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Replies: 30
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Legend [15212]
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60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
May 12, 2020, 8:47 AM
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Facts: UV light breaks down the virus membrane. So, obviously, the North Stands is the safest place in America. We all understand that.
The upper half of the west end zone, box seating, upper half of south stands must be off limits.
That leaves us with about 60K seats. Day games only, of course.
The other good news with only having 60K is that the other 23K that usually attends can "stay safe" in their homes to ensure the future generation of Clemson fans.
Also, all of the workers are only exposed to 60K people instead of 80K. We are reducing the spread by 20K people. That's a lot of people and a lot of spread reduction.
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CU Guru [1900]
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This has gone on long enough
May 12, 2020, 8:59 AM
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Those who have special reasons to stay home shouldn't be penalized for doing so but those of us who are healthy should be left alone. We know enough about this now to know healthy people aren't in any real danger.
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Team Captain [471]
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Re: This has gone on long enough
May 12, 2020, 9:08 AM
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We've gone over this months and months now. You have to admit you didn't understand it. Yes, the virus might not make you really sick but you, in turn, will transmit to other people that it might make them very sick. How hard is it for people to understand that concept.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised
May 12, 2020, 9:18 AM
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people who could be killed by the transmission of germs from normal activity. The only reason you are freaking out over this particular situation is that you are being brainwashed by panic-spreading news coverage and politicians. Stop getting swept up in group-think and panic p*rn so easily.
Plus, be logical for a second. If immunocompromised people stay quarantined, how does people going to a restaurant make them sick?
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Letterman [250]
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Re: That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised
May 12, 2020, 9:29 AM
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This. Over and over.
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Legend [16327]
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when fauci speaks i remember this
May 12, 2020, 10:59 AM
[ in reply to That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised ] |
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“If I were advising the governor, I would tell him he should be careful. Going ahead and leapfrogging into phases where you should not be … I would advise him not to do that.”
meanwhile georiga is doing pretty good two weeks later
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110%er [5072]
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Re: That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised
May 12, 2020, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised ] |
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Of course there are always people who overreact, just as you have people who underreact. I think though that a virus that's killed over 82,000 people in a 2-3 month people is obviously not the same as "germs from normal activity."
As far as your last comment. I think most agree that we can't just all sit at home for the next 1-2 years or however long. However, I think the whole "people at risk should just sit at home while everyone else goes back to normal" is too basic of an idea without putting a lot of thought into things.
Who gets food, medicine, and other supplies for these high risk people? If the family member or friend doing this for them is going out and living a 100% normal life of seeing everyone at work, stores, sporting events, etc... then wouldn't those high risk people be put at a higher risk when they see them? What about the high risk people who don't have someone available to help them out with these things? Again, my argument isn't to keep everyone at home forever. I'm only saying that it isn't as simple as some try and make it out to be.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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The current plan is not based on reality or science at all.
May 12, 2020, 12:34 PM
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2/3 of all hospitalizations in NYC were from those who were already "quarantining."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shocking-two-thirds-patients-recently-hospitalized-ny-had-been-staying-n1201421
And nearly everyone dying is elderly AND has a serious health problem.
https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-80percent-deaths-20200506-fuhlhtusajb7dd7p6sf5xekl54-story.html
Why? Because all the effort went into a stupid lockdown (for nefarious reasons) and not much effort was put into seriously quarantining individuals most effected. People still get infected from going to the store and having stuff delivered. This is not a rational response. It's bad actors in the government taking advantage of the situation. Inflating the danger is obviously part of that.
The lockdown was only supposed to limit the speed of the spread. It's going to infect people eventually either way. Now that the apocalyptic models have been thoroughly debunked as horribly wrong, we can open back up and get people infected so they can treatment. The vast majority, we now know, don't even require hospital treatment. Evidence is all over the place for those who don't rely on corrupt politicians, bureaucrats and journalists for narrative.
"Was Britain's full lockdown a waste of time? Scientists find blanket stay-at-home orders had little effect on curbing coronavirus outbreaks in Europe.."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8294507/New-study-reveals-blueprint-getting-Covid-19-lockdown.html
The lockdown is going to kill more people in the long run than a .03% (or better) mortality rate Covid would with NO social distancing.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Re: That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised
May 12, 2020, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised ] |
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Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic
Jeffrey A. Tucker
– May 1, 2020
In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide.
Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today. Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to wait to see.
“In 1968/69,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”
And this happened in the lifetimes of every American over 52 years of age.
I was 5 years old and have no memory of this at all. My mother vaguely remembers being careful and washing surfaces, and encouraging her mom and dad to be careful. Otherwise, it’s mostly forgotten today. Why is that?
Nothing was closed by force. Schools mostly stayed open. Businesses did too. You could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. John Fund has a friend who reports having attended a Grateful Dead concert. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 – planned in January during the worse period of death – actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going demographic.
[*Note: an earlier version said no schools closed. But a reader pointed me to an academic article that says “23 [states] faced school and college closures” but implies that this was due to absenteeism. This further underscores how aware people were at the time of the disease; the stay-open practice was a deliberate choice.]
Stock markets didn’t crash because of the flu. Congress passed no legislation. The Federal Reserve did nothing. Not a single governor acted to enforce social distancing, curve flattening (even though hundreds of thousands of people were hospitalized), or banning of crowds. No mothers were arrested for taking their kids to other homes. No surfers were arrested. No daycares were shut even though there were more infant deaths with this virus than the one we are experiencing now. There were no suicides, no unemployment, no drug overdoses attributable to flu.
Media covered the pandemic but it never became a big issue.
As Bojan Pancevski in the Wall Street Journal points out, “In 1968-70, news outlets devoted cursory attention to the virus while training their lenses on other events such as the moon landing and the Vietnam War, and the cultural upheaval of the civil-rights movements, student protests and the sexual revolution.”
The only actions governments took was to collect data, watch and wait, encourage testing and vaccines, and so on. The medical community took the primary responsibility for disease mitigation, as one might expect. It was widely assumed that diseases require medical not political responses.
It’s not as if we had governments unwilling to intervene in other matters. We had the Vietnam War, social welfare, public housing, urban renewal, and the rise of Medicare and Medicaid. We had a president swearing to cure all poverty, illiteracy, and disease. Government was as intrusive as it had ever been in history. But for some reason, there was no thought given to shutdowns.
Which raises the question: why was this different? We will be trying to figure this one out for decades.
Was the difference that we have mass media invading our lives with endless notifications blowing up in our pockets? Was there some change in philosophy such that we now think politics is responsible for all existing aspects of life? Was there a political element here in that the media blew this wildly out of proportion as revenge against Trump and his deplorables? Or did our excessive adoration of predictive modelling get out of control to the point that we let a physicist with ridiculous models frighten the world’s governments into violating the human rights of billions of people?
Maybe all of these were factors. Or maybe there is something darker and nefarious at work, as the conspiracy theorists would have it.
Regardless, they all have some explaining to do.
By way of personal recollection, my own mother and father were part of a generation that believed they had developed sophisticated views of viruses. They understood that less vulnerable people getting them not only strengthened immune systems but contributed to disease mitigation by reaching “herd immunity.” They had a whole protocol to make a child feel better about being sick. I got a “sick toy,” unlimited ice cream, Vicks rub on my chest, a humidifier in my room, and so on.
They would constantly congratulate me on building immunity. They did their very best to be happy about my viruses, while doing their best to get me through them.
If we used government lockdowns then like we use them now, Woodstock (which changed music forever and still resonates today) would never have occurred. How much prosperity, culture, tech, etc. are losing in this calamity?
What happened between then and now? Was there some kind of lost knowledge, as happened with scurvy, when we once had sophistication and then the knowledge was lost and had to be re-found? For COVID-19, we reverted to medieval-style understandings and policies, even in the 21st century. It’s all very strange.
The contrast between 1968 and 2020 couldn’t be more striking. They were smart. We are idiots. Or at least our governments are.
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Re: That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised
May 12, 2020, 2:08 PM
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it never ceases to amaze me how so many people can be herded up like a bunch of sheep. this country is going right down the sh!tter.
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Re: That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised
May 12, 2020, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised ] |
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Very well said. Why do you think so many people are reacting so differently? You pointed out some possibilities but am curious what you think?
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All-Conference [403]
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Re: That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised
May 12, 2020, 2:37 PM
[ in reply to That is true always. There are always immunocomprimised ] |
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people who could be killed by the transmission of germs from normal activity. The only reason you are freaking out over this particular situation is that you are being brainwashed by panic-spreading news coverage and politicians. Stop getting swept up in group-think and panic p*rn so easily.
Plus, be logical for a second. If ——-immunocompromised—- —people stay quarantined, how does people going to a restaurant make them sick?
WOW BIG WORD ALERT ?? ?? ?? BIG WORD ALERT ?? ?? ??
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Legend [15212]
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This is my favorite argument.
May 12, 2020, 9:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: This has gone on long enough ] |
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So your theory is...if we have fans at an outdoor sporting event involving 80K people, then the spread of this virus is gonna rapidly explode.
Meanwhile, for the past 9 months leading up to September, millions of people every single day across America walk in grocery stores, department stores, home depot, office buildings, schools, hospitals, etc.
But, we are concerned about a few Saturdays involving 80K people? I just can't grasp the logic.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: This is my favorite argument.
May 12, 2020, 11:55 AM
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I could be misunderstanding your point, but I think when you say people going into grocery stores, department stores, schools, etc... you're assuming that every other aspect of life goes back to 100% aren't you?
I agree that if everything else is 100% back to normal that there's probably little reason to limit crowds at sporting events. However, at this point we have no idea for sure if schools will be open in the fall, or if stores and restaurants will be open at 100% capacity instead of only allowing a certain amount of people in at a time.
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All-American [559]
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Re: This has gone on long enough
May 12, 2020, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to This has gone on long enough ] |
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its hard to deal with two stupid arguments at the same time.
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Orange Blooded [3134]
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So many questions..
May 12, 2020, 10:42 AM
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-Alumni first? (We all know they are true fans, just joking... or am i?)
-Students first?
-What about family groups, can they sit together? How are you going to tell?
-Do we let fans from Syracuse in?
-I'd like to see the social distancing police tell the students to separate...ain't going to happen after a little alcohol kicks in.
-IPTAY only?
-IPTAY highest bidder?
-Tailgating and parking to maintain social distance... how does that work?
-Concessions, restrooms...are you going to tape off 6' spacings on the floor? The lines will wrap around the stadium.
-Temp checks going in? There will be huge lines unless the university adds tons of checks. Might better have the police with tazers ready. Imagine turning away a drunk fan with a slight temp that just paid big $ for a ticket.
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110%er [5007]
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Re: So many questions..
May 12, 2020, 10:48 AM
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Easy..... only "true" fans allowed.
Now we can argue once again the definition of what constitutes a "true" fan.
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Orange Blooded [3047]
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So who cleans the porta johns after every use?***
May 12, 2020, 12:33 PM
[ in reply to So many questions.. ] |
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All-TigerNet [10798]
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Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
May 12, 2020, 11:16 AM
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No problem in the ACC with having a lot of visiting fans anyway.
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
May 12, 2020, 12:52 PM
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In summary, you are proposing that we adopt the same percentage of attendance or slightly greater than what USC Jr has had in place at halftime and thereafter for as long as I can remember. The gamecocks may have been on to something long before the pandemic.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
May 12, 2020, 1:34 PM
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Don't say UV, that just means a LOT of noon games. Suggesting noon games is akin to wearing garnet in columbia and saying your sister is cute.
Plus only about 1/2 the Clemson tailgate population actually enters the stadium. The rest are crammed into 8x20 or 8x18 spaces.
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
May 12, 2020, 1:41 PM
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it aint going to happen fellows. we have 50 states all doing different things with regard to opening up their economies and universities.The probability we will have a football season, let alone attendance is slim to none. I hope I am wrong.
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
May 12, 2020, 1:52 PM
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You're right. It's hard to play against a team like Syracuse, Virginia, Boston College, etc. that are still on lock-down because they have @$$hat governors that are on a power grab and have extended the lock-down into July already.
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
May 12, 2020, 2:37 PM
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you can blame the governors all you like, they are just following the advice of medical professionals.
I am all for Sweden's approach, But i think the issue is that it will be difficult to get all of the professors on campus, especially the older ones. Without classes, there can be no college football. The NCAA would never allow that.
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
May 12, 2020, 4:39 PM
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So, is the republican governors that have a lower fatality and case rate doing it wrong by opening up earlier than democratic governors? Is nobody concerned that ~50% of all US fatalities come from NY&NJ. That China has 4600K fatalities at 1.4B vs. 80K at .328B? This is where the whole argument becomes flawed when you can't trust the metrics. Birx and others have mentioned that death reports have stated "COVID" even if the PT wasn't positively confirmed or wasn't the root cause. There is no following science or medical when you have rogue Pharm pushing an agenda, a vaccine, or a patented therapeutic drug that shows no more promise than an non-patented therapeutic drug that has been in circulation for 60 years.
Balm as a reputable T-NETTER, you need to get these answers for the sake of football season and sanity in the south!
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
May 12, 2020, 3:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley... ] |
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Tigerbalm1®
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Re: 60K fans are all that should be allowed in the Valley...
Posted: May 12, 2020 1:41 PM
Reply
it aint going to happen fellows. we have 50 states all doing different things with regard to opening up their economies and universities.The probability we will have a football season, let alone attendance is slim to none. I hope I am wrong.
WELL AS LONG AS "YOUR" DEM GOVERNORS KEEP THEIR STATES LOCKED UP THE WORSE IT WILL BE. YOU PEOPLE SHOULD BE VERY ASHAMED THAT YOUR PARTY WOULD PUT OUR COUNTRY THROUGH THIS JUST SO THEY CAN ELECT A PEDOPHILE WITH DEMENTIA. VERY SAD TIMES.
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All-Conference [444]
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No, it'll be 40k max.***
May 12, 2020, 2:22 PM
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Orange Blooded [3220]
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Chicken fans will have no problemo whatsoever
May 12, 2020, 3:49 PM
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social distancing. what do they usually have? 20,000?? ??
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Oculus Spirit [97633]
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My problem would be going to the bathroom at halftime.
May 12, 2020, 4:03 PM
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There's your major problem. Tailgating is ok. Even in the stands, in the sun, with masks, you're pretty ok. Go pee when 60,000 other people go pee, in a packed restroom with no ventilation or sunlight, that's a major problem.
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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Re: My problem would be going to the bathroom at halftime.
May 12, 2020, 4:28 PM
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Actually not. People have studied virus transmission and even without masks to get it without touching one of these has to happen;
Cough on you
Sneeze close in an enclosed room
Talk with you for at least 30 minutes
Sing with you in an closed room
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