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All-TigerNet [12942]
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After Pitt's loss last night, Clemson remains in 6th place
Feb 25, 2016, 10:31 AM
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in the ACC...
If we win the next two, we could still theoretically finish 4th in the ACC, ahead of 3-4 teams that could make the NCAAT
and have an RPI of 98
Being able to to play in Clemson next year, and not Greenville, should fix this problem.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Plus we'll be 3 years removed from the whole
Feb 25, 2016, 10:34 AM
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KJ leaving early debacle that none of the coaches planned for in advance. So we'll have that going for us, which is nice.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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true.. but he'll still be dealing with the mess OP left***
Feb 25, 2016, 10:42 AM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Plus his team plays in the toughest basketball conference
Feb 25, 2016, 10:46 AM
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in the country and from a state where no major college team can make the NCAA Tourney
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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Clemson also has never had bball success... some coaches are
Feb 25, 2016, 10:53 AM
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capable of leading their team to the NCAAT 3 straight years and even appearing in their conference title game.
B/c these things can't happen at Clemson, it's an uphill battle
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Oculus Spirit [96791]
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Clemson is located in a rural location which is not
Feb 25, 2016, 11:02 AM
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appealing to African-American basketball players who prefer the urban life.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Plus, it's just hard to win, period. Half of the teams
Feb 25, 2016, 11:34 AM
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that play loose, so if you win 51% of your games, your doing gud.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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110%er [6153]
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You left out the part about ...
Feb 25, 2016, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to Clemson also has never had bball success... some coaches are ] |
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... then the coach QUIT on Clemson.
The things you want to happen at Clemson in basketball will only happen if and when we get a coach with the requisite talent and ability who also possesses the other necessary qualities like determination and the loyalty to see the job done.
Oliver Purnell was not that coach.
Rick Barnes was not that coach.
We've never had that coach, and sadly there is a distinct possibility that we never will.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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the things I want to happen at Clemson happened
Feb 25, 2016, 12:21 PM
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under both Barnes and OP
I don't understand your point?
Are you suggesting Clemson DID NOT play in 3 straight NCAAT's and 1 ACCT championship game under Purnell?
Are you suggesting Clemson did not rise to a #2 ranking and play in multiple NCAAT's under Barnes?
If they did that, at Clemson, then how are you saying "they were not that coach"?
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Did you miss the part about determination and loyalty?
Feb 26, 2016, 12:49 AM
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That's the point of what was said.
Neither Oliver Purnell nor Rick Barnes succeeded at Clemson. They both had the "talent and ability" but not the "determination and loyalty". They quit before either could prove whether or not they could do any more than Cliff Ellis or Bill Foster had done before them.
A coach has to do more than simply use Clemson as a stepping stone to his next job. He has to be in it with Clemson for the long run.
This is in no way a defense of Brad Brownell ... it is simply an indictment of Rick Barnes and Oliver Purnell for abandoning Clemson before they proved they could do the job.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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Ok.. you're just embarrassing yourself if you say they were
Feb 26, 2016, 12:56 AM
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not successful here
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Did you miss the part about determination and loyalty?
Feb 26, 2016, 7:57 AM
[ in reply to Did you miss the part about determination and loyalty? ] |
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"Neither Oliver Purnell nor Rick Barnes succeeded at Clemson."
Comparative to our history they were VERY successful here. Not sure how you can argue that.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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You're still missing the part where they both quit Clemson
Feb 26, 2016, 1:24 PM
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Their success was short term. No more accomplished than what had been done before.
Cliff Ellis and Bill Foster both had better teams than any that were fielded by Barnes or Purnell. The difference is that they both stuck with Clemson ... although Clemson did not stick with them.
Ultimately Ellis and Foster were pushed out because they didn't sustain long term consistent success. Clemson thought they could upgrade and that's part of the reason we're where we are today. We pushed aside good coaches in order to hire mercenaries.
We'll never know what Barnes and Purnell might have done over the long haul, because they both quit on Clemson before it could be revealed.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: You're still missing the part where they both quit Clemson
Feb 26, 2016, 2:01 PM
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What does how they left have to do with what they DID while they were here?
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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apparently it nullifies any success they had here
Feb 26, 2016, 2:23 PM
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mind bottling - i know
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110%er [6153]
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Nullify? No. Diminish? Yes, absolutely.
Feb 26, 2016, 3:05 PM
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If one were to extrapolate the Clemson careers of Rick Barnes and Oliver Purnell out to the duration of those of Cliff Ellis and Bill Foster, there is no foundation to suggest that they would have looked any better overall.
The difference between Barnes/Purnell and Ellis/Foster is that Barnes/Purnell ran from the challenge. Actually, at their best, Ellis/Foster were better than Barnes/Purnell.
Rick Barnes in 4 years at Clemson, ACC record 28-36 (.438) and a best ACC finish of 4th place. Then he chose to quit. He subsequently did well at Texas, but they eventually Texas fired him.
Oliver Purnell in 7 years at Clemson, ACC record 50-62 (.446) and a best ACC finish of 3rd place. Then he chose to quit. He then absolutely stunk at DePaul and DePaul fired him.
Cliff Ellis in 10 years at Clemson, ACC record 56-90 (.384) and a best ACC finish of 1st place ... he also finished 2nd in the ACC once. But, then we decided to fire him. He subsequently won the SEC title at Auburn and has taken Coastal Carolina to two NCAA tournament's.
Bill Foster in 9 years at Clemson, ACC record 44-74 (.406) and a best ACC finish of 2nd place. But, we decided to fire him. He subsequently re-built the Miami program from ground zero, and then took the Va Tech team to the NCAAs.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: Nullify? No. Diminish? Yes, absolutely.
Feb 26, 2016, 3:10 PM
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So you're equating finishing higher in the ACC to better overall?
Rick Barnes average ACC finish is 5.
Oliver Purnell average ACC finish is 6.8.
Cliff Ellis average ACC finish is 5.9.
Bill Foster average ACC finish is 5.3.
So over his Clemson career Rick Barnes averaged the highest.
But that doesn't tell the whole story does it?
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110%er [6153]
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All I'm asking is that people stop acting as if ...
Feb 26, 2016, 8:49 PM
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... Rick Barnes and Oliver Purnell "Hung the Moon" ... they both had a nice little run of relative success at Clemson, but both quit the challenge long before they could prove one way or the other whether they were "the answer" to Clemson's historic lack of consistent success in basketball.
In no way do I attempt to defend Brad Brownell in this particular discussion, other than to point out that we have Brad Brownell as our coach because of the fact that we decided to run off pretty good coaches in Foster and Ellis when they leveled out, and then we tried to accelerate our trajectory by hiring a couple of mercenaries who saw us as a stepping stone.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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completely disagree
Feb 26, 2016, 9:06 PM
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this entire discussion is about what BB has, and has not done at Clemson in his 6 years.
Both Barnes and OP are only used when the excuses start to roll... such as:
1. hard to recruit
2. facilities
3. Support
4. KJ going pro
5. SOS
People point to Purnell to show that you can win and make the NCAAT consistently at Clemson, and in much less time than BB has had.
It has NOTHING to do with where OP and Barnes are now, or how they left Clemson.
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110%er [6153]
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Obviously you disagree and that's fine ...
Feb 26, 2016, 9:24 PM
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I make no excuse for Brad Brownell individually. He hasn't gotten the job done, and I haven't got much confidence that he will.
But, the fact is we have Brad Brownell as our coach right now chiefly because we were unable to hold on to thsee coaches that you believe "succeeded" at Clemson.
And this phenomenon goes back way farther than any of us now living.
To me, success at Clemson will mean more than stringing together 3-4 good seasons and then shouting "Show Me The Money!!"
Now you can continue to rail about the situation in post after post and thread after thread from now until doomsday, but it will not change the fact that the very coaches who perhaps have had the potential to change the ###### with Clemson basketball were not willing to stick around and prove it.
And you have no valid reason to believe that the coach who follows Brad Brownell will be any different.
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Walk-On [116]
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They used Clemson as a springboard to a
Feb 26, 2016, 9:33 PM
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better job. Simple as that
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110%er [7718]
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Re: They used Clemson as a springboard to a
Feb 26, 2016, 9:52 PM
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I really feel sorry for you.
Pretending to be something you are not.
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Walk-On [116]
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1) you're wrong 2) no. You don't. 3) later pumper***
Feb 26, 2016, 10:48 PM
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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this is ridiculous...
Feb 26, 2016, 9:54 PM
[ in reply to Obviously you disagree and that's fine ... ] |
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You need to take your emotions and "feeeelings" out of this. If you win at Clemson, other schools will come calling... period.
What a coach decides to do, be it stay or go, has absolutely no effect on how successful they were here.
It may hurt your feelings... but to use it against their success is flat out idiotic.
According to you... if Dabo bolts for Bama next year... he would be considered "unsuccessful" at Clemson b/c he hurt your feelings.
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110%er [6153]
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Because obviously emotions and feelings are something fans
Feb 26, 2016, 10:21 PM
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don't have.
As to your statement ... I'm a Clemson fan. I am extremely emotional about the athletic programs. I believe Clemson is the best school in the world. And I expect a coach who feels the same way.
Our coaches needs to be consistent winners at Clemson, but more than that, they need to prove they can do it for longer than a few years before running away.
As to your question ... Would I be upset if Dabo bolted for Alabama on the heels of his success at Clemson?
You're ### straight I would!
Unlike the basketball job, the Clemson *football* job ought to be good enough to satisfy 95% of the coaches in college ball. Clemson gave Dabo a tremendous opportunity and in return, Dabo has helped to enhance position the program. I feel as if he should stay and maintain what he's built. There would be very little advantage to him to leave Clemson, even for the Alabama job.
Actually, we need someone who will build the basketball program to the level that Dabo has with the football program. And then when they do, we need to pay them a salary commensurate with the job they've done and to provide the incentive to stick with us rather than leaping toward the next thing.
We've given Brad Brownell 6 years and he will get a 7th almost certainly. I agree with anyone who says "That's enough."
We've spent the money on the type of facilities he needs for him to actually compete for recruits on a higher level ... and if need be, we have the facilities to compete with other basketball programs for a top coach in the future if and when Brad Brownell's time runs out.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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it's great that you have feelings and emotions..but they have
Feb 26, 2016, 10:26 PM
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ZERO impact on a coach's success... and to suggest they do is ignorant.
If you feel a coach, or coaches, has wronged Clemson.. that's fine, but it's a different conversation.
To use your feelings about how a coach left to minimize his success here is nuts.
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110%er [6153]
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If I didn't know better, I'd think you were ...
Feb 27, 2016, 12:44 AM
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... getting paid by the key stroke, the word, the paragraph, the post, the thread, or something based on sheer quantity of your output versus quality of your argument.
We obviously have vastly different criteria for "succeeding" ... I just happen to place a premium on consistency and longevity rather than short term flash in the pan results.
At any rate, I will now bow out of this fruitless back and forth and give you the last word if you need to have it.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: If I didn't know better, I'd think you were ...
Feb 27, 2016, 9:19 AM
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I have a very simple question for you....
Have you or a loved one ever left a job for a different one(perhaps a better opportunity)?
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: Obviously you disagree and that's fine ...
Feb 27, 2016, 9:03 AM
[ in reply to Obviously you disagree and that's fine ... ] |
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I'm really just looking forward to the new building and the upgraded team coming back. Next year with Blossomgame, Grantham, Reed, Mitchell, Djitte, Holmes and Thomas(after Jan. 1) Brownell could have his best team. He overachieves every year and is No. 1 in Clemson coaching history with a 45 percent winning mark against ACC competition. And he's finding the zone with recruiting transfers. Blossomgame is obviously a huge question but there's hope and the NBA draft rules are slightly different:
http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/acc/clemson-university/article62838667.html
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Orange Blooded [4968]
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: You left out the part about ...
Feb 25, 2016, 1:13 PM
[ in reply to You left out the part about ... ] |
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Maybe you're right....
However OP's style of basketball was perfect for Clemson.
I said 6 years ago when Brownell was hired that he would not succeed at Clemson.
Hiring Brownell to take over from Oliver Purnell would be like hiring Paul Johnson when Dabo leaves.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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what's he right about?
Feb 25, 2016, 1:14 PM
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there is nothing in that post that makes any sense...
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: You left out the part about ...
Feb 25, 2016, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: You left out the part about ... ] |
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The fact is Purnell did walk out on the team.
He was great for the program and I hated to see him go but you can't deny that....
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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who is denying that or defending that?***
Feb 25, 2016, 1:33 PM
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All-In [32580]
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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We played well in Greenville this year
Feb 25, 2016, 10:46 AM
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Better than we usually play at home. Not sure how a new barn is going to fix us playing like garbage in OOC games and road ACC games.
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Walk-On [116]
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^^^said Molly! Well said psycho***
Feb 25, 2016, 1:47 PM
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110%er [7718]
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Re: After Pitt's loss last night, Clemson remains in 6th place
Feb 25, 2016, 10:54 AM
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Playing in Greenville had nothing to do with us losing to some really bad teams on the road.
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Walk-On [116]
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Grrrrreat. I guess. But, Greenville was not the problem
Feb 25, 2016, 11:01 AM
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We've had more success there than any average year on campus. That's one excuse we cannot use.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Oh, you're still here
Feb 25, 2016, 11:04 AM
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pretending not to be a coot? Why is it that you losers get beat by El Cid at home and still have the balls to come to your rival, who made it all the way to the NCG and talk smack about the 3rd most important sport to both of our schools?
Spare me the act and just answer my question, capon.
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Walk-On [116]
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You're funny. But not real aware. Your post is
Feb 25, 2016, 11:07 AM
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wrong on just about every point. But carry on.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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El oh el...you answered the OP by saying Greenville was not
Feb 25, 2016, 11:09 AM
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the problem, and yet you think you can tell someone else they're not very aware? Just el oh el.
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Walk-On [116]
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Dood, we were on a record pace for ACC wins
Feb 25, 2016, 12:29 PM
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in Gtown. Playing there is not a deterrent. Better/more wins than any average year in LJ.
It's just the truth. Look it up. Nbd. Just true. We can make many excuses for losing games we shouldn't. But that's just not in the top 5. Now, back to making fun of others to try and make yourself feel better.
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Heisman Winner [139852]
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We are playing in Georgetown?***
Feb 25, 2016, 12:35 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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if so...
Feb 25, 2016, 1:05 PM
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dsp might know people, that know a place to celebrate another hard fought win.
or did you has something else in mind?
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Deer GWP,
Feb 25, 2016, 2:11 PM
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Thanks for coming to my aid against this capon. You're a real mench, but a true friend.
No ####.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Which point are you contesting?
Feb 25, 2016, 11:13 AM
[ in reply to You're funny. But not real aware. Your post is ] |
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1. Did you not get beat by El Cid at home?
2. Did we, not you, we, not go to the natty?
3. Is basketball not the 3rd biggest sport for both our schools?
BTW I use the term "school" loosely with you people.
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110%er [7718]
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CU Guru [1992]
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Re: Oh, you're still here
Feb 25, 2016, 11:25 AM
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Not sure why the mods want to keep something with a 25% pulse around. It clearly is adding nothing to the site.
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Oculus Spirit [96791]
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lol snowtown
Feb 25, 2016, 11:09 AM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: lol snowtown
Feb 25, 2016, 5:11 PM
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Oh sure, team not playing well???? Shotgun some Tuna...you'll feel better. Geez...
>
> src="http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t656/cutigerb
> ob/shooting-fish_zps2tszlsoq.jpeg">
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CU Medallion [51524]
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The mindset of Clemson Basketball:
Feb 25, 2016, 12:24 PM
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Hope the other teams lose.
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Walk-On [116]
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^^^our best hope^^^ and
Feb 25, 2016, 1:21 PM
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only hope
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Hall of Famer [24162]
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Tell 'em leadcoot
Feb 25, 2016, 4:39 PM
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Commissioner [943]
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Why are we still talking about this season?
Feb 25, 2016, 12:38 PM
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Reading some of the other "intellectual" posts on here....seems we've already moved on from this team, dismissing Brownell and hiring Greg Marshall. SMH
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Walk-On [116]
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Pumpers gonna pump.....***
Feb 25, 2016, 1:37 PM
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110%er [7718]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7444
Joined: 1/10/16
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Re: Pumpers gonna pump.....***
Feb 25, 2016, 1:44 PM
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Do you honestly think you are fooling anyone.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 8298
Joined: 10/8/08
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Re: Pumpers gonna pump.....***
Feb 25, 2016, 1:58 PM
[ in reply to Pumpers gonna pump.....*** ] |
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Is this the "molly" that inspired your handle?
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Walk-On [116]
TigerPulse: 25%
Posts: 305
Joined: 8/27/15
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It's my name. But let's go with your theory
Feb 25, 2016, 2:09 PM
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More interesting
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Starter [397]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 885
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Why are we still talking about this season?
Feb 25, 2016, 2:17 PM
[ in reply to Why are we still talking about this season? ] |
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> Reading some of the other "intellectual" posts on
> here....seems we've already moved on from this team,
> dismissing Brownell and hiring Greg Marshall. SMH
If CU ever hires Marshall then my IPTAY money goes to the bank every year but not to CU. Can not stand him or his really gray area in recruiting
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