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Replies: 64
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: medical marijuana
Jan 25, 2019, 7:41 AM
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Alcohol is probably the most dangerous drug in America at the moment. Well, it kills the most people and causes the most chaos.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: medical marijuana
Jan 25, 2019, 8:45 AM
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Alcohol and sugar are far more dangerous than marijuana. A lot of things are more dangerous than marijuana.
It's a hysteria that is a relic of prohibition. We need full legalization.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: medical marijuana
Jan 25, 2019, 9:31 AM
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x2
Around the 1950s and 1960s, large sugar companies went on a huge lobbying campaign at the federal level to promote sugar. Prior to that, sugar was no where near as popular or highly used as it is today. Now, everything has some kind of processed sugar.
They even went as far as running a national ad campaign saying a sugar based diet is the best type of diet for young children.
Look into it. Your mind will be blown on how ###### up it is.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: medical marijuana
Jan 25, 2019, 12:03 PM
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Even with smokes back in the day they used to try and make them sound healthier.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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"Blow in her face" chick....
Jan 25, 2019, 1:12 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81019]
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When i was a kid, my doctor used to smoke.
Jan 25, 2019, 1:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: medical marijuana ] |
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in his office.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: medical marijuana
Jan 25, 2019, 8:42 AM
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An ounce a week does seem like a lot.
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All-In [42122]
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I understand why a lot of doctors oppose it.
Jan 25, 2019, 8:58 AM
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They often only see the negative effects of the drug.
I also understand why police oppose it. There goes a revenue stream.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I understand why a lot of doctors oppose it.
Jan 25, 2019, 9:00 AM
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You’ve got to wonder why they are ok with prescribing Vicodin then....
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All-In [42122]
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FDA things, I guess.***
Jan 25, 2019, 9:04 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: I don't understand why almost 2/3rds of Americans support
Jan 25, 2019, 9:02 AM
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Too many crotchety old people who still believe it's a gateway drug.
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All-In [42122]
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All-In [28802]
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Aren't people arguing that it'll bring in revenue?
Jan 25, 2019, 10:55 AM
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I don't think loss of revenue is a major issue
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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It cuts revenue for law enforcement, but brings in
Jan 25, 2019, 11:25 AM
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tax revenue for the state. Law enforcement loses out on the search and seizures, as well as reduced budgets because of not making as many arrests.
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All-In [28802]
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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Which I'm sure it will, but it does away with a lot of the
Jan 25, 2019, 11:56 AM
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need for some of these task forces that you see in smaller communities, and reduces a lot of power a cop has. If weed is legal, they can't pull the "I smelled weed in the car" stunt and search you. Which then often result in cash and asset seizures when/if something is found.
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All-In [42122]
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All-In [28802]
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Yes, actually. See above***
Jan 25, 2019, 3:42 PM
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All-In [28802]
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Lot o points [155753]
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CU Medallion [50635]
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Re: The Libertarians have for a while now.
Jan 25, 2019, 2:41 PM
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Obed®
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Because political parties only ever look for leverage.
Jan 25, 2019, 11:47 AM
[ in reply to I don't understand why almost 2/3rds of Americans support ] |
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If there isn't a clear contrast across partisan lines then there isn't much political utility. Nearly all politicians are always doing something for political utility.
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Hall of Famer [24730]
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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All-In [28802]
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Isn't that different that using the street drug?
Jan 25, 2019, 10:56 AM
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I mean, there's a major difference between a scientifically tested, FDA approved medication and a plant in the crude. For some people, that's a feature, not a bug. But I think that difference is why doctors are against medical marijuana.
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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It's kind of asinine to act like a substance in a
Jan 25, 2019, 11:23 AM
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plant poses some sort of huge health risk to the public, be against prescribing it medically, and then replicating it synthetically to prescribe to patients. Pretty transparent what's going on there. Especially when you're standing against laws to open up research into medicinal benefits of marijuana.
Marinol also lacks a lot of the cannabinoids like CBD, which makes it highly concentrated and harder to dose properly. It has many side effects that you don't see with using actual marijuana.
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All-In [28802]
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It's the difference between homeopathy and modern medicine
Jan 25, 2019, 11:35 AM
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The difference is control. That's why, even if the medication is made using the active ingredients from something natural, doctors give you pills instead of prescribing eating or smoking a plant.
My guess is doctors would be for medical marijuana if marijuana were rescheduled and more medications were developed from it.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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Look at all of the CBD pills that are available on the
Jan 25, 2019, 11:49 AM
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market now, you don't have to "eat or smoke a plant" to deliver the dose. I think if what you said were true, there would be much more attention paid to how THC interacts with the other cannabinoid molecules, like CBD, instead of prescribing highly concentrated doses of synthetic THC....For decades. Which again, result in a lot of side effects that you don't see with actual marijuana.
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All-In [28802]
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Isn't that how most medical marijuana is delivered?
Jan 25, 2019, 12:12 PM
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The laws differ in different states, but I don't think they usually specify the form of marijuana.
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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I would imagine so, but a pill would be a lot better for
Jan 25, 2019, 12:23 PM
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a lot of patients, anyway. The 'high' effects aren't as strong, but the other effects (pain relief, relaxation, anti-nausea, etc.) lasts longer.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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you also gotta admit
Jan 25, 2019, 9:38 AM
[ in reply to I understand why a lot of doctors oppose it. ] |
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99% of those getting medical dont need it. In cali it was just a back door to make it legal.
and I'm not against it being legal, just saying, the medical was bs 99% of the time.
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All-In [42122]
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True, but...
Jan 25, 2019, 9:51 AM
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I think you can say that about a lot of meds sometimes...
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Heisman Winner [137847]
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I think there's a decided disconnect WITHIN law enforcement.
Jan 25, 2019, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to I understand why a lot of doctors oppose it. ] |
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Street level cops have largely ignored small amounts of weed for decades, and have done so without permission, because it's paperwork and hassle for mostly non-violent "criminals". And of course, you still have a large percentage of gung ho cowboy cops that can't wait to throw the book at kids with quarter bags, and screw their records for years or longer. Police chiefs, commissioners, city council, etc., who deal with budgets--THOSE are the ones who see the negative revenue effects of decriminalization and legalization, with little consideration for how that revenue stream impacts people on a micro level.
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All-In [28802]
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Have you actually looked at their reasons?
Jan 25, 2019, 10:58 AM
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Seems like people are kind of ignoring what they actually say
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110%er [8243]
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The most dangerous drug?
Jan 25, 2019, 9:04 AM
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On a scale from jaywalking to murder, I would place marijuana around "ripping the tag off a mattress". Meth, heroin, doctor prescribed opioids; those are far more dangerous.
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All-In [42122]
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And opioids are legal. Go figure.***
Jan 25, 2019, 9:09 AM
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All-In [28802]
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A lot aren't, and legal ones are still schedule II***
Jan 25, 2019, 11:10 AM
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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They have no credibility
Jan 25, 2019, 9:09 AM
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Considering their role in prescribing massive amounts of opiates to the unsuspecting general public, the medical establishment has lost all credibility in my book.
Also, there is probably a legitimate fear among police unions that many law enforcement jobs will be lost when marijuana is legalized.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Puppers will finally get some vacation time.
Jan 25, 2019, 9:13 AM
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All-In [28802]
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I understand rejecting public health arguments
Jan 25, 2019, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to They have no credibility ] |
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Sometimes, prohibition of something that will do harm to public health is just too difficult, and not worth that difficulty. That might be the case with marijuana.
However, it's pretty silly to just decide that you don't trust "the medical establishment," in toto, because they relied on studies that turned out to be somewhat untrustworthy (ie. they believed prescription opioids weren't very addictive). Are you now going to trust homeopathy over evidence-based medicine?
And as far as opioids go, few people become addicted by using them as prescribed, especially for acute pain (somewhere around 8% of people prescribed opioids for chronic pain end up with opioid use disorder). The problem is that some doctors didn't do their due diligence on people who were abusing the pills they were prescribed, while others had excess amounts that were diverted. The people who end up moving on to heroin or being frequent abusers of prescription opioids are hardly the "unsuspecting general public," though. And a large majority of people who overdosed on prescription opioids also had other drugs in their systems. So prescription opioids abuse actually looks a lot more like abuse of other drugs, but with a higher chance of overdose (than, say, marijuana).
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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It's not silly to question medical industry's complicity in
Jan 25, 2019, 10:19 PM
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the pushing of opiates into the hands of their patients. If there was ever a time to question healthcare industry's role in the greatest addiction crisis in US history, this is it. There has been a catastrophic failure of leadership. I ain't buying ignorance as an excuse either. They've been basically prescribing a time-released, powdered form of heroin and it's become a scourge on the nation.
According to the American Society of Addiction Medicine, four out of five people who try heroin today started with prescription painkillers. Yet, the FDA approved Oxy with no clinical trials. Why would any doctor simply prescribe this **** based on the basis of marketing efforts of a single company, with no clinical trials? Were the nice junket vacations on the drug company's dime worth their ignorance?
We shouldn't let medical industry off the hook so easily. They actually had everything to do with this mess. And they have the temerity to suggest that marijuana is actually more dangerous?
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/30/the-family-that-built-an-empire-of-pain
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Hall of Famer [24730]
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"..with a higher chance of overdose (than, say, marijuana)."
Jan 26, 2019, 7:37 PM
[ in reply to I understand rejecting public health arguments ] |
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Could you direct me to ANY substantiated case of 'marijuana overdose"? I think that subtle implication is totally absurd. Coy of you, though.
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All-In [28802]
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Dumb statement
Jan 25, 2019, 11:06 AM
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I'm glad the doctors said they disagreed. However, there's also a kind of hysteria around legalization. In nearly all of these debates, there's quite a bit of ignorance- on both sides. Just looking at this thread, there's a lot of misinformation. If you so much as suggest that there are downsides to marijuana legalization, people jump down your throat.
But nearly all the passion right now is on the side of legalization. I know Illinois is expected to legalize it this spring.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Heisman Winner [111489]
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Re: medical marijuana
Jan 25, 2019, 11:21 AM
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I have my MJ script in Florida. It is a cash cow. Most of the dispensaries can barely keep stock> I see anyting from old grannies, to aputees, to causal dopers like me.
The real value of it though is as an anti seizure medication, but as mentioned above the old farts throw a fit at the thought of a parent giving cannabis to their child, even though most of the THC has been removed or bred out of the plant.
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All-In [28802]
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Re: medical marijuana
Jan 25, 2019, 11:31 AM
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https://doi.org/10.17226/24625
There is conclusive or substantial evidence that cannabis or cannabinoids are effective:
For the treatment of chronic pain in adults (cannabis) (4-1)
As antiemetics in the treatment of chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting (oral cannabinoids) (4-3)
For improving patient-reported multiple sclerosis spasticity symptoms (oral cannabinoids) (4-7a)
There is moderate evidence that cannabis or cannabinoids are effective for:
Improving short-term sleep outcomes in individuals with sleep disturbance associated with obstructive sleep apnea syndrome, fibromyalgia, chronic pain, and multiple sclerosis (cannabinoids, primarily nabiximols) (4-19)
There is limited evidence that cannabis or cannabinoids are effective for:
Increasing appetite and decreasing weight loss associated with HIV/AIDS (cannabis and oral cannabinoids) (4-4a)
Improving clinician-measured multiple sclerosis spasticity symptoms (oral cannabinoids) (4-7a)
Improving symptoms of Tourette syndrome (THC capsules) (4-8)
Improving anxiety symptoms, as assessed by a public speaking test, in individuals with social anxiety disorders (cannabidiol) (4-17)
Improving symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder (nabilone; a single, small fair-quality trial) (4-20)
There is limited evidence of a statistical association between cannabinoids and:
Better outcomes (i.e., mortality, disability) after a traumatic brain injury or intracranial hemorrhage (4-15)
There is limited evidence that cannabis or cannabinoids are ineffective for:
Improving symptoms associated with dementia (cannabinoids) (4-13)
Improving intraocular pressure associated with glaucoma (cannabinoids) (4-14)
Reducing depressive symptoms in individuals with chronic pain or multiple sclerosis (nabiximols, dronabinol, and nabilone) (4-18)
There is no or insufficient evidence to support or refute the conclusion that cannabis or cannabinoids are an effective treatment for:
Cancers, including glioma (cannabinoids) (4-2)
Cancer-associated anorexia cachexia syndrome and anorexia nervosa (cannabinoids) (4-4b)
Symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome (dronabinol) (4-5)
Epilepsy (cannabinoids) (4-6)
Spasticity in patients with paralysis due to spinal cord injury (cannabinoids) (4-7b)
Symptoms associated with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (cannabinoids) (4-9)
Chorea and certain neuropsychiatric symptoms associated with Huntington’s disease (oral cannabinoids) (4-10)
Motor system symptoms associated with Parkinson’s disease or the levodopa-induced dyskinesia (cannabinoids) (4-11)
Dystonia (nabilone and dronabinol) (4-12)
Achieving abstinence in the use of addictive substances (cannabinoids) (4-16)
Mental health outcomes in individuals with schizophrenia or schizophreniform psychosis (cannabidiol) (4-21)
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Heisman Winner [111489]
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Hall of Famer [24730]
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Freudian slip or just funnin'...? "Causal" or casual doper?***
Jan 26, 2019, 7:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: medical marijuana ] |
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Not enough people have died off yet.
Jan 25, 2019, 11:50 AM
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Funny how the GOP mainstreamers pretend they want a less powerful government.... except on everything they want to force other people to do.
It does more harm than good to keep it a controlled substance.
Immigration, tax revenue, individual liberty, police priorities, our overwhelmed criminal justice system.... all of these things would be improved if we would legalize it.
And I have no interest in ever using it.
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All-In [28802]
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How important of an issue is it to you, though?
Jan 25, 2019, 12:23 PM
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I'd probably rather we keep the status quo, but I also don't think it's going to be too bad if we do legalize it. It's waaaaay down the list of important issues for me. Working with doctors has made me realize, though, that there might be some pretty significant public health risks.
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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I don't care about recreational, I'm going to do whatever I
Jan 25, 2019, 12:29 PM
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want anyway. But for those of us with family members or friends going through chemo, or something similar, it is a highly important issue. If you can prescribe someone going through chemo marinol, let them have the real #### thing. Especially if the other option is loading them up on opiates. If it needs to be highly regulated, fine, whatever.
I don't see a whole lot of logical reasons to oppose medical marijuana, unless one is worried about it mission creeping into full legalization....And even then, I find that irrational, but that's another argument.
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110%er [8243]
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My niece is autistic. Can talk and feed herself, but that is
Jan 25, 2019, 12:42 PM
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about it (she is 24). My brother has tried a lot of prescription and over-the-counter things through the years to calm her in stressful situations, but has found that CBD oil is the only thing that works. When they know they are going to do something that she will find stressful, they mix it in her oatmeal in the morning. Without that, she would scream, bang her head, etc. until the she can get somewhere calm.
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Heisman Winner [111489]
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keeps me calm at work.
Jan 25, 2019, 3:57 PM
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I wonder if my cooworkers question why I take walks around the building every couple hours. Oh well, I really do not care if they know I get stoned all day.
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All-In [28802]
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That sounds like something you need therapy for***
Jan 25, 2019, 4:11 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Antidepressants have a tiny chance of turning some people
Jan 25, 2019, 8:06 PM
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Into psychopathic murderers. Marijuana.... doesn’t. Psychology is a pseudoscience anyway. It’s more of an art. I am more comfortable with someone smoking pot to relax than I am someone going on antidepressants prescribed by a shrink.
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Oculus Spirit [81019]
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I wouldn't go protest for it.
Jan 25, 2019, 1:05 PM
[ in reply to How important of an issue is it to you, though? ] |
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But if it were on a ballot I'd make it a point to vote for its legalization.
That's about as active as I get concerning anything political.
And I don't use weed at all.
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All-In [28802]
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It barely moves the needle for me
Jan 25, 2019, 1:12 PM
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I do get annoyed with all the misinformation on both sides, though, and with the "argument" that it's just "time" to do it.
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Oculus Spirit [81019]
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I think the medical benefits alone make it "time" to do it.
Jan 25, 2019, 1:36 PM
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The DEA still ridiculously rates marijuana as a schedule 1 drug, an as such warrants similar criminal penalties for its possession.
Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are:
heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote
https://www.dea.gov/drug-scheduling
The more I learn about how our government really operates, it just makes me wonder why. Where is the money coming from to cause that rating?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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The fact our massive-ass government
Jan 25, 2019, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to How important of an issue is it to you, though? ] |
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can't get to more than a handful of issues every 4 years is such a tragic irony.
For anyone who cares about immigration and criminal justice reform, it's a massive issue.
It should be overturned once and for all as soon as possible so we can start reaping the benefits and move on.
It's a low hanging fruit and a no brainer.
There are pretty significant health risks to a million other things. The distinction is arbitrary.
There is a better argument for prohibition than there is for making pot illegal. And I drink but I don't smoke.
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All-In [28802]
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I kind of think the downsides or prohibition are...
Jan 25, 2019, 3:45 PM
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blown out of proportion, similar to how the downsides of marijuana are blown out of proportion. Part of the reason for this is, of course, that not enough research has been done to really know about the benefits and harms of marijuana. And why is that? Largely because marijuana is a schedule I drug.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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That’s like saying the downside of communism is overblown.
Jan 25, 2019, 8:02 PM
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History already answered that one for us. Same with prohibition. It was a massive failure and did much more harm than good.
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All-In [42122]
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Re: How important of an issue is it to you, though?
Jan 25, 2019, 2:34 PM
[ in reply to How important of an issue is it to you, though? ] |
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I consider it important. Too many people are going to prison over something that's far less harmful than alcohol, and our federal government wastes a lot of tax dollars trying to stop it.
Importance isn't really the issue, though. It just boils down to the fact that it doesn't make sense to keep it a crime.
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All-In [28802]
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Eh, that could be addressed by decriminalization
Jan 25, 2019, 3:47 PM
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I think it makes sense to keep it a crime, but I also think it would make sense to make it legal. What I wonder is why there's so much energy for legalization now. It's not like we've discovered much new, and a lot of the things that are coming out about marijuana now aren't great. My guess is it has a lot to do with the way we're trending liberal socially.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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We are trending towards centralization and totalitarianism.***
Jan 25, 2019, 8:08 PM
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