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YOUR BALANCE
Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo
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Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo


Aug 22, 2012, 5:50 PM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/stewart_mandel/08/21/heisman-brian-kelly-clemson/index.html

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Re: Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo


Aug 22, 2012, 6:02 PM

anyone that doesnt believe that is well, just an idiot.

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Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good


Aug 22, 2012, 6:12 PM

The fact that a question by a guy in NY about Dabo being on the hot seat in the first place is indicative of that.

If you ask college football fans outside of our sphere of influence about Clemson, generally two things come up: fickle fans and consistent underachiever.

People largely don't know about how much of a devoted fan base Clemson has. But unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and the crazies running amok on sites like this one contribute poorly to our school's reputation.

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Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good


Aug 22, 2012, 6:51 PM

Sad, but true.

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Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good


Aug 22, 2012, 6:54 PM [ in reply to Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]

I can't argue with the idea that nationally Clemson is seen as a constant under achiever. The fact is, since the day FSU joined the ACC that is exactly what Clemson has been. FSU was supposed to bring parity to our domination of the ACC. Instead we handed them the keys and went to sleep for nearly two decades. A full ten years was wasted in Tommy Bowden solely because he dominated a miserable South Carolina team and way too much stock was put into that game.

But, I couldn't disagree more with the fickle fans assessment. I've watched Clemson in person and on tv in sports bars all over this country, including Hawaii. First, to dispel a coot myth, I've never met a single sport fan who had never heard of or didn't know who Clemson was. And, for awhile, I was genuinely surprised at how overwhelmingly positive the impression of Clemson sports was. But now I've just come to expect it. I've met BC fans who consider us the highlight road trip they've ever made and have made it a tradition. In Omaha, I've shared beers with LSU, Arizona State, and even FSU fans who had high praise for Clemson. Hell, I've even met UNC fans who admit that Clemson is one of the great venues for college football. Wearing Clemson apparel and journey to a sports bar in an unfamiliar city has never, ever failed to strike up good conversation.

I think you're listening to crazies on message boards to get that impression as much as anyone in the real world is getting the idea that Clemson has a majority (or unusually large) number of fickle fans.

I'd like to add that the whole "pulling a Clemson" mantra might be the most well known thing about clemson - at least from a national media standpoint. And that ties directly to the idea of underachieving. But despite it being used as ridicule by our rival you have to realize that in many ways the expression is born out of affection. How many teams finish undefeated each year? Not many? How many win a national championship? One. So why does Clemson get singled out for falling short? Because national media are very aware of Clemson, know that Clemson has everything necessary to win a championship, know that Clemson has the fans and traditions to win a championship, and ultimately (I believe) would love to see Clemson win another championship. Not something I think you would see with a middle of the road fan base.

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good


Aug 22, 2012, 7:15 PM

handed FSU the keys and went to sleep for 20 years. sadly true. I think we were about the 4th ACC team to beat them. they won title after title without ever breaking a sweat. that is 100% on us. DF or no DF that is our fault

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Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good


Aug 22, 2012, 7:22 PM

I think a lot of people here are too young to really appreciate what happened. Clemson and Florida State were two of the dominant programs of the 80s. 1988 and 1989 each team went on the road and upended the others serious shot at a national championship. It was poised to be an epic rivalry and we sh*t the bed.

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


You ignored a large part of my statement


Aug 22, 2012, 7:47 PM [ in reply to Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]

I said "outside of our sphere of influence." Your counter-examples included BC fans who have traveled to Death Valley, a college baseball tournament that we are regular participants in, and conference member within 5 hours of our campus. All of those situations include fan bases that are at least somewhat informed about Clemson.

And again, I'll point to the fact that Mandel had to field a question about Dabo being on the hot seat from a guy in New York as evidence to Clemson having a reputation tied to fickle fans.

Why would that guy have asked that question if he had not been led to believe it had some merit? Why are questions continuously popping up on national media outlets regarding Dabo being on the hot seat if Clemson fans didn't give the impression that he wasn't? Mandel didn't just fabricate the question, and the other outlets don't just make up reputations.

Sure, people think an individual Clemson fan is nice. My dad lives in Alaska, and a number of people think he's an extremely devout Clemson fan. But the reputation of Clemson's fan base is that of a fickle one that is quick to call for a coach's head, regardless of how good our tailgates are and how good a showing we bring to a bowl game.

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Re: You ignored a large part of my statement


Aug 22, 2012, 8:28 PM

So you discredit my observations but believe that a single question to Stuart Mandel is indicative of how the entire country perceives Clemson? And, Dabo is in a very unique situation as a coach. He was grossly unqualified for the job. A very large segment of the fanbase wanted a splashy hire a la Spurrier to show we were going to play with the big boys after 20 years of mediocrity. But, along the way, Dabo did everything that was asked of him as an interim coach and earned the job, he was given a ridiculously lo-ball contract (with good reason). But now, three years later he has an ACC title and two championship games and some amazing recruiting classes under his belt. But he's lost to in state rival 3 years running. How does it reflect negatively on our fanbase that a New Yorker is aware enough of our situation to think that a young coach who has lost 3 in a row to a teams rival MIGHT be on the hot seat. Reflects more to me that nationally the ACC title doesn't mean much. And Mandels response came off as very positive, to me anyway.

As for the places/teams I cited. Sorry, of course cities we play are in your "sphere of influence" - even though that includes the entire eastern seaboard and southeast. So, here are the places I've watched Clemson on tv and discussed sports with total strangers (not including any ACC or SEC markets): San Francisco, Anaheim, Chicago, Honolulu, the Bahamas, Omaha, Cleveland, Cincinnati, St. Louis and Louisville. Thats what comes to my head not in the sphere. I posted because my experience is completely opposite yours. Almost everytime someone comments on how great the Clemson fanbase, gameday, tailgating, the atmosphere, etc...is.

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Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


them fans are idiots


Aug 22, 2012, 8:43 PM [ in reply to You ignored a large part of my statement ]

I hate that we have lost to USuC 3 times in a row but Dabo has only been here for a few years and has brought great success to Clemson, and we just signed him to a 6 year contract, so any fans that think he is on the hot seat are morons. If he just happens to blow up these next couple of years then he may be on the hot seat, but not right now

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Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good


Aug 22, 2012, 7:58 PM [ in reply to Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]

one of the best peices ever written on this board

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well put sir***


Aug 22, 2012, 8:40 PM [ in reply to Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]



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Excellent post. +1.***


Aug 22, 2012, 9:24 PM [ in reply to Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]



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I dont see how you can say we wasted 10 years with Bowden


Aug 22, 2012, 11:01 PM [ in reply to Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]

Without that man we arent were we are today. The last 2-3 years may have been a waste, but he made us relevant again. He got quality players to come to a school that had done nothing for 10+ years. He is the reason we have guys like Andre, Sammy, Nuke, and Tajh.

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Re: I dont see how you can say we wasted 10 years with Bowden


Aug 23, 2012, 12:06 AM

We'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree. He looked the best he would ever look with Tommy West's players and Rich Rod running the offense. Once Rich Rod left he treaded water every year thereafter. Losing to Duke and Wake Forest in back to back seasons? Dabo hasn't done anything close to that. Everybody can laugh at 70 points if they want but I watched all 3 and I'll take this years Orange Bowl over the Texas Tech or Virginia Tech debacles any day. We got flat out beat to smithereens in those games. The OB was an insanely paced shoot 'em out and the wheels just came off. Frankly, I have never seen anything like it. But despite the score disparity, I don't think we got physically manhandled the way we did in those other two games.

People also go on about how great his recruiting was and it is simply a myth. He had two of the worst recruiting classes in Clemson history (at least as much as these things are researchable) right in the middle of his tenure and after a contract extension. The 2003 and 2004 recruiting classes were outside the Top 50 nationally and ranked 11th in the ACC both years. So, while he was collecting a raise and an ACC coach of the year (for a season that he finished 3rd in the conference) he was massively failing on the recruiting trail. He only finished 6-2 in the ACC once! Yes, he pulled us out of the tail spin that was Tommy West, but he should have moved on gracefully much sooner than he did.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


couldn't have said it better myself!


Aug 23, 2012, 3:41 AM [ in reply to Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]

of course, we all know that. jk, great post.+1 for ya.

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Excellent and insightful points!***


Aug 23, 2012, 12:25 PM [ in reply to Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]



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Why is a guy from NY concerned about Clemson?


Aug 22, 2012, 7:48 PM [ in reply to Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]

Remote Coot Troll?

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"Dabo crushed my soul." --- Classof09


Re: Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good


Aug 23, 2012, 8:27 AM [ in reply to Unfortunately the national perception of Clemson is not good ]

That is not true at all. Clemson fans are known for their support. You've listened to the coots way to much.

Ask any bowl in country what team they want from the ACC
Hands down it's Clemson

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Re: Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo


Aug 22, 2012, 8:36 PM [ in reply to Re: Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo ]

The only reason Clemson has the "underachieving" reputation is because ESPN drills it into the viewers' heads every chance they get. They dislike Clemson because ESPN promotes the SEC, and Clemson completes with SEC schools for recruits.

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good point... they are not going to have anything positive


Aug 22, 2012, 8:48 PM

to say until we go undefeated... and if we ever do all the E$PN analysts are going to say is "You got a wonder when they are going to pull a Clemson." Which is total BS when we was at 8-0 last year when we werent even suppose to be that good. Did they forget we was not even ranked? We were very fortunate to have the year we did, and I hope we continue to get better and better to shut the $EC weiner suckers will shut the #### up

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Re: Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo


Aug 23, 2012, 6:16 AM [ in reply to Re: Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo ]

Actually, I kinda-of think Mandel himself is responsible for the "pulling a Clemson". I have been reading his columns for years, and I especially enjoy the mailbag.

He has refers to it as the "Clemson/Ole Miss Syndrome", where a school has had success in in the past, and the fan base holds onto it dearly, but the teams seem to always manage to shoot themselves in the foot.

And if you go back through the years, and especially in the mailbag, he often writes about waiting for the game that Clemson will finally "pull the Clemson" and lose to the likes of Duke.

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What success are you talking about with Ole Miss?


Aug 23, 2012, 6:28 AM

Their 0 conference titles in the past 50 years or their 0 national championships (FYI, I know what they "claim" but by that time the AP and Coaches polls were established and they weren't #1 in either)?

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Re: What success are you talking about with Ole Miss?


Aug 23, 2012, 10:57 AM

I'd probably give them credit for 1960. The Football Writers Association probably had as much credibility at the time as the AP or UPI. The 1959 and 1962 claims are both for post facto computer poll nonsense, much the same as Kentucky's mythical national championship in football.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Jstone D329 - “ It’s ok to want a coaching change”
Brownell @Clemson: 8 seasons ranked 50th or worse by Sports Reference’s SRS
1-29: Brad Brownell road record against ranked ACC opponents
142, 161, 294, 307, 293, 166, 225, 180, 260, 164, 141, 72, 68 - assist rankings amongst all D1 programs during Brownell's tenure


Re: What success are you talking about with Ole Miss?


Aug 23, 2012, 1:57 PM [ in reply to What success are you talking about with Ole Miss? ]

Basically the assumption that Ole Miss fans have that they are one of the big boys, with nothing recent to show for it on the field. Much like Clemson had been since '91, until 09 (when Mandel first wondered if Clemson was returning to historic form, but definitely now).

And I didn't say that, Mandel says that. He has a book where he expounds further and the references can be found in his past articles. Google Stewart Mandel and Clemson/Ole Miss syndrome.

He has tentatively taken the "Clemson" off the title. It used to include Auburn, Clemson and Ole Miss, then Auburn came off and now he sometimes includes A&M.

Here's a link to his book. http://www.amazon.com/Bowls-Polls-Tattered-Souls-Controversy/dp/B001U3YQ06/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345743988&sr=8-1&keywords=stewart+mandel

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The only reason is because it's true


Aug 23, 2012, 3:22 PM [ in reply to Re: Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo ]

No one has more inexplicable blown it OVER AND OVER.

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Re: Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo


Aug 22, 2012, 6:04 PM

Cool article, Thanks for posting !

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That question from the NY guy...


Aug 22, 2012, 10:26 PM

had to be someone from TigerNet. He said looses.

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Re: Si's Stewart Mandel: Clemson All-In with Dabo


Aug 23, 2012, 7:54 AM

I just wish these idiots that post and ask questions would learn the difference between loose and lose. Really annoys the #### out of me.

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