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Topic: The departure of TB
Replies: 37   Last Post: Oct 28, 2020, 5:23 PM by: Injun Tiger
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The departure of TB

[2]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:05 AM
 

I never realized how much Coach TB had lost the locker room. This interview from Cullen Harper seems like he was not liked at all by the players. Its no wonder he offered to resign midseason.

[Athletic director Terry Don Phillips said his intent Monday morning was to have a candid heart-to-heart with Bowden about the football team. But Phillips said he was surprised when Bowden offered to resign.

"There wasn't a gun to his head," Phillips said.

"He put it on the table for the sake of the program," Phillips said. "I agreed."]

This makes me appreciate Dabo even more knowing what he came into being inside of that program and having to reunite and earn the trust of a bunch of teenagers and young men. Amazing...

[Clemson's season started with a big thud, a 24-point loss to then-No. 24 Alabama that senior quarterback Cullen Harper said "really hurt our confidence."

Harper, who was benched after the Tigers' loss to Wake Forest and replaced by highly regarded sophomore Willy Korn, said the program needed to cut ties with Bowden.

"It's what he deserved," Harper said. "Dabo Swinney is a fine man and will do an excellent job."

Later Monday, Harper expanded on his comments, explaining that Bowden "tried to motivate us, but guys were off the bandwagon. There were things I disagreed with and that my teammates disagreed with. I didn't appreciate it when he would say some off-the-wall things about me to the media. I guess one thing I can say is he gave me an opportunity to come to Clemson and play."

Harper struggled playing behind an inexperienced offensive line this season. His father, Jeff Harper, an offensive lineman on Georgia's 1980 national championship team, said Bowden's dismissal was justified.

"I'd call it karma," he said. "I thought it needed to be done. I think anytime a head coach or someone in a leadership position starts to place blame on his coaches and players, it weakens their respect on the team. His past experiences have shown he's done that."]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/news/story?id=3641028

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Yet Bowden insists he was fired.

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:11 AM
 

Either way, while Bowden did some good things while at Clemson, his teams were entirely too inconsistent and he was too prideful to change.

At the end of the day, it was past time for him to go.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Yet Bowden insists he was fired.


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:30 AM
 

I figured he had lost the team when the team would arrive on the bus and Tommy would get out of the car with the highway patrol. He did not even ride with the team.


Seriously? That is odd.***


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 2:10 PM
 



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Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Danny Ford insists he resigned and wasn't fired.


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 2:09 PM
 

I know it's important for coaches to maintain their image, one way or the other, but it's always funny how these coaching changes are worded.

2021 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Bookmarked for when CBB receives his resignation.

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 2:12 PM
 

.

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If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


Cute response.


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 2:54 PM
 

Way to completely miss the point of my post.

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Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Double Bookmarked


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 3:19 PM
 

.

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If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


HE WAS A GOOD CHRISTIAN MAN!!!***

[4]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:12 AM
 



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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: HE WAS A GOOD CHRISTIAN MAN!!!***


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:51 AM
 

Maybe so, but he was a horrible (at least very mediocre) FB coach and as a motivator, he didn't seem to be able even to get a fish to go after a worm.

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I think you're confusing football with fishing. I believe

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:55 AM
 

that's the problem here.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: The departure of TB


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:24 AM
 

I've always heard that one of Dabo's first meetings with the team was when he presented the concept of being "All In".

I've been told he basically said either have everyone's back inside the locker room or you can pack up and leave and we will honor your scholarship for the rest of the school year.

I originally thought that was about players trusting him, but the more I've heard I think there was a big divide in the locker between the players over who had faith in the program and were committed to winning and those who didn't.


Re: The departure of TB

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:36 AM
 

Seems like there were some toxic players let over from Bowden even in 2010.

Tajh said after the Car Care Bowl -

“I was in the locker room after that game in Charlotte, and I sat there as a young player, and our whole team was young at that particular time, but we had some seniors, guys who have been involved with the program for a long time that were not under Coach Swinney’s regime and just did not buy in,” Boyd recalled. “Some of those guys got up after the game and said ‘That you guys will never win anything here. They are going to lie to you and tell you they are going to win ACC Championships. That is not going to happen.’ That was a true statement right there.”

Would be interested to know who was saying that, and how they liked eating crow...


Re: The departure of TB


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 11:23 AM
 

I just went through the 2010 roster.

There are a few older players on that team that Swinney has never mentioned as being part of the "first group that bought in".

Compare that with the probable disgruntled guys who were likely told they would get on the field in their career and never really got much playing time.

I feel like Swinney goes on and on about the guys who helped change the culture and that were "his guys".

There are some clear omissions if you think back while looking at that roster.

There are also a number of older players from that team that he has brought back in to the program in one way or another. I can't imagine many of them were the guys Tajh was talking about.


Re: The departure of TB

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:25 AM
 

Spiller said it best-

"I enjoyed playing for coach Bowden and I liked him, but in the end he was yelling at us to be leaders and it wasn't working. He did all he could to motivate us, but guys weren't buying into what he was saying. And he said a lot of the same things over and over again.

"He let the offensive coordinator [Spence] run the show, and we got away from me and James [Davis]. I think part of the problem was when he benched Cullen. Some people wanted the offensive coordinator fired; [Bowden benched] the quarterback and then he got fired."


I was a Bowden supporter until the loss to Kentucky...

[4]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:31 AM
 

in the Music City Bowl.

Kentucky was ranked something like 110th nationally in rush defense yet CJ Spiller and James Davis touched the ball a combined total of 13 times in that game for a whopping 77 yards.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


And we had a senior laden OL...


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 12:13 PM
 

No excuse to lose that game...


That was horrible coaching.***


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 2:30 PM
 



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Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


i thought it was obvious he needed to go in 2001............

[2]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:38 AM
 

but others were slower to think that. I was told by reliable sources that he didn't speak to people on the plane rides home. He wasn't a people person. I remember him making comments early on about moving potolets out of the parking lot. I guess he didn't like us sinners drinking beer in the parking lot. I thought he was a great hire in 1999 but when RichRod left things went bad. And he seemed to be infatuated with getting Woody every record possible. He never tried to develop Simmons as a quarterback. Then in 2002 Simmons had to start with little experience and things went south. Thankfully we had Whitehurst but we were inconsistent. We would win a big game and then lose one we shouldn't. And TB would talk about how close we were to winning and if we build a better building we would get better players. The day TB left was a day I think everybody said "Thank God thats over"!


I sat through the 45 - 17 beatdown at Wake in 2003...

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:49 AM
 

Wake was up 35 - 0 at the half.

I think I fired Bowden at least a dozen different times during that game.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


That one didn't bother me that much...........


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 11:17 AM
 

Grobe did a great job at Wake and I was hoping that we would fire TB at that point. But destroying FSU and SoCar kept him around. And the bowl win vs Tennessee pulled everybody back in.


Re: i thought it was obvious he needed to go in 2001............

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 12:14 PM
 

One of my friends was a student manager for the team in the early 2000's. He said for those 3 years, the new players were able to recite Bowden's pregame and half time speeches by the 3rd or 4th game. The veterans already knew them word for word from the previous year. He just was not a good motivator.

I am appreciative of Bowden coming in and turning us around from what had been a tough number of years prior. I was there for West's last year, and had come from a high school that had won all of 6 games my entire 4 years. So to win more games than those lost was great by his 2nd year. But man, those last few years with Bowden were kinda rough too.


There was a segment of the fan-base

[2]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 10:50 AM
 

....that was completely clueless about what was really going on.

On the other hand, none of this came as a surprise to many of us. It was fairly obvious the program was stuck in neutral, TB needed to go, and our program (starting with the BOT) needed a major overhaul.

Kudos to TB for stepping down and lobbying for Dabo.

Full Disclaimer: In spite of wanting TB fired for the previous 3-seasons I was not in favor of hiring DABO as HC. I thought it was a really bad decision. Thank goodness for TDP's vision.

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Re: The departure of TB


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 11:07 AM
 

Only one game ever mattered to him, the Bowden Bowl


One of the funniest uof6c slights came from Bowden...

[2]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 11:17 AM
 

He was attending some event and the host played "2001 a Space Odyssey".

When asked about it, Bowden said, " I really like that song. Everytime I hear it, I win."

In fairness, he understood the importance of beating our in-state rival.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: The departure of TB


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 11:08 AM
 

I have always felt once Bowden didnt have Rich as bad cop he was never very good.

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i agree. we were tough to watch in 2001 and 2002..........


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 11:15 AM
 

he finally got things going in 2003 but then we took a step back in 2004. The end of 2005 looked bright and everything looked like we were going to have a great year in 2006. Waters got hurt in the first game and we went to BC and lost. Its really amazing TB lasted as long as he did.


Re: The departure of TB

[4]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 11:17 AM
 

He was pompous but without the wins.
Dabo is humble but with the wins.

Go figure...

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Bowden was never a Clemson man...

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 11:27 AM
 

He rarely used words like "we" or "us" when referring to the University, the program, or the team. To him, Clemson was just a job and a paycheck. Bowden never went out of his way to endear himself to the Clemson family or the community.

In that regard at least (among many others), Dabo is the polar opposite.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Interesting, I never knew Tommy Bowden ever


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 12:51 PM
 

visited the locker room.


He owned the coots.

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 1:38 PM
 

and he brought us dabo.

Message was edited by: MidlandsTiger87®


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"I love this place, I've got a spot already picked out where I want 'em to put me when I die - up there on that ole hill near the stadium. I want to be there so I can hear all them people cheering my Tigers on Saturdays; then I won't have to go Heaven; I'll already be there."- Frank Howard


Re: The departure of TB


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 2:00 PM
 

I do recall a rather large number of Tnetters clamoring for Willy Korn... just sayin... In times of trouble, the backup QB is the most talented guy on the roster. That said - TB made some improvements, and then lost the team. Was time for a change. But the energy at DV was fun at the Bowden Bowl night game, and we hadn't had that in quite some time.

2021 white level member

He never came across like his heart was in it.

[1]
Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 3:03 PM
 

Some say he was arrogant, but I never got that vibe. I viewed it as him being aloof, due to him not truly being an outgoing people person.

He never seemed to enjoy the social aspect of coaching. Perhaps he was different in one on one settings, but when in large groups (such as media appearances) I got the impression that he wasn't really comfortable there.

When viewed through that lens, it isn't surprising that he wasn't a great motivator. Players didn't sense his enthusiasm, nor did he exude confidence. That's a bad combination if you're in a position to lead and motivate.

If we had had better facilities at that time (which in his defense, he pushed for from the start), I do think we would've had more consistent recruiting. That would've allowed Bowden to win more, and probably compete for (and win) an ACC Championship. I don't have any confidence that we would be close to being elite like we are now though.

I appreciate what Tommy Bowden did for us in terms of rescuing us from the horrendous decline we had under Tommy West. He injected an excitement our program needed. We had some fun wins. He ran a clean program and got his players to go to class. All of those things were very important. And most important of all, he hired Dabo. That was his biggest accomplishment.

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Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Well said.


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 4:48 PM
 

I agree with all of that.

I always say, we owe Tommy Bowden a great deal of appreciation. Mostly because of what you describe in your last paragraph.

The hate that a lot of people have toward Bowden is strange to me.

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I knew a couple of players at the time, i was in school


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 3:06 PM
 

it's very true. He totally lost the team. They had no confidence in him.

Batson started giving the pregame speeches. He got them fired up when we whipped FSU.

this was after tommy did the lip quiver at halftime of the wake forest game and teared up.

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Re: The departure of TB


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 5:00 PM
 

I do not put much behind a kid lol ke Cullen Harper that lost his job and many of you were criticizing Harper every week he played.

A bitter player like CH always blames the HC. Sure there were issues with the program. But some of the blame is part of the lack of support he received from the administration, the fans and some players. You can’t dump all of Clemson’s problems on TB. At least he put the program first by doing what he that was best by resigning.

Despite what some say he left Dabo with a good foundation to build from.

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Tommy must have inheritted Momma Bowden's personality


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 5:22 PM
 

With Daddy Bowden being such a colorful character you would have thought he would have had more charisma.

I didn't like Daddy Bowden at the time because they pounded teams, but now we all look back and realize he was a special coach. Although there was some cheatin going on down there.


BTW, Is Terry with our staff this year?***


Posted: Oct 28, 2020, 5:23 PM
 




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