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All-In [47750]
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So why do you on the left think Trump is incompetent?
Sep 7, 2018, 1:42 PM
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He was smart enough to beat 17 other republicans and 1 potential felon to make it to the white house.
What does that say about the other candidates?
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Because they have no legitimate agenda to run in Nov.
Sep 7, 2018, 1:47 PM
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The choices are slim. Trump has the working class which is everyone who wasn't born rich or desperately poor.
I believe 'Impeach The Moron,' and 'Socialism,' are all that's left.
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All-In [28802]
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The left? How about just people who work for him?
Sep 7, 2018, 1:48 PM
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He beat 17 other candidates by being a buffoon, while the others fought over the 70% of voters who preferred a more serious, mainstream candidate. Setting aside the unique circumstances of the Republican primary in 2016 (and the uniquely problematic Democratic candidate in the general election), it doesn't take smarts to come along at the right time.
I'm not sure why anybody decent would try to defend Trump's character or his competence as an administrator at this point. But you don't really need to to do that to argue that it's better for the competent people in his administration to be in charge than for the left to be in charge. Trump is an embarrassment that I'm afraid the Republican Party is going to have to live down for years, but while he's in office, conservatives can at least continue to push for their priorities.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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High opinion of we the people***
Sep 7, 2018, 1:54 PM
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All-In [28802]
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My lowest opinion is of Trump primary voters
Sep 7, 2018, 2:05 PM
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Although, even they could argue their vote was a kind of protest vote. But if they voted for him actually hoping he'd be nominated, that's sad.
I do have a high opinion of democratic institutions and democratic government, but unfortunately our way of thinking about politics doesn't fit us very well for being good citizens of a democratic republic. Instead, too many people fall back on cynicism when things don't fall their way, and they scapegoat far away "elites" rather than actually taking up their responsibility as citizens.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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Nice of you to say republic.
Sep 7, 2018, 2:53 PM
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We are less and less of a republic as time has progressed. I'm on record as to why as well. But that's a whole other story.
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All-In [28802]
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Right, you blame it on anybody but the actual citizenry
Sep 7, 2018, 4:36 PM
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I don't get how that works in a democratic republic, but I obviously have my theory as to why people feel that way.
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110%er [6101]
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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No one is defending his rude language and behavior.
Sep 7, 2018, 6:31 PM
[ in reply to The left? How about just people who work for him? ] |
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The economy addresses his ability to administrate. What else matters to the working class?
As far as your explanation on why he won the primary that doesn't address his winning the general against the DNC's anointed one.
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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The economy was recovering before he arrived***
Sep 7, 2018, 10:44 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I wouldn't call this a recovery.
Sep 7, 2018, 11:34 PM
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I'd call this a boom and he didn't print 4.5 trillion bucks to make it happen. Obama, on the other hand and since you brought it up, threw money at our problems. He put a patch on a worn out tire.
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All-In [31891]
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I'm on the right and know he's incompetent?....
Sep 7, 2018, 2:26 PM
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and having 17 other in the GOP primary is the reason he WON...it made it much easier, not harder.
As I've said before, no way he wins if there was 3 or 4 at the start.
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Lot o points [155901]
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Maybe not, and just as likely if that had happened,
Sep 7, 2018, 2:28 PM
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one of the establishment candidates would have probably taken a beating from Hillary. There's a silver lining in every grey cloud.
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All-In [31891]
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Doubt it....
Sep 7, 2018, 2:35 PM
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all speculation of course, but I think Rubio would have killed Hillary in the general.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Doubt it....
Sep 7, 2018, 2:40 PM
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I agree, I think Rubio or Kasich would have mopped the floor with her.
Hillary is easily the worst Presidential candidate the Dems have ever put forward and they cheated to do it.
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All-In [28802]
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So we'd have hoped, but...
Sep 7, 2018, 2:41 PM
[ in reply to Doubt it.... ] |
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I'm not entirely sure he's wrong that Trump's buffoonery, celebrity, and cynicism about politics isn't what got him elected.
The question is whether that's a good thing or not. I go back and forth, because a lot of the actual policy that's been effected has been good, even if the long term effects on politics is almost certainly very bad. Also, I think the progressive foundations that Obama put in place (which, I think, have led to a lot of the current excesses of the progressive movement and the complete intolerance for anything but progressivism among the business and media class) would've been built upon by Clinton in some very bad ways. But has Trump really done anything to combat that for the long haul? Or has he just fanned those flames?
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All-In [31891]
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I support a lot of what Trump has done policy wise...
Sep 7, 2018, 2:46 PM
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but the stuff I support, I believe, would have been done much more effectively by another candidate.
We likely would have gotten meaningful healthcare reform...Trump royally screwed that whole situation up.
Tax reform would have been a no-brainer
Likely would have had more success on true spending reform and Rubio would have taken up entitlement reform with Paul Ryan.
I think we would have seen the same level of role back on regulations and likely would have had more competent Cabinet level folks.
As for the general, I think the Latino influence would have made a measurement difference and the anti-Hillary component would have still been there.
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All-In [28802]
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Right, but...
Sep 7, 2018, 4:38 PM
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we didn't have that choice. Instead, we had the choice between an embarrassing buffoon of a Republican candidate, and a Democratic candidate who was sure to take us further down the progressive primrose path.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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that will be the choice in 2020 as well***
Sep 7, 2018, 4:47 PM
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All-In [28802]
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Most likely
Sep 7, 2018, 4:50 PM
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Seems like we're in an era when extreme or highly partisan rhetoric is taken as a sign of authenticity because it makes somebody sound like an "outsider."
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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It is a solemn hope of mine that a successful candidate
Sep 7, 2018, 5:15 PM
[ in reply to that will be the choice in 2020 as well*** ] |
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in 2020 will possess the dignity and moral compass that the office deserves.
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Legend [18023]
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Hillary was more centrist than progressive...
Sep 7, 2018, 5:03 PM
[ in reply to Right, but... ] |
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which is why bernie gained so much favor with the progressives and why Hillary changed some of her campaign ideology to seem more leftist.
But if you compare Hillary to what the GOP has been doing(regressive), I guess she might seem progressive which is why she ended up being so disliked. Our two party systems are moving further to the extreme sides of their respective spectrums so anyone that falls in the middle has little to no support (even if they do win the popular vote by 3 million votes) and is easily painted negatively. In other words, being a moderate is becoming the extreme position when it comes to winning elections.
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All-In [28802]
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Yes, in 2008 she was less progressive
Sep 7, 2018, 5:42 PM
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That's why I was hoping she'd get the nomination over the much more ideological charismatic Obama. I don't think that was really the case by 2016, even though you're correct that she moved towards more progressive rhetoric as Sander became more popular. I think you're mostly wrong about the rest of what you say about ideology, but correct that being perceived as being more moderate now runs a bigger risk than sounding more extreme.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Oculus Spirit [83116]
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Bush would have also.***
Sep 7, 2018, 8:46 PM
[ in reply to Doubt it.... ] |
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Legend [15492]
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Re: So why do you on the left think Trump is incompetent?
Sep 7, 2018, 2:38 PM
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Like most on the right, we can read.
Ask yourself why so many people don't have any confidence in him?
There has never been a President who so divides the country. That isn't because the Dems lost the election it's because of his behavior.
I just don'tunderstand how so many can ignore that he's an adultery, a pathological liar and appears to care for only ratings and how much money he has.
I understand how he got elected, but what most believe is that that wave of discontent across the country carried the wrong guy into the office.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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The division started the day he won.
Sep 7, 2018, 4:51 PM
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He hadn't even done anything and people were already crying in the streets, saying how scared they were for the future.
The news media was on full tilt saying how our economy was going to crash, and how Trump "ruined democracy."
Hillary says he got elected because of emails and Facebook ads, yet you disagree. Who's right?
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Legend [18023]
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He started it long before he was elected...
Sep 7, 2018, 6:05 PM
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Birtherism, going after War heroes, handicapped journalists, women, minorities and all obvious lying he was doing.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Obama started it many years before Trump got involved.
Sep 7, 2018, 6:33 PM
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Robin Hood was robbing the working class and giving it to the hood.
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Legend [17285]
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Gibberish.***
Sep 7, 2018, 2:42 PM
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Legend [19944]
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Re: Gibberish.***
Sep 7, 2018, 6:10 PM
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Orange Blooded [4401]
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how does any thinking person see him as anything other
Sep 7, 2018, 10:35 PM
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than a con man?
all he's ever been...all he ever will be.
Mitt Romney was right about him all along: "There's plenty of evidence that Mr. Trump is a con man, a fake. Mr. Trump has changed his positions not just over the years, but over the course of the campaign..."
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