|
Replies: 27
| visibility 1
|
All-In [30593]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 28685
Joined: 8/17/05
|
How much has our lack of an effective running game cost us
Oct 31, 2014, 2:27 PM
|
|
over the last couple of years? Loved watching UofL line up and play downhill vs. FSU last night. Not to mention that without Dalvin Cook, FSU prolly doesn't win. It was fun watching him and Dyer go back and forth.
How much, if any, do you think not having that element has cost us lately?
(it it's possible to discuss this w/o the obligatory attack and "basher/trasher" comments)
|
|
|
|
 |
Oculus Spirit [75717]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 108847
Joined: 10/26/03
|
I'm not certain we have any more wins over
Oct 31, 2014, 2:30 PM
|
|
the past 2 years without a truly elite running back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [96844]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 29211
Joined: 9/14/05
|
I was chatting with a friend, and he said where are the rbs?
Oct 31, 2014, 2:34 PM
|
|
Clemson's guys are talented [maybe out of position], but missing on the studs, the
the pure guys. Is Feaster leaning elsewhere now?
Clemson's rushing stats since Morris arrived really bear this out. Even if you believe it's oline related, Morris is the OC and was "accused" by his senior rb of spitting in the rbs faces. You think a recruiter might show that to a stud rb? Yeah, me too.
Dalvin Cook won that game last night and Dyer gave Louisville a chance. I really believe Clemson won't beat the FSU's and Coot's unless those teams drop or Clemson improves with a sound, consistent and viable run game. That's not saying Clemson won't ever beat those teams again, it just won't happen as often as it needs to or should.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Enthusiast [145]
TigerPulse: 65%
Posts: 953
Joined: 11/29/04
|
The team with the superior passing game won the FSU vs ...
Oct 31, 2014, 3:43 PM
|
|
Louisville game that I saw last night, but obviously we would be better with a better running game all other aspects being equal. Recently we have been able to attract great receivers and fortunately a great QB. I would not trade them for a better RB. We need better OL play period. Hopefully we keep the commitments and some can play early. Not to be sarcastic, but we are usually going to be deficient somewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22387]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 31281
Joined: 11/30/98
|
FSU and Georgia this year, SC last year, FSU in 2012
Oct 31, 2014, 2:46 PM
|
|
Not the only reason we lost those games, but an effective running game cures a lot of ills by reducing the pressure on the quarterback, thus reducing the turnovers in those games, keeps our drives going longer, allows us to score more and to keep our defense off the field.
While the rules favor the passing game now, you must be balanced if you want to consistently win the big games.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [96844]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 29211
Joined: 9/14/05
|
I've always herd you have to be able to run the ball and
Oct 31, 2014, 2:50 PM
|
|
stop the run in order to win consistently.
Also, juan of Danny's favorite sayings:
"When you pass the ball, 3 things can happen, and 2 of them are bad."
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5024]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3549
Joined: 7/7/12
|
I guess Danny Ford learned that from Frank Howard
Oct 31, 2014, 6:34 PM
|
|
because he was saying it in the '50s and '60s - in the days when Clemson's offense was described as "3 yards and a cloud of dust". I'm sure someone was saying it before Frank Howard.
On the face of it, 3 yards times 4 downs = first down....... but unfortunately, unless you get those 3 yards when you need them, you turn the ball over.
I think we're hurting ourselves somewhat by using the swing passes and screens as much as we do. It's done for good reason when you don't have a good run-blocking offense and you do have quick RBs who can make DBs and LBs miss. But - I think it hurts in the recruiting of the top-drawer RBs and in the development of an O-line to be able to run-block.
I'm not 100% certain we would be better off, but I'd sure like to see a 2-back offense using a FB as the lead blocker and short-yardage back. I like the H-back or 3-back idea, but the angles are different. The H-back is opening a hole (or trying to) by pushing someone to the side or double-teaming a NT or DT, where in the power game, the pulling guard seals and the FB goes straight ahead and pushes the gap deeper, allowing the RB to cut either way around the MLB. Surely, the combination of pulling guards and a FB would provide a better power running game than what we're doing. Part of the problem is personnel, but I wonder how many great TEs and guards we'll recruit using the scheme we have. We are recruiting better - at least in the OT department - but there's something missing in the downhill punch, that's for sure.
What we're doing will work, but it takes terrific, big, quick, strong, smart athletes to pull it off at the O-line.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
All goes back to the Oline...
Oct 31, 2014, 2:55 PM
|
|
I think that's the glaring problem right now...too many injuries and inconsistency.
That is what's cost us imo. That is the weakest link and makes other positions (namely the QB and RB position) look bad. Fix that, then then other will follow suit...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [75717]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 108847
Joined: 10/26/03
|
Here is hoping the next 2 years, the Oline is really good
Oct 31, 2014, 2:58 PM
|
|
we've reloaded the D. I think the skill spots are pretty set for that run.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
I'm already excited about the possibilites next season...
Oct 31, 2014, 3:08 PM
|
|
I really think next years offense has the potential to be the best Clemson has had in a really, really long time...if ever. Similar to FSU's last year where we just run roughshod on every time we play with a very good (maybe not great) defense. I'm still not sold our defense will take THAT big of step back either.
It's hard to be upset with this season when I see where we're going.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [75717]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 108847
Joined: 10/26/03
|
I am worried about the step back on the D. You've got
Oct 31, 2014, 3:13 PM
|
|
two potential first rounders on that line, those are hard to replace.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
I think Reader will fill some shoes nicely though...
Oct 31, 2014, 3:20 PM
|
|
Carlos Watkins shouldn't be a big step down and I'm banking on Pagano being a pretty big contributor...he just plays with a mean streak and looks like the Hulk...
Kevin Dodd and Shaq Lawson shouldn't be too big of a step down at DE either...
Admittedly, we may not be as deep...but I still think the talent is there...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [96844]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 29211
Joined: 9/14/05
|
OK, put our backs behind Auburn's or FSU's offensive line.
Oct 31, 2014, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to All goes back to the Oline... ] |
|
Which juans go over 1,000 yards?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
A healthy Choice probably could...I would think Brooks and
Oct 31, 2014, 3:02 PM
|
|
Dye probably could too but no evidence to support it. Also, AU and FSU has a legitimate dual threat at QB. Clemson does not. Not bashing Cole but he is not a threat with his feet which makes zone read less effective with our personnel.
I think the difference in our rush attack will be night and day come next season. Watson brings another element defenses must account for and hopefully our Oline will be deeper and more talented...
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30593]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 28685
Joined: 8/17/05
|
i hear ya... but i'm getting tired of that
Oct 31, 2014, 3:00 PM
[ in reply to All goes back to the Oline... ] |
|
this is year 4 of the smashmouth spread, that admittedly, was hard to handle when CM was at TU. I don't buy 4 years of injuries...
highest we've ranked in rushing since CM is 37th, and we were 52nd last year, with a 1000 yd rusher and TB getting 15+ a game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [75717]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 108847
Joined: 10/26/03
|
Okay, take out Sammy and all the big plays.
Oct 31, 2014, 3:02 PM
|
|
Replace it with average and you'd have to run the ball a bit more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16134]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26435
Joined: 11/18/03
|
Why is that so hard to understand?***
Oct 31, 2014, 3:25 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
I understand...I truly believe we trying to use Cole in a
Oct 31, 2014, 3:05 PM
[ in reply to i hear ya... but i'm getting tired of that ] |
|
zone read offense that just isn't suitable for his abilities. Watson is MUCH better suited for that and Kelly would have been a threat on his feet too. Combined with the loses on the line...it's just unfortunate. It is what it is but I feel like that is the most glaring, obvious problem.
On the bright side, I feel like the offense and it's capabilities will be night and day later on this season and will be #### near unstoppable next season...
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58411]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46322
Joined: 4/23/00
|
No doubt about it. By no means do we have elite talent
Oct 31, 2014, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to All goes back to the Oline... ] |
|
(so far this season) at RB, and there is a significant dropoff in talent with Watson out. Having said that, I think both are much better than they have looked this year behind an OL that was inconsistent at best before the injuries.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
I agree, but then we have to go back to other injuries
Oct 31, 2014, 3:14 PM
|
|
with Peake who is up their with Williams as our best 1, 2 punch at WR.
Then we lost Cooper literally at the last second that, according to Dabo, affected our ability to run as he is our best run blocker. Then Leggett, a better catching WR and BIG target goes down...
It's frustrating watching our O be so anemic after so many years of explosiveness, but I think it'll be like a flick of switch in the coming games. We've survived some difficult ones, now I think it's only a matter of time before we start putting the missing pieces of the puzzle back together...
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58411]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46322
Joined: 4/23/00
|
We are a much better offense, when healthy, than we've
Oct 31, 2014, 3:24 PM
|
|
shown in recent weeks. I still think our OL was struggling for consistency all along, but injuries squashed much chance of that, but as you point out, it's been multiple injuries to key players, not just on the OL. I agree we should be much improved for the last few games as we heal up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
And we will, those #### coots will get their arses fried...***
Oct 31, 2014, 4:29 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22387]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 31281
Joined: 11/30/98
|
FSU's line looked so much better last night when Dalvin Cook
Oct 31, 2014, 3:11 PM
[ in reply to All goes back to the Oline... ] |
|
was running the ball instead of Karlos Williams. Night and Day. Holes seemed bigger. And they have a few NFLers on that line.
Our line looks better when DeShaun Watson is in at quarterback and with Choice at running back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12505]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10500
Joined: 1/14/11
|
We were under the impression we were moving to the Big 12
Oct 31, 2014, 3:44 PM
|
|
And wouldn't have to run the ball in order to win.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3257]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7167
Joined: 7/27/99
|
OL still not there, BUT a 1000 yd rusher last two years.
Oct 31, 2014, 3:52 PM
|
|
Record not that bad. We are a team that needs to pass to set up the run. 1st down should be a passing down for us, and it need to be intermediate passes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1250]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 2645
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Yes, Especially How Louisville Ran Down Hill
Oct 31, 2014, 7:09 PM
|
|
on that first series at the goal line and late in the game. Really a successful running game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30593]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 28685
Joined: 8/17/05
|
great insight***
Oct 31, 2014, 7:29 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93667]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95418
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Speaking of loaded questions...
Oct 31, 2014, 7:10 PM
|
|
when did you quit beating your wife?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 27
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
