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Oculus Spirit [90819]
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Well..glad Ben helped get Clemson A&M started b/4 we eliminate him from history!
Jul 17, 2015, 6:23 PM
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Ha..what fools are we to think that none of our relatives going back 450 years didn't do something despicable..so we honor them for the good and dishonor them for the bad..but we shouldn't try to erase them as they didn't ever exist..since history is history..which means we can learn its lessons and hope to do better.
GoTiGERS
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110%er [5013]
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Ditto! Great post!***
Jul 17, 2015, 6:33 PM
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Like The Joseph Goebbels School of Marketing at Berlin U?
Jul 17, 2015, 6:56 PM
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Who remembers anybody for more than 3 weeks without a statue and a building named after them? It's like they never existed.
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Orange Blooded [4837]
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Re: Well..glad Ben helped get Clemson A&M started b/4 we eliminate him from history!
Jul 17, 2015, 7:02 PM
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Agree.
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All-TigerNet [12539]
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If he did half the things he himself bragged about doing,
Jul 17, 2015, 7:02 PM
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then he should have been put in prison for life and perhaps tried for capital murder. If you love Tillman so much, you can take solace in the fact that he got away with his evil deeds.
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All-Conference [400]
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lightbulbbill post.
Jul 17, 2015, 7:15 PM
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Why don't you let the BoT and the powers that be handle it. Maybe you can write them a letter bragging how you were the "flag guy" in the 80s.
The name was changed from Old Main to Tillman because his son squeezed out the BOT to change the name because he thought people would not remember his daddy. That may go to show that no one really cared in the 40s about Tillman, and a low blow move when the college was hurting for funds.
Old Main sounds cooler anyways.
Also heard a story that Tillman was really just the lawyer or lobbyist that helped Clemson become a college and was paid to do so. Not really sure how true that was but it may give a perspective on his true role in setting up the college.
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All-In [38427]
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Re: lightbulbbill post.
Jul 17, 2015, 7:25 PM
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Old Tiger Main ...that is a really cool new name .
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All-TigerNet [12539]
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Uh hello, I think I'm in agreement the name needs to be
Jul 17, 2015, 7:35 PM
[ in reply to lightbulbbill post. ] |
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changed. Reading comprehension might not be your thing.
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All-Conference [400]
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I said lightbulbbill post
Jul 17, 2015, 7:39 PM
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and I hit reply to his post. I'm not sure how it got below yours.
Pretty sure if you read it you could tell I was not referring to you. Unless you're really the "flag guy" from the 80s that reminds people of this on Tnet daily.
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All-In [32653]
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Wise Tiger ????? You sound way more like
Jul 19, 2015, 8:47 AM
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A**hole Tiger.
And I'm sure that makes you happy.
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All-Conference [400]
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And you'd be another
Jul 19, 2015, 9:05 AM
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If Dabo (DatBoy!!!) came out and said the name of the building should be changed.
I guess I'm the a$$hole for thinking that the biggest homer on the board would not change his tune if DatBoy!! Said do it, then I guess I'm the Ahole
What say you???!!!!
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CU Guru [1679]
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Re: Well..glad Ben helped get Clemson A&M started b/4 we eliminate him from history!
Jul 17, 2015, 7:28 PM
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Well, Ben's problem is that he was no ordinary bigot. Almost all white people of that time were racists. That is the way things were. But, Tillman took racism to levels that one might say were a little too far. Once he was asked if he would try to do anything about the lynchings of black men that were going at the time. He replied yeah, that he would buy the rope.
Message was edited by: tinker®
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: Well..glad Ben helped get Clemson A&M started b/4 we eliminate him from history!
Jul 17, 2015, 9:14 PM
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If you think about it, he was simply a shrewd politician, pandering to what (white) people wanted to hear. There is a good chance that many of the things attributed to him were simply boisterous claims to boost his "stature" among the common man at the time, back when the fear that the "boogie man" (black men) would be the downfall of "civilization" as they (white man) knew it...especially given the reconstruction government put in place after the civil war, where gasp, black men were in positions of power.
I suspect many a politician of the day spouted similar comments and claims about their "deeds" to suppress the black populace, Tillman was just better at it.
Reconstruction was a very violent time and not just in SC, but across the south:
Anyway, not a bad read here of certain "events" of the day, even if it's from a USCe PhD student: http://www.screconstruction.org/Reconstruction/Home.html
Probably a better result would be an all out exhibit to the plusses (and there really were some) and the minuses, of which there were many. Better to tell history than to delete it.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Well..glad Ben helped get Clemson A&M started b/4 we eliminate him from history!
Jul 17, 2015, 8:30 PM
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Changing the name doesn't erase Ben Tillman from history, it puts him where he belongs...in history.
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Oculus Spirit [90819]
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nothing like pushy, know it all, hypocritical or weak liberals.
Jul 17, 2015, 9:24 PM
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Ha, did I step on your toes?! Well, get over it since you're only about 25% of the population but seemingly 110% of the brains & morality that we're fed daily from your bias political media.
Listen uP.. one really mixed-up Southern White guy killing 9 innocent Black Christians doesn't mean every bldg or monument or statue in the South of some White guy, general, politician or racist should be torn down or renamed.
Where were you in 1866 or 1966 or 2006 when the same bldg, statues or people needed criticizing?!
Saying, let's not throw out the baby with the dirty water. Yes, it's a good time to rethink these old social & racial issues that blatantly offend a minority group, but not a time to quickly railroad or delete all the history that others deem important to them of their ancestors..good or bad.
GoTiGERS!
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All-Conference [400]
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Meh. If Dabo or Chad Kelly demanded
Jul 17, 2015, 9:36 PM
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That Tillman be renamed, at Clemson, you'd be there at the renaming ceremony, especially if Dabo said it. Likely would be front and center so you could lick his boots. God forbid if a big time recruit really came out and said they would not consider CU because of the Tillman name. You and the biggest homers on here would likely break a hip.
They're doing a research of the history, but some of you old men have to knee jerk response when you really don't know the history as well.
It's the BoT decision. Those guys you also would lick their boots.
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All-In [32653]
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Chad Kelly ????? Hahahahhahhhahaha ....
Jul 19, 2015, 10:13 AM
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Your feathers are showing, poser.
Too funny.
And you call out other's reading comprehension when you're sentence structure and ability to convey a clear, concise point is highly questionable at best.
And you're pulse rate is the final indicator.
Yeah - a**hole poser.
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All-Conference [400]
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you still cannot answer a simple question
Jul 19, 2015, 10:25 AM
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From another thread where I asked you where my history was incorrect.
You can call me a coot, whatever, I'm an alum, Class of 1995.
I'm not sure where my pulse rate came from, been a poster here since 2001.
And, if you knew lightbulbbbill's obsession with Chad Kelly, you'd get the response.
Or, just bash me. Feathers are showing.....how am I a chicken? Because I don't agree with your idiocy?
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110%er [9300]
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Re: nothing like pushy, know it all, hypocritical or weak liberals.
Jul 19, 2015, 2:18 AM
[ in reply to nothing like pushy, know it all, hypocritical or weak liberals. ] |
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D@mn get em' Bill!
I have never seen a negative, or aggressive post from you in your whole time here. I like it!
Still say DEROBERTS is your angry alter ego
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CU Guru [1482]
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Re: nothing like pushy, know it all, hypocritical or weak liberals.
Jul 19, 2015, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to nothing like pushy, know it all, hypocritical or weak liberals. ] |
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> Ha, did I step on your toes?! Well, get over it since
> you're only about 25% of the population but seemingly
> 110% of the brains & morality that we're fed daily
> from your bias political media.
>
Wow Bill. You create a post about "history", people try to enlighten you about history, and you resort to name calling, labeling, and pulling numbers out of your butt because your perspective didn't get all the rah-rahs you thought it would.
One would think you'd have the sense and maturity to be more intelligent than that, but then you'd probably also realize this forum is called "Football" and there's a whole 'nother one here called "politics".
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Oculus Spirit [83119]
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How does taking someone's name off a building eliminate
Jul 17, 2015, 9:26 PM
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them from history? In fact, the BOT's statement was a great lesson in history.
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CU Guru [1071]
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The LAST thing we should do is eliminate him from history!
Jul 18, 2015, 12:28 AM
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We should hold him up as the Dylann Roof of the 19th century - a sadistic killer and political terrorist. His role in helping Clemson College get started was actually relatively minor - although by the 1890s he had become a fairly effective advocate of "progressive farming." Doesn't erase the fact that he was a cold-blooded murderer. And it doesn't make him any more important to the founding of the university than, say, Richard Simpson.
Message was edited by: OldSchool Tiger®
Message was edited by: OldSchool Tiger®
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CU Guru [1741]
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nope. My ancestors didn't go on record in Congress to justify lynching and Jim Crow.
Jul 18, 2015, 10:02 AM
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I get your logic. But Ben Tillman is an exception.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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He isn't being eliminated from history, his name is going to
Jul 18, 2015, 10:15 AM
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removed from a building. His name on Tillman Hall, was the only acknowledgement by Clemson University of Ben Tillman. So Clemson had pretty much renounced him already. And his name would have never been assigned to the main building if it wasn't for his son being on the board of trustees, who was worried his father was being forgotten.
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Rock Defender [61]
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Re: Well..glad Ben helped get Clemson A&M started b/4 we eliminate him from history!
Jul 18, 2015, 10:30 AM
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Yes a good deed will wash murder right away.
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Rock Defender [61]
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Re: Well..glad Ben helped get Clemson A&M started b/4 we eliminate him from history!
Jul 18, 2015, 10:31 AM
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Yes a good deed will wash murder right away.
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Legend [19945]
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There is a pretty big difference between
Jul 19, 2015, 6:35 AM
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choosing not to honor someone, on the one hand, and removing them from history (whatever that even means), on the other. There have been many horrible people who have done many horrible things. Should we name important buildings and landmarks after all of them, so as to not forget them?
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110%er [5013]
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Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln memorials too?
Jul 19, 2015, 8:09 AM
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They all were not against slavery and at various points in their lives believed slaves not equal as a people. Lincoln embraced emancipation only as an opportunistic tool to get his army and support for his war motivated again.
Should these memorials be removed too? What about Mt. Rushmore? I mean if Stone Mtn needs to go, then why stop there?
I am in no way implying we should keep Tillman on the name of our Main Building. He was an especially bad guy. But all of this push to whitewash history in the name of stopping racism (which is extremely rare in America today in my opinion) can go on and on and on.... It is a fool's errand.
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CU Medallion [60229]
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what about the town of Tillman?
Jul 19, 2015, 9:41 AM
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they need to change it for the better good. Wouldn't want anybody to drive through that town and be offended and angered. Could cause a wreck.
Lee County has to go also. Hampton, Bamberg too. All those places named after English Lords like Colleton, Clarendon, Beaufort - evil men who controlled feudal serfs, whose lives may have been even worse than slaves. Their names have no business being honored.
Columbia - named afer Columbus. What a brute. Committed many crimes against humanity. He enslaved Native Americans and slaughtered many others. That name HAS to go.
Oh, and Charleston - King Charles was a very offensive character. Many men gave their lives to free our land from the tyrannical rule of the royal throne. And the STATE of South Carolina honored the throne - we need a new state name!!
Thousands of cities, counties, even state names are offensive and need to be removed from history forever. Replace with names of flowers and bunnies.
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All-Conference [400]
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It was King Charles II
Jul 19, 2015, 9:49 AM
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If you're going to bash the namesake of Charleston, get the namesake correct.
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CU Medallion [60229]
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I know, Charles 2 was Charleston, Charles 1 was SC
Jul 19, 2015, 9:54 AM
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didn't think anybody would be so nitpicky. It was entire royal throne I was referencing, not so much specific rulers. William, Charles, George, etc - the entire line of them is what made us go to war against them, yet we still honor their names.
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All-Conference [400]
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Then, petition Haley and request a name change
Jul 19, 2015, 10:04 AM
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The overreaction to a task force researching the history of the person who name is on a building at Clemson is fasinating.
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CU Medallion [60229]
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I am attempting to highlight the absurdity of it all
Jul 19, 2015, 10:10 AM
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the frailty of the collective human psyche today under the guise of political correctness is quite disturbing.
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All-Conference [400]
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and, it's in the BoT's hands
Jul 19, 2015, 10:19 AM
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And people on both sides go apeshat over it? Litebulbhomerbill all freaked out, every monument in SC is going to go, Clemson is going to go, etc. I know you're trying to be funny, which is why I responded with the Charles II because the response is absurd.
It's the BoT's decision, the guys & gals responsible for these things and I think there doing this correctly. There are some pretty smart & successful people on that board, so let them do their job without homer football fans blabbing about nonsense but fail to state their opinions to those who are the actual decision makers.
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CU Medallion [60229]
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I'll still call it Tillman for the rest of my life no matter
Jul 19, 2015, 10:44 AM
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what, but if they want future generations to call it Bojangles Hall, I'm fine with that.
I still just say two "Fights" in the cadence cheer, not three, and defiantly refuse to Whoo-Hoo, so I'm a lost cause with stuff like this, but it's not about me.
Things change, always have and always will. But I do wonder how they will be able to whitewash the absolute impossibility of the existence of Clemson University without Ben Tillman's influence and drive to establish an agricultural college in South Carolina, when kids 50 years from now ask.
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All-Conference [400]
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i think that's why the called the task force.
Jul 19, 2015, 10:52 AM
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There may be misconception and generally a "nobody really knows" going on. I've heard Tillman was really a paid lobbyist/lawyer politician who could just do things and not really that inspiration we all want to know & love.
The papers are likely at Clemson. The name was changed in 1946. So, if Tillman was SO instrumental then why no naming of him when Clemson was founded?
There's this & that, the BoT says they're going to research it. Right now, that's it. From the people put in place to make these decisions.
But, I'll now be called a coot for supporting our BoT's. So fun to be a Clemson alum these days.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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110%er [5021]
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Re: Well..glad Ben helped get Clemson A&M started b/4 we eliminate him from history!
Jul 19, 2015, 11:39 AM
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I just think it's funny that you call peple who supported the change "liberals" but haven't one addressed the hypocrisy within the BOT. The same clowns that decided to not change the name and then change after they got a little pressure. That's as about as sickening as you trying to justify honoring a murderer. Don't reply, not in the mood to hear about how "majority of whites were racist back then". Would you want to build a statue of someone who murdered a member of your family?
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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"Old Main" it is. I like it! And it's historical.***
Jul 19, 2015, 12:43 PM
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Orange Blooded [3507]
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Nevermind...Penn State already has it. Belay my last.***
Jul 19, 2015, 12:49 PM
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