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All-TigerNet [14090]
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The downward turn in the baseball program...
May 6, 2015, 2:52 PM
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First off, this is really the first bad season Leggett has had. Secondly, it is time for Leggett to retire. That being said, the culmination of this season started when the shamecocks won two national titles in baseball. Really, it was the first national title of the shamecocks that affected our baseball program the most. After that first one by the shamecocks, our baseball fans quit on the program and Jack Leggett. No team in the history of college baseball has received as much negativity from it's fans, as Clemson has since the shamecocks won their first national title. Even Garrett Boulware stated they liked playing on the road better than at home, because of this negativity. The negativity from our baseball fans pretty much negated any opportunity for the team and Jack Leggett to return to top form. The atmosphere from the fans after the first shamecock national title was an attitude of let's quit on this team, just because our rival who has had a quality program over the years won a national title. And the negativity from our baseball fans is absurd, considering baseball is non revenue generating sport and barely anybody outside of the state of SC keeps up with how our baseball program does. We have been an elite program for years, and will return to that.
At this point a change is inevitable and probably will happen soon. But, at the same time Jack Leggett needs to be treated with respect for what he has done for Clemson. He has led Clemson to 6 CWS appearances, been inducted into the Hall of Fame, and always ran his program with integrity.
Actually, the shamecocks winning 2 national titles in baseball was a blessing in disguise for us. They got drunk off of their success and replaced the AD which vastly improved their athletic teams, with a former coach who is completely clueless. Ray Tanner made a terrible hire in Chad Holbrook, and now their baseball program is in a free fall. He has been unable to reign in Spurrier's alcoholism, which has caused their football program to go back to being one of the worst programs in the nation. Only thing the shamecocks have now is their women's basketball team. And they better hope the WNBA doesn't come calling for Dawn Staley, then they will have nothing athletically wise.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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ts:dr
May 6, 2015, 2:54 PM
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too strong did not read
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All-In [30593]
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^^ vastly underrated post***
May 6, 2015, 10:05 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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yorkie! did you get blown 2nite? hope everyone's safe...
May 6, 2015, 11:47 PM
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keep it down out there.
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CU Medallion [64589]
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Coaching, as much if not more than any profession....
May 6, 2015, 3:06 PM
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is a "what have you done for me lately" undertaking and Jack is well aware of that.
He also knows that his teams have failed miserably to live up to expectations and have underachieved over the last few years.
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Trainer [38]
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Tigerking 79, bless your heart But the baseball down turn.
May 6, 2015, 3:36 PM
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Started back in the early 2000s, other than a few greats like Baker and Green, CJL has not been able to get the players that we used to get, and that is why we have seen the steady decline of our program. Jack should have retired back in 08 or 09. He has become the Richard Petty of collage baseball. Petty won a lot of races back when he had more money than everyone else in NASCAR, but when the other teams caught up with him financially, he no longer won much of anything. Jack did well in the 1990's when we where the only school who saw value in baseball and spent the time and money on it. however now, everyone has caught up with us and are our equal in money and investment in baseball, so we now see how much young players want to play for Jack, and it isn't much fun. one player last year said to get away from Jack, he would take a hundred dollar bill and a bus ticket if MLB offered it. The main difference between Jack and Richard is that Richard was a nice guy.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Explain away the CWS appearances in 2000, 2002, 2006, 2010..
May 6, 2015, 3:41 PM
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The facts don't back up your assertion. You may disagree with me, but the baseball program has not been down since the early 2000's, the facts prove the opposite. And by the way I stated it is time for a change.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Explain away the CWS appearances in 2000, 2002, 2006, 2010..
May 6, 2015, 4:06 PM
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Ok, Hear goes. Jack got a few players due to the reputation of Clemson, ie Green and Baker, but in resent years, schools like So.Car, UNC, Va Tec, and others have gotten the players that we are not. Players win games and players lose games. the team with the very best players don't always win, but that's who i'm putting my money on. And Clemson isn't getting the very best players. Now this didn't happen over night, but it has happened. and now the very best players want to play where the coach lets them grow facial hair or grow it out or get a tattoo. They don't want to play for a guy who controls every aspect of his life. Jack wants players who hit singles and bunts runners over and if he swings for the fences he gets benched. I have asked a kid who was a home run hitter in Hi School what was going on and he said they changed every thing about his game and he was afraid of gettein benched if he didn't. I love this program, but Jack has got to go. You should not feel sorry for him, he has been paied well for his time, but his time is over. Remember, this is not aimed at you I don't Know you, but this is how I see it. I pray this team gets it done, Ask Jack if he has been praying for the team.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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I stated that Leggett needs to retire...
May 6, 2015, 10:04 PM
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also never mentioned anything about feeling sorry for him. I just stated he deserves respect for what he has accomplished here during his career.
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Heisman Winner [140468]
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Thank goodness we're a football school.***
May 6, 2015, 4:14 PM
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Rock Defender [56]
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Last night's debacle
May 6, 2015, 4:49 PM
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I went to the game last night at Wofford and could not believe my eyes! they hit every pitcher we threw at them and our fielding was sloppy at times thought the game would never end-lasted over 4 hours!
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All-TigerNet [10635]
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Okey Dokey - then please try and explain why we can't beat
May 6, 2015, 5:08 PM
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in-state teams from colleges with 1500 students, who are also in conferences where they too cannot pitch their best pitchers during mid-week games. Can Clemson University not get players that can compete with Wofford, Presbyterian, Winthrop, Charleston Southern, Coastal Carolinas, etc., etc. That is not because of student and fan support. It is because he is not getting talented players. Why! Probably not doing the work to find out who the better players are. Maybe that is filtering down through the rest of the coaches - or - maybe they do not have the eye to find talented players. Whatever the reason, it is not the fans fault. To think that is ridiculous!
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Legend [18790]
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I agree. But I side with King on one thing...
May 6, 2015, 5:23 PM
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in that even though Jack needs to go he still needs to be treated with respect.
I just don't understand all the hate. This is not what Clemson is about, not my Clemson anyway.
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All-TigerNet [10635]
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Agree totally !!! I do not understand the vitriol!********
May 6, 2015, 5:32 PM
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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unfortunately the vitriol isn't isolated to some posters...
May 6, 2015, 11:42 PM
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here on tigernet. I think it is very pervasive among our baseball fan base.
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Freshman [0]
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Re: Okey Dokey - then please try and explain why we can't beat
May 6, 2015, 10:55 PM
[ in reply to Okey Dokey - then please try and explain why we can't beat ] |
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Let me go ahead and defend Bradley Leroy. We were teammates at clemson in the late nineties . He is doing a good job recruiting . The problem is we don't have the players to overcome coaching . Kids come in throwing in the 90s and never see the field. Maybe we do need to question coach leggets decision to hire an outfield coach from a division 3 school to be our pitching coach. Also a fact they were offered extensions I last year if he would have fired pepicelli . He wouldn't even though he is one of our problems. So the Bowden spence loyalty factor is there. Yes coach legit has led many teams to World Series and would have won one if he wasn't so tight . Having been recruited by coach Corbin he will never come back to clemson because of loyalty to coach legget. You may see him leave to go to texas here soon.
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CU Guru [1427]
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Re: The downward turn in the baseball program...
May 6, 2015, 5:43 PM
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Very good post tigerking. Jack does deserve to be treated with respect. A lot of Clemson fans tout how Clemson fans are special. When things aren't going well, we have a lot of fans that are an embarrassment to themselves and Clemson University.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Who is Dawn Staley?
May 6, 2015, 5:46 PM
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Cart girl who brings Slurrier his PBRs?
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CU Guru [1464]
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You're blaming this on fans? You sure make some looser posts
May 6, 2015, 9:48 PM
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This is one of the more absurd excuses I've heard.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Just my opinion. Not an excuse....
May 6, 2015, 10:03 PM
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Just an observation of how negative our baseball fan base got towards our team after the shamecocks won their first national title. Like I state in my OP, even Garrett Boulware pointed out the negativity the team was getting from the fans. And it's definitely not an excuse, because I stated it is time for Leggett to retire. I don't doubt there has ever been a college baseball team that has had as much vitriol pointed towards them over the past few years, the way our team has. I think the negativity has on some level created bad atmosphere for the program.
Let's say the negativity has nothing to do with the downward turn, it still doesn't change fact that it has been beyond pathetic how negative our baseball fan base has been towards the team since the shamecocks won their first national title.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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I doubt****
May 6, 2015, 10:09 PM
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Commissioner [922]
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Re: The downward turn in the baseball program...
May 6, 2015, 10:39 PM
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I thought it was a good post, different perspective. 82 grad
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Not the sole factor, but a factor none the less...
May 6, 2015, 11:41 PM
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on fan negativity.
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Head Coach [759]
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I'm surprised you've given up on this team so easily.
May 7, 2015, 7:11 AM
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The season's not over yet. So while you are claiming it is bad, I'm still waiting to see how it ends. If you would get behind this team, they might make a run for the CWS.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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shame cocktail success came because
May 7, 2015, 7:34 AM
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Of jL losing talent because of JL losing games by being out coached when he had better players.it took years to turn the tide and JL should have been replaced before it got to that point. As far as slurrier,his success came as our drop in recruiting when Bowden was fired midseason.Dabo now has had time to reload. That would have never happened if Dabo would have been named coach right away instead of going half a season with out a coach
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Spurrier's success come from Ellis Johnson being his dcoord.
May 7, 2015, 10:13 AM
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And some 4 and 5 star recruits being bought from Rock Hill. Ellis Johnson is long gone, and there haven't been any highly rated players coming out of Rock Hill the past few years, and the shamecocks are back to being one of the worst programs in college football.
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Orange Blooded [2533]
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Lost me at
May 7, 2015, 7:52 AM
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"negativity from fans (basically caused/prevented) Leggett and team to return to top form."
Stopped reading here when you lost cred.
Can't ever blame the demise of any program, any sport, on fans. It always starts at the top, not with the fans.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Sorry, but there hasn't ever been a college baseball team...
May 7, 2015, 10:19 AM
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that has received the vitriol that our team has since 2010. College baseball is a non revenue generating sport, and players and coaches don't have to deal with the pressure that come with the two revenue generating sports in college. My claim is backed up by one of our former players, Garrett Boulware, who stated they liked playing on the road better because of all the fan negativity. But, hey keep on throwing hissy fit over a non revenue generating sport, and a sport where hardly anybody outside of the state of SC keeps up with our team. Save the whining for the two college sports that actually matter. We have been elite in baseball, and will get back their soon.
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