that, or we are supposed to celebrate Trump being 60% as good as Obama at raising wages?
Source: https://www.factcheck.org/2019/06/are-wages-rising-or-flat/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15492]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18413
Joined: 12/10/14
|
Re: Average family income up $5k under Trump?
Oct 23, 2019, 2:41 AM
|
|
That's great! But how you figure that's because of Trump? He's had nothing but scandal after scandal since he took office.
Not to mention inheriting a booming economy when he took office.
(yey, go trump....it's finally raining in Texas....trump did that...yey trump)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17372
Joined: 2/1/99
|
There have been a lot of good counterarguments on this thread
Oct 23, 2019, 7:49 AM
|
|
to the notion that median family income has gone up the way the original article indicates. I’ll research all of them at some point because I find it interesting. But If we did accept the original article as accurate, then I personally wouldn’t put much credence in the “yeah but that’s not because of Trump” refute.
When the economy slowly recovered under Obama, we were told that he should get credit, but for the life of me, I have never been able to identify a single policy of Obama’s that any economist ever said was a positive factor for economic growth. And that’s fine. Sometimes staying out of the way is the best solution for a POTUS. But no one would argue that under Trump there have not been numerous policies enacted that would have a direct impact on the economy. His trade involvement and tax reform are obvious. And I am told constantly how he’s deregulating anything and everything.
Plus, I’m confident you would give Trump all the blame if the economy went South.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15492]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18413
Joined: 12/10/14
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 32
| visibility 1,121
|
|
|
50
