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Replies: 106
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Lot o points [155494]
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pretty shameless if true.***
Sep 22, 2020, 10:40 PM
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CU Medallion [56590]
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It’s ok when you’re on the right side of history.***
Sep 23, 2020, 12:18 AM
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: pretty shameless if true.***
Sep 23, 2020, 1:13 AM
[ in reply to pretty shameless if true.*** ] |
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What is shameless is a Governor creating a Poll Tax for political advantage and going against the will of the people on a Ballot Initiative 2/3rds of the voters agreed with. But I guess being poor and unable to pay court fees should exclude you from voting? Is this your opinion?
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All-Conference [434]
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All-In [41891]
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Why?
Sep 23, 2020, 7:53 AM
[ in reply to pretty shameless if true.*** ] |
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That's the law in Florida. Felons who have served their time have the right to vote if they pay their fees.
Do you feel a person shouldn't get another chance if he/she has served the time?
"Under Amendment 4, which Florida voters passed overwhelmingly in 2018, felons who have completed their sentences would have voting rights restored. Republican lawmakers then moved to define what it means to complete a sentence.
In addition to prison time served, lawmakers directed that all legal financial obligations, including unpaid fines and restitution, would also have to be settled before a felon could be eligible to vote."
https://apnews.com/1bc5a068ccfc864854a186c143fc39cb
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Lot o points [155494]
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You think Bloomberg suddenly has a hardon for felon's
Sep 23, 2020, 8:08 AM
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rights? Furthermore, you think he'd throw this initiative together if Florida felon's heavily trended Republican? That's what's shameless, the completely transparent motives.
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All-In [41891]
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Re: You think Bloomberg suddenly has a hardon for felon's
Sep 23, 2020, 8:15 AM
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Nope. That's why I said below that if this is just to hate on Bloomie, have at it.
But he's not breaking any laws, and felons who have served their time and punishment deserve the right to vote.
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Lot o points [155494]
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Ok, so we agree then, because I don't find the act of
Sep 23, 2020, 8:20 AM
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felons voting to be shameless.
This action by Bloomberg though is basically him pulling up to the projects in a 15 passenger van and a fistfull of $20's to head to the polls, with half the board subsequently lauding him for his concern for the poor.
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All-In [41891]
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Re: Ok, so we agree then, because I don't find the act of
Sep 23, 2020, 8:27 AM
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Yeah, I get it. He's not doing it from the goodness of his heart (at least, I don't think he is). But it is what it is.
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All-In [31811]
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If I read this correctly, it said he gave $5MM to pay the...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:28 AM
[ in reply to Ok, so we agree then, because I don't find the act of ] |
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fines of 32k felons. That works out to an avg of $156.25/felon. Which leads me to wonder how much impact is this really going to have? Seems like if a felon really cared about voting, many of them would have paid their fines already.
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Lot o points [155494]
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It's just more "poll tax" hyperbole.
Sep 23, 2020, 8:37 AM
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Some in this thread would have you believe that these minor fines are the equivalent of making these people into a permanent serf class.
Whether people like it or not, the Constitution clearly leaves it to the states to decide how to handle criminal activity and its impact on voting status, and expecting someone to pay their monetary debts incurred as a result of their criminality doesn't seem like an unreasonable portion of their "debt to society" that so many are throwing around.
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All-In [31331]
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Re: It's just more "poll tax" hyperbole.
Sep 23, 2020, 8:44 AM
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The problem that I've seen described, and this has been written about pretty extensively, is that there is no system in Florida for people to know if and how much they owe in court fees. Court records are scattered, and it has been demonstrated as being exceedingly difficult to sort out what you owe or if you've paid. Simultaneously, if they vote without paying said fees, they have committed a felony.
Other states, Kentucky for example, have made a website that people can use to see and pay any fees they may owe. Florida, perhaps deliberately as a current lawsuit alleges, has made it very difficult for people.
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Lot o points [155494]
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If that's true, then it should definitely be fixed.
Sep 23, 2020, 8:48 AM
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I'm ok with making people pay what they owe, but it also shouldn't be playing hide the peanut to be able to do so.
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All-In [31811]
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Agreed, but also begs the question how did...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:56 AM
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the organization he donated to know who owed what and if it was settled or not?
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All-In [31331]
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Re: Agreed, but also begs the question how did...
Sep 23, 2020, 9:00 AM
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You can apparently request a clemency investigation. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know much about court records and all that crap, but it is possible to learn what you owe, obviously, but the point is that it is quite difficult.
Bloomberg isn't the first person to donate towards this end of voting rights restoration. Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Kevin Hart, lots of other big names have donated to groups aimed at helping to sort out the fees. Those affected are, no surprise here, predominantly African Americans.
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Lot o points [155494]
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"No Surprise". jeez, David Duke,
Sep 23, 2020, 9:01 AM
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why don't you just say that you think that all criminals are black?
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All-In [48752]
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I'm pretty sure it's because of a friend of mine who
Sep 23, 2020, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Agreed, but also begs the question how did... ] |
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used to work here. She's also the person that got rid of the aforementioned box in Columbia.
But she works with a non-profit that works on getting released inmates back to being productive members of society and I would guess they have a lot of lawyer volunteers that research what these folks owe all over the state.
You pull a rap sheet and then get local lawyers in various counties to research the fines they owe there. Everyone submits what they found and you have a total that needs to be paid.
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All-In [31811]
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From the other comments, it sounds like FL is...
Sep 23, 2020, 1:19 PM
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more difficult then other states for determining this?
Is there some process where the state formally gives felons their rights back? I'm just having trouble understanding how they would know if they can give the rights back or not too.
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Heisman Winner [137634]
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All-In [48752]
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These are mostly ######## court costs Obed...
Sep 23, 2020, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to It's just more "poll tax" hyperbole. ] |
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some are fines, sure, but the court costs that get tacked on usually dwarf the actual criminal fines.
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All-In [48752]
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Except many states, including SC...
Sep 23, 2020, 11:40 AM
[ in reply to If I read this correctly, it said he gave $5MM to pay the... ] |
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make you put a code on your license for certain crimes - usually including all felonies - that lets everyone know you are a convicted felon and that can make it really challenging to find work. At the non-profit I worked for we successfully got the city of Columbia to remove the "convicted of a felony" check box from city job apps, but that's just a drop in the bucket.
It's hard to make voting a priority when that 150 bucks will feed your family for a month or more.
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All-In [31811]
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I get that. I actually took the felony question off...
Sep 23, 2020, 1:25 PM
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of our company's general job application when I took over last year.
However, we do run criminal background checks still for certain staff/management positions.
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All-In [26968]
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Re: You think Bloomberg suddenly has a hardon for felon's
Sep 23, 2020, 8:22 AM
[ in reply to You think Bloomberg suddenly has a hardon for felon's ] |
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We can't know his motives...that's between him and God, ultimately. But the action itself is noble, to me, as long as he isn't doing it only for certain felons.
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Lot o points [155494]
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Sorry Prod, that's a cop-out.
Sep 23, 2020, 8:32 AM
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His motives are as plain as day, and it's willful naivete to pretend otherwise.
His actions here are woefully incongruous with his heavy-handed stop and frisk policies in NYC, if we are to believe he is a voice for mercy on society's criminals.
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All-In [26968]
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OK, even if his motive is bad, I like the action.***
Sep 23, 2020, 8:46 AM
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All-In [26968]
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Hopefully a Republican person will do it also
Sep 23, 2020, 8:47 AM
[ in reply to Sorry Prod, that's a cop-out. ] |
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So we can even out the motives while getting more people voting.
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Lot o points [155494]
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I'm willing to at least be honest about it on the flip side
Sep 23, 2020, 8:49 AM
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and say that the reasons for enacting the law are probably equally shameless.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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From what I read, that law is trash even though the party th
Sep 23, 2020, 11:12 AM
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that I mostly align with enacted it.
Does that mean that I'm NOT a partisan hack?
Good for Bloomberg.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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again...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: You think Bloomberg suddenly has a hardon for felon's ] |
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when a few days ago he said he was going to pour $100 mil into the Florida race, we can have a little bit of an inkling into what his motives are.
Now, we certainly cannot completely know his motives in this singular act, but I believe he would think this will benefit Biden.
But then again, pubs are the criminals so maybe the criminals will vote for the pubs.
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All-In [34081]
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: You think Bloomberg suddenly has a hardon for felon's
Sep 23, 2020, 10:12 AM
[ in reply to You think Bloomberg suddenly has a hardon for felon's ] |
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The nerve of that guy, shamelessly re-instating people back onto the voting rolls who were shamelessly taken off in the first place.
The GOP shamelessly suppressed those votes fair and square first, darnit! No fair somebody comes along and un-suppresses them back.
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Lot o points [155494]
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10/10 snark
Sep 23, 2020, 11:31 AM
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0/10 relevance to point being discussed.
You're learning about the flow of this place man, I like it.
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All-In [48752]
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I'm sure the overall trend would be towards dems, but...
Sep 23, 2020, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to You think Bloomberg suddenly has a hardon for felon's ] |
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I'm not as sure as you and Bloomberg. Florida's prison population is very disproportionately black, yes, but it's still less than 50%. If there is a trend among poor white folks I would guess that leans more towards Trump than Biden.
I could definitely be wrong but it doesn't seem as straightforward as everyone seems to think.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Why?
Sep 23, 2020, 10:16 AM
[ in reply to Why? ] |
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Uh oh...... looks like this is already under investigation
[Under Florida law] it’s a third-degree felony for someone to either directly or indirectly provide something of value to impact whether or not someone votes. So the question is whether or not paying off someone’s fines and legal obligations counts as something of value, and it clearly does. If Michael Bloomberg was offering to pay off people’s credit card debts, you would obviously see the value in that.
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All-In [46762]
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Now THAT is shameful***
Sep 23, 2020, 11:41 AM
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110%er [5637]
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Re: Why?
Sep 23, 2020, 3:13 PM
[ in reply to Why? ] |
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if THEY pay their fines.
Not if a pathetic yankee dumba$$ lib pays them.
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: Why?
Sep 23, 2020, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to Why? ] |
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That is what is so f'd about the SCOTUS ruling on this, Court fees are not punitive measures, this is a Poll Tax pure and simple and they went with DeSantis on this decision 5-4, with ginsberg still able to hold a gavel.
This is why I really have doubts about a fair election if this thing gets kicked up to the supreme court in december with neither candidate conceding in a tight election They will go with their team, period. They did in '99, and they will do it again.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I know Faux News doesn’t count but
Sep 22, 2020, 10:43 PM
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Legend [19865]
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Re: sorry, real news isn't covering this...
Sep 22, 2020, 10:58 PM
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He's a criminal mastermind ain't he?
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: sorry, real news isn't covering this...
Sep 22, 2020, 11:03 PM
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yeah basically Franc, it is only the Jim crow states in the south that have this law on their books, meaning former convicted felons that did their time in Jail cannot vote. They lifted it after the last election because there was an initiative on the Ballot in 2016 and won by an overwhelming amount. it did not take DeSantis long to throw a wrench into all of this because it could easily flip this state blue. So basically the same people that voted Desantis into office, also voted to restore the voting rights of felons that served their sentences. Now they want a Poll tax, the SCOTUS did not see it this way.
https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/07/16/supreme-court-allows-limits-on-felon-voting-in-florida-1301508
and in addition, let's say your state passed a law that people with outstanding traffic fines have their voter eligibility revoked, is that fair? Should being poor be a reason to prevent a person from voting? Some of these people owe 10s of thousands in fines and will never be able to pay it off.
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All-In [34081]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Looks to me like they say the same thing***
Sep 22, 2020, 11:32 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Re: Agreed that the NY Post is not real news.
Sep 23, 2020, 1:08 AM
[ in reply to Agreed that the NY Post is not real news. ] |
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https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/
says New York Post is RIGHT-CENTER BIAS
says Axios is LEFT-CENTER BIAS
I read both versions of "reality"
Can't see where they are really claiming anything different.
Seems Bloomberg's actions are questionable. I know Bloomberg is great and everything for things like telling fat people how many ounces of a soft drink they can have, but think a similar action by a similar operative by the other side would be frowned upon.
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All-In [48752]
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perhaps...
Sep 23, 2020, 1:20 AM
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but fines and court fees are insane. People commit a crime with a fine of 500 bucks and find that they have to pay thousands in court fees and fines. multibillionaire paying those fines in some cases doesn't seem that weird. However, should you discover that he only pays those fines for black folk but refuse to do so for your average right wing mass murderer, do let us know.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: perhaps...
Sep 23, 2020, 1:33 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Yeah, I get that supposed angle...
Sep 23, 2020, 2:59 AM
[ in reply to perhaps... ] |
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Bloomberg paying these fines in Florida out of the goodness of his heart.
Has nothing to do with the election being tight in Florida.
Message was edited by: franc1968®
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: Yeah, I get that supposed angle...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:19 AM
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of course not. but it also not like he is handing out a questionnaire to see who they are voting for prior to paying their fines. That would be would be an issue.
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All-In [34081]
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Re: Yeah, I get that supposed angle...
Sep 23, 2020, 9:20 AM
[ in reply to Yeah, I get that supposed angle... ] |
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Not letting the felons vote in the first place is an election tactic. The nonprofit is fighting voter suppression.
I recently helped a family member expunge a felony conviction from when they were 18. The guy is in his 40s. (No, not Murc.) It's amazing the red tape you have to deal with. Denying voting rights until all that stuff is sorted out is nothing more than voter suppression.
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All-In [41891]
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But you also said...
Sep 23, 2020, 7:51 AM
[ in reply to Re: Agreed that the NY Post is not real news. ] |
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That the rest of the media weren't reporting this, when in fact, they were. I believe WaPo and AP broke the story.
You exhibited your own bias without fact checking.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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All-In [41891]
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Ah, bruh.
Sep 23, 2020, 8:06 AM
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Bing?
Bing.
No.
Never Bing.
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: Ah, bruh.
Sep 23, 2020, 8:21 AM
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Have you tried AOL's search engine yet?
https://search.aol.com/![]() The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.
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All-In [41891]
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Not yet! I got a nifty CD in the mail, though.
Sep 23, 2020, 8:28 AM
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Thinking of signing up for AOL this weekend.
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Legend [17999]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Whew!!! Now it’s official***
Sep 22, 2020, 11:54 PM
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110%er [7167]
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Booooo people voting!***
Sep 23, 2020, 1:17 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Lol***
Sep 23, 2020, 3:00 AM
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All-TigerNet [12233]
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The only solace I will have if the Marxist radicals
Sep 23, 2020, 5:38 AM
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succeed in taking over our country is that their arrogant mega-rich financiers (Bloomberg, Soros etc.) will be the first to have their wealth confiscated - just before the Marxists rip it from the rest of us.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: sorry, real news isn't covering this...
Sep 23, 2020, 6:11 AM
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That's great. Good for him.
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All-In [26968]
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I think that's great. I'd like to hear more of that.***
Sep 23, 2020, 6:20 AM
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: sorry, real news isn't covering this...
Sep 23, 2020, 6:39 AM
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The continuing story here, franc, is voter suppression.
These guys have done their time, but the state continues to find ways to ensure they don't vote because they know it disproportionally affects people of color - which in turn means one less vote for Democrats.
You do not win this way. The right to vote is the right to vote, period. Not just when it's convenient for your "team."
Either you're committed to this principle or you're not, and this BS the GOP continues to do of trying to choose their voters instead of allowing the voters to choose their elected leaders is one of the things that drove me from the party.
One person. One vote. Why is this so freaking hard?
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All-In [26968]
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I'm generally against the idea of loss of voting rights
Sep 23, 2020, 6:43 AM
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as a punitive measure for crimes.
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All-In [41891]
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Why do people say...
Sep 23, 2020, 7:48 AM
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"Real news" or the "MSM" isn't reporting something without Googling to see if the statement is true?
NY Times, WaPo, NBC, CNN, Forbes, ABC, et al, have this.
Googling ain't hard, Franc.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I guess the same reason people...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:02 AM
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think that is the biggest issue with the thread
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All-In [41891]
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Re: I guess the same reason people...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:05 AM
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It's not, but it was an unfair and lazy jab at the media coupled with the main post. There isn't really an issue with the story, either, unless it's just hating on Bloomberg, which I'm down with.
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Hall of Famer [20512]
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Re: I guess the same reason people...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:06 AM
[ in reply to I guess the same reason people... ] |
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What, that Bloomberg is paying the fines of people who have basically been subjected to what amounts to a poll tax the state knows they can't pay - that was imposed expressly for the purpose of suppressing their vote because the people being affected likely won't vote the way those who wrote the law want them to vote?
That's the definition of a slippery slope.
I actually commend Bloomberg for putting his money where his mouth is.
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All-In [26968]
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Why would this be viewed as a bad thing?
Sep 23, 2020, 8:08 AM
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It seems like a very nice thing to do for people. To me, it's little different from giving money to Meals on Wheels or Habitat for Humanity.
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Lot o points [155494]
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All-In [26968]
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I like the movie, but won't be watching
Sep 23, 2020, 8:13 AM
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the clip you linked.
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Lot o points [155494]
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It's safe man. No swearing, nudity, and only the slightest
Sep 23, 2020, 8:16 AM
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whiff of innuendo. The IT department at Bob Jones might not even filter it.
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All-In [26968]
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Just can't really watch videos at work.
Sep 23, 2020, 8:16 AM
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Not really an issue of content. Just logistics.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Let me help you out, brother.
Sep 23, 2020, 11:15 AM
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[on Ricky's new 'corporate sponsor']
Susan : "Me" is you. Because it's just you out there. We don't have any corporate sponsors, we don't have any fancy team owners. We have you. And this car, and this cougar, which symbolizes the fear that you have overcome. It's all there for you.
************************************************
Glenn : Ricky, this car is like your Excalibur, the mighty sword that Sir Lancelot used to bring together the Knights of the Round Table, until Lancelot betrayed him by laying with his queen...
[whispers suggestively]
Glenn : ... in the biblical sense.
Ricky Bobby : Okay, Glenn. Everything cool that Susan said, you wrecked it.
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All-In [26968]
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Thanks, although I admit
Sep 23, 2020, 1:13 PM
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I have no idea what that has to do with this thread. I'm missing some joke, obviously.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Not sure either. Possibly it was posted because he feels
Sep 23, 2020, 2:58 PM
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that you (or your tigernet persona, more accurately) reminds him of that character from the movie.
Maybe it's a stretch...
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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hey I'm cool...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:21 AM
[ in reply to Why would this be viewed as a bad thing? ] |
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1) The race in Florida has started to swing toward Trump especially because of his influence with the Cuban voters.
2) Bloomberg, prior to this, has already said he was going to push 100 mil of his own money into Florida.
3) Now the timing of this. Does it even appear questionable in regards to laws dealing with paying for votes? If not, it's all good.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't think it would be paying for votes
Sep 23, 2020, 8:24 AM
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Unless he's giving money to people in exchange for votes. Just because the fine is paid, doesn't mean the person is forced to vote for a certain candidate, or even vote at all. If he's putting qualifications like that on it, then I'm against it.
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All-In [41891]
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Re: hey I'm cool...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:31 AM
[ in reply to hey I'm cool... ] |
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I think most can agree the motive here is just political, not altruistic.
I'm not sure the way to keep things like this from happening.
It's kind of like millionaires who dump their money into state political parties with poor reporting requirements, knowing that the money will get funneled to federal candidates and thus get around campaign finance laws. It's not technically illegal, but we know it's dishonest. And it's quite bipartisan.
I once interviewed Peter Angelos, owner of the Orioles, about all the money he dumped into North Dakota's Dem party. He had never been there nor did he have any connection. But ND had some of the worst reporting laws in the country. He just kept telling me, "I think North Dakota Democrats are doing some great things out there so I support them."
He knew where that money would wind up.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I was wrong in my original snarky statement...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:39 AM
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I don't like google, so I typically use bing and duckduckgo...
however, what you state is my issue with it.
I think it can be rightfully argued as well that the 2018 law requiring the felons to pay their fines is unjust and disenfranchising.
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All-In [41891]
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W T F is duckduckgo?
Sep 23, 2020, 8:42 AM
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I'm scared to type that in. That sounds porny.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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it's great...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:47 AM
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no tracking.
Have you seriously not heard of it?
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Lot o points [155494]
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All-In [41891]
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Google. That's it.
Sep 23, 2020, 1:05 PM
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Coke. Not Pepsi. Duke's. Not Hellman's. Jack Daniel's. Not George Dickel. Chrome. Not Internet Explorer.
This is the way.
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Lot o points [155494]
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It can be argued, but is it?
Sep 23, 2020, 8:46 AM
[ in reply to I was wrong in my original snarky statement... ] |
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Can you keep your business open if you owe taxes? Can you get your driver's license back if you have multiple unpaid tickets?
Sure, it can be argued that voting is a constitutional right and those other's aren't, but the 14th amendment is pretty clear that the states get broad leeway on how to handle criminality and voting.
"Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State."
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All-In [46762]
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The Constitution doesn't guarantee the right to business
Sep 23, 2020, 11:47 AM
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or driver's licenses.
It guarantees the right to vote.
It's politicians from both sides that started putting unnecessary restrictions on that fundamental right
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All-In [31811]
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Wait, the Constitution does NOT guarantee the right to vote***
Sep 23, 2020, 4:16 PM
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All-In [41891]
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Sorry for another response...
Sep 23, 2020, 8:04 AM
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But is there a real problem here (unless it's just disdain for Bloomberg, which I understand). Florida law allows felons to vote so long as they have paid their fees. That's a good thing. If a person has done their time and faced their punishment, they should be afforded the rights of any citizen.
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Oculus Spirit [97633]
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Talk about a shotty return on investment
Sep 23, 2020, 8:35 AM
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How much are those votes worth? Does he expect us to be churning out Monopoly money soon? It appears so.
Here's $500 to pay off your lawyers fees, or whatever. Now I know you're not employed, and/or can't get a good job as a former felon, and will not make enough to pay taxes, if you're even employed, and/or you may likely cost taxpayers money for your food, clothing, housing, education, and healthcare....and you will probably be a net drain on tax revenue, so I'm going to give you this money to vote as I expect a marvelous return on this investment.
If our government is incapable of reducing spending, or balancing a budget, I'm all for limiting voting to those who are net contributors. The takers have no skin in the game, other than a vote for free ####. This doesn't end well.
Sorry...../endrant
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CU Medallion [55981]
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The "skin in the game" argument doesn't make sense.
Sep 23, 2020, 9:35 AM
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Some people don't pay federal income tax, but they still pay gas taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, tolls, miscellaneous fees and so forth. Not to mention there's more to politics than spending tax dollars and people should have a say in those issues.
Trying to break society down to "takers" and "makers" to justify disenfranchising voters is either ignorant or cynically disingenuous.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I didn't get that from Tiggity's post...
Sep 23, 2020, 9:45 AM
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It seems to me, and the point I got out of it, is I'm not sure the greatest need (or at least the first thing these "felons" are thinking about) is whether or not they can vote.
I think it is very similar to the mistake most evangelicals make in their attempt to proselytize.
In this instance, I'm not sure how many of these felons will actually vote now. Whether or not they vote is really only important if you need their vote. What is more important is whether they actually thrive in society and do not return to prison. Thinking that way, perhaps the millions of dollars invested in paying off their fines may have been better spent another way.
Message was edited by: franc1968®
I reread Tiggity's post and I get what you are saying about that.
I still think my point above is relevant to the issue.
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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All-In [26464]
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They will need some peaceful protestors .
Sep 23, 2020, 8:40 AM
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After Election Day when orange meanie wins again
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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Trump TV Network, Fox news to most of you...
Sep 23, 2020, 10:32 AM
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covered the story last night.
According to what one of Florida's past attorney generals said Florida has a law which reflects federal law making it a 3 class felony to give or receive any benefits in exchange of voting for or against anyone. He also said the website set up by Bloomberg states the reason for the funds was to help promote voting for Biden since the block of voters represented vote democrat 90-95%.
My first thought was that 90-95% of dems are in jail and we're down to having only 5% left to really Make America Great Again. BTW, that's a joke which I'm sure will bring plenty of comments so that the 5% not in jail can avoid the reality that Florida jails look just like the Democrat National Convention. 
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Trump TV Network, Fox news to most of you...
Sep 23, 2020, 10:45 AM
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Paying someone's fine so they can vote is not a crime though.
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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Re: Trump TV Network, Fox news to most of you...
Sep 23, 2020, 10:55 AM
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The website Bloomberg set up specifies that the effort is to get the felons to vote for Biden. No, this is a 3rd class felony in Florida and may be federally prosecuted under Rico laws. It's called organized crime when the left hand doesn't appear to know what the right hand is doing.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Trump TV Network, Fox news to most of you...
Sep 23, 2020, 11:17 AM
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He thinks felons will vote more for Biden. There is no crime in that. They can vote for whoever they want. Hard to believe the nutty things you will believe are crimes.
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All-In [26968]
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All-In [26968]
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This is a donation to a charity.***
Sep 23, 2020, 10:49 AM
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I mean, it's obvious that the money is not being given
Sep 23, 2020, 11:14 AM
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The larger the turnout the better for Biden. These people can vote for who they want though.
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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Re: I mean, it's obvious that the money is not being given
Sep 23, 2020, 11:51 AM
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You should read the law, review the website and consider that Rico laws are written such that one can claim ignorance yet still be convicted.
Are you saying you don't think Bloomberg, after committing 100 million dollars to Biden's campaign in Florida, isn't doing this to buy votes? If that's what you're saying, go ahead and stop beating around the bush.
I'm never coy with you, I am plain spoken, yea is yea and nay is nay.
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All-In [26968]
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He probably hopes it will increase the number of votes
Sep 23, 2020, 12:28 PM
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for Vice President Biden, sure. But that doesn't mean it's bribery or illegal. Paying to put an ad on TV has the goal of increasing votes for a candidate, but that's not illegal.
If somehow there was a caveat on the money that said, I won't give it to you unless you vote for Biden, then yes, that seems illegal.
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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Re: He probably hopes it will increase the number of votes
Sep 23, 2020, 12:44 PM
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“We have identified a significant vote share that requires a nominal investment,” the memo read. “The data shows that in Florida, Black voters are a unique universe unlike any other voting bloc, where the Democratic support rate tends to be 90%-95%.”…
Rico might disagree with you.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know what "Rico" means...
Sep 23, 2020, 1:05 PM
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But I don't see how what you quoted makes anything illegal.
If the individuals were somehow screened or are in asked in any way who they would vote for, that would seemingly cross a line for me. Absent of that, it seems fine. I understand it may have a result, politically, that you and I may not like.
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All-In [46762]
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Our founding fathers risked their lives
Sep 23, 2020, 11:39 AM
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and stated over and over and over again how much they believe the american people should be able to vote freely being the foundation of our democracy/republic.
Then we come in years later and start putting all kinds of conditions on voting. I agree with the age condition, I agree with the registration, but why shouldn't felons be allowed to vote? I've never heard a good excuse.
I firmly believe if you are an American citizen over the age of 18 you should be allowed to vote. Period. Automatic voter registration at 18 and there is absolutely nothing you can do in life to jettison your right to vote except renounce your citizenship.
Period.
This shouldn't be a dem/pub argument. The right to vote should be THE foundational principal of our democracy because free and fair elections are the cause to freedom.
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All-In [31811]
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Wait, I'm not sure that's really correct...
Sep 23, 2020, 4:08 PM
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the Founding Fathers (as a general statement) were scared to death of the whims of the populace and installed systems and institutions to protect the government from the quickly changing will of the people. That's one of the reasons why the Constitution leaves it to the states to determine who can vote and how. Also, that's one of the reasons why US Senators were originally appointed by the state legislators. That's also one of the reasons for the Electoral College.
There was a pretty big fight over, not the right to vote, but whether to put economic conditions on the right to vote (property owners, tax payers, etc...), but they felt like that would infringe on state's rights.
James Madison said:
"The right of suffrage is a fundamental Article in Republican Constitutions. The regulation of it is, at the same time, a task of peculiar delicacy. Allow the right [to vote] exclusively to property [owners], and the rights of persons may be oppressed... . Extend it equally to all, and the rights of property [owners] ...may be overruled by a majority without property"
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Legend [17215]
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100% legit.***
Sep 23, 2020, 11:44 AM
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