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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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53-47 vote on tabling the rules' amendment to seek...
Jan 21, 2020, 5:39 PM
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further evidence and witnesses in Trump's impeachment trial. If I didn't know better I'd say this is pure politics.
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Legend [18003]
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every "yay" voter also took an oath of impartiality
Jan 21, 2020, 5:58 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I don't remember you complaining when the house voted...
Jan 21, 2020, 6:38 PM
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that way. Shoe on the other foot says nothing is right about the process
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Legend [18003]
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Why do you think the GOP is scared to call witnesses?***
Jan 21, 2020, 7:04 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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You’re really going to be mad when they
Jan 21, 2020, 7:08 PM
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Legend [18003]
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Why do you think the GOP is scared to call witnesses?***
Jan 21, 2020, 8:02 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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I just said
Jan 21, 2020, 8:16 PM
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110%er [6557]
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Re: I just said
Jan 21, 2020, 9:12 PM
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It's De Foxworthy...he don't care what you said.
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Legend [18003]
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Summary judgment would hurt the GOP's argument more...
Jan 21, 2020, 9:23 PM
[ in reply to I just said ] |
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https://www.lawfareblog.com/senate-impeachment-trial-call-witnesses-or-concede-facts
"If the Senate wanted to proceed as if this were a summary judgment matter, it would have to assume that those facts were all true. Senators couldn’t claim, for example, that the investigation was for legitimate reasons, not a personal, political favor. Nor could they claim that the scheme was at the direction of the president’s aides, rather than at his personal direction. The question would have to be whether, as a matter of law, a president can turn foreign policy to his own personal political interests—with Republicans having to argue that this is acceptable behavior."
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Rock Defender [53]
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I think they could just on the argument alone
Jan 21, 2020, 9:46 PM
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Legend [18003]
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Except allowing for what Trump did to go unpunished
Jan 21, 2020, 10:03 PM
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is equally dangerous to the future of the country. That's why witnesses (from both sides) is needed to fully understand what happened. Not doing so is just as partisan as what you are claiming the other side is doing with much harsher results. Allowing a President to use foreign policy for his personal political benefit is a dangerous precedent to set and these GOP senators should do everything they can to make sure they are on the right side of history. It's in their best interest to allow witnesses. It's amazing they can't see that.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Dems aren’t helping themselves with these piecemeal
Jan 21, 2020, 10:32 PM
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Legend [18003]
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Agree to disagree on that.***
Jan 21, 2020, 10:58 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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How do you think that's helping them?
Jan 21, 2020, 11:26 PM
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Legend [18003]
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Keeps reminding them about the recorded history of the trial
Jan 21, 2020, 11:38 PM
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but much of it is for show, that's true.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I don't think they are scared.
Jan 21, 2020, 8:07 PM
[ in reply to Why do you think the GOP is scared to call witnesses?*** ] |
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I believe it's the same reason the house dems didn't vote to issue subpoena and wait on a judgement from the courts. The dems wanted to put the issue in the senate's end of the court as quickly as possible so they could make political hay. Pubs want it dismissed to lessen the damage to the pub party and its leader, Trump.
Imo the public is fed up with the impeachment rhetoric. Anyone who can't see the house impeaching without help from pubs and the senate finding Trump not guilty without help from the dems should be quickly able to conclude it's political.
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Legend [18003]
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Speaking of what the pubic is fed up with...
Jan 21, 2020, 8:58 PM
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/20/politics/cnn-poll-trump-impeachment/index.html
"Nearly seven in 10 (69%) say that upcoming trial should feature testimony from new witnesses who did not testify in the House"
McConnell also isn't against witnesses...
<###### async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">
It's interesting you bring up the courts, and while I agree with you that the dems partly didn't want to wait for the courts for political reasons, Trump's attorneys also argued to the courts that they should stay out of disputes between Congress and the President.
Which brings me back to the main question. Why are they working so hard to prevent witnesses from testifying and why fight against documents being released? What inference can we make from that fact?
But I do agree it's political. It's happening in a political theater and impeachment is a political enforcement. (Also important to another GOP popular talking point about impeachment needing to be a criminal "crime" which if your guy dershowitzsaid wasn't necessary in 1998).
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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What, a politician telling a lie?
Jan 22, 2020, 8:31 AM
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It's as if he stood before the camera and claimed to have evidence that Trump colluded with Russia to hack our democracy.
House dems didn't seek SCOTUS help to get witnesses because the SCOTUS would have told them to shove it. Now you expect Senate pubs to give them something the SCOTUS would refuse to give?
Every vote, start to finish in the house and the senate has been straight down party lines. For heaven's sake admit this is political and you just don't have 67 votes in the senate.
Try beating Trump at the polls, right?
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Standout [347]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Seriously?
Jan 21, 2020, 8:56 PM
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Legend [15730]
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It wasn’t a party-line vote, but every rep voted in line with their political needs.
Jan 21, 2020, 8:57 PM
[ in reply to The house didn’t vote that way (along party lines). ] |
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No dem voted against impeachment unless it helped them politically.
This is all political gamesmanship. Can we just get to the vote and be done with this theater?
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All-In [34518]
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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Pelosi has forced Senate Republicans to take full ownership
Jan 21, 2020, 6:04 PM
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of the cover up and sham trial of a corrupt president. They can't see past their noses.
Should be fun watching the longer term politics play out in the next election and beyond.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Pelosi has forced Senate Republicans to take full ownership
Jan 21, 2020, 6:24 PM
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Meanwhile Biden still gets investigated, and destroyed. Nothing changes.
Next time you want to impeach somebody try bringing some actual crimes instead of a charade designed for media talking points.
You had your chance at witnesses in the house hearings. Trump did not. Suck it Schiff.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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Have Republicans now conceded the Senate to Democrats
Jan 21, 2020, 6:32 PM
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in 2020.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Have Republicans now conceded the Senate to Democrats
Jan 21, 2020, 6:49 PM
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I can’t imagine the embarrassment of being a democrat today. It must be awful.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Have Republicans now conceded the Senate to Democrats
Jan 21, 2020, 6:52 PM
[ in reply to Have Republicans now conceded the Senate to Democrats ] |
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in 2020.
You would think that should be the concern.
Trump is a volatile crisis-maker...Bill Clinton was reckless where he put his ###### but disciplined politically; he kept that winning smile going publicly even as he apparently melted down behind the scenes, according to multiple folks connected to the Clinton camp...and Clinton never stopped doing the "country's work"...meaning, he did his best to pretend the impeachment wasn't happening and kept wheeling and dealing like all was normal even as the dragnet almost closed in on him. Which was exactly why Clinton emerged politically stronger...at least over the short term.
Over the long term the Dems took a massive political black eye for defending him when it actually does appear he was plenty guilty of both violating his oath of office and obstruction of justice - small potatoes, actually, compared to what Trump is currently accused of doing, but if you stare coldly at the facts Clinton should have been impeached.
Trump assuredly should be impeached - though he won't be - and the long-term price the GOP is going to pay for owning his sins is going to be incalculable. The younger generations loathe the guy and now the GOP is tethering themselves to him. Team Red could end up losing Gen X, the Millenials, and Gen Z in one fell swoop.
My genuine fear is that the backlash, when it comes, is going to knee-jerk us all the way to socialism, which gives me hives.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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What has Trump done worst than obstruction of justice?
Jan 21, 2020, 6:58 PM
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BTW, Clinton was impeached but not removed because removing him from office would have been wrong. Perhaps he should have resigned, as did Nixon. I'm glad it went as it did.
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Rock Defender [53]
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110%er [6101]
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Legend [18003]
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Not exactly true (shocking coming from you, I know)...
Jan 21, 2020, 6:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pelosi has forced Senate Republicans to take full ownership ] |
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TRUMP: “I have been denied the most fundamental rights afforded by the Constitution, including the right to present evidence, to have my own counsel present, to confront accusers, and to call and cross-examine witnesses.” — letter to Pelosi.
THE FACTS: This is a distortion. In the House proceedings, Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee that drafted the articles of impeachment invited Trump and his lawyers to take part and ask for witnesses. The witnesses who did come forward were questioned by Republicans on the committee as well as by Democrats.
Earlier hearings by the House Intelligence Committee did not invite Trump or his team. Those hearings were like the investigative phase of criminal cases, conducted without the participation of the person under investigation. But lawmakers from both parties questioned the witnesses. Trump complained about being shut out of that but when the Judiciary Committee hearings were opened to his team and him, he declined.
also, about "actual crimes"
TRUMP: “How do you impeach? You had no crime.” — remarks Saturday to conservative student conference.
THE FACTS: This frequent defense by Trump and his Republican allies is misleading. The constitutional grounds for impeachment do not require a statutory crime to have been committed.
In setting the conditions of treason, bribery or high crimes and misdemeanors, the Founding Fathers said a consequential abuse of office was subject to the impeachment process they laid out.
https://apnews.com/a79178f3676982531c104e11d6041f42
Alan Dershowitz in 1998 also didn't think it had to be a "crime":
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/01/20/alan-dershowitz-1998-doesnt-have-to-be-crime-to-impeach.cnn
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/21/us/politics/barr-impeachment-abuse-of-power.html
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Legend [18003]
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Okay, I have no idea what happened here with the links
Jan 21, 2020, 7:00 PM
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lol
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Okay, I have no idea what happened here with the links
Jan 21, 2020, 8:14 PM
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lol
It's a bug with the "preview" button. Every time you do it, any links you've embedded into the text get duplicated.
Annoying.
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Legend [18003]
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ah, thanks***
Jan 21, 2020, 8:36 PM
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110%er [6557]
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Pelosi has forced Senate Republicans to take full ownership
Jan 21, 2020, 7:06 PM
[ in reply to Pelosi has forced Senate Republicans to take full ownership ] |
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Chuckston T-Man
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Pelosi has forced Senate Republicans to take full ownership
Posted: Jan 21, 2020 6:04 PM
Reply
of the cover up and sham trial of a corrupt president. They can't see past their noses.
Should be fun watching the longer term politics play out in the next election and beyond.
lmfao at you dems. just think a mere 5 years from now and the greatest prosperity this country has ever seen you will be rid of trump. then we can really elect our first woman president.
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110%er [6155]
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This is a bombshell. . . a real consitutional crisis.***
Jan 21, 2020, 6:07 PM
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110%er [8885]
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glad mccain is no longer a senator
Jan 21, 2020, 8:25 PM
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would be in front of every camera helping democrats to impeach
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Bad, very bad news.
Jan 21, 2020, 8:28 PM
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Pubs are sticking together and sticking it to dems by voting down every resolution Schummer brings to the floor. So much for changing the final voting to secret ballots.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I understand they could still come back to the
Jan 21, 2020, 8:37 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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This should be fun.
Jan 22, 2020, 8:42 AM
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I can't wait to see Schiff's reaction when Senate pubs vote that down again. They aren't going to present anything new during their 24 hr presentation. Everyone in the senate knows what that presentation will be, maybe some new rhetoric but the basics will be the exact same.
'I Suppose, presume, I heard so and so say and I believe,' is not evidence. The only evidence dems have is the transcript which has been public for a while and no one has changed their minds about removing Trump yet.
They only need 67 votes to remove Trump. The can't get 4 milk and toast pubs yet.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Yeah they only got Collins on one vote
Jan 22, 2020, 12:36 PM
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