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Orange Blooded [4559]
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The Big Mess OP left from Brownell
Mar 10, 2013, 4:21 PM
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-3 straight NCAA tournament berths (1st time in school's history)
-6 consecutive wins over Cooterville
-2nd worst road loss ever for Coach K in that old, wretched, needs to be torn down Littlejohn Coliseum.
-College Gameday, where Digger Phelps said it was the loudest show they had ever broadcasted. Again, in that craphole called Littlejohn Coliseum.
-ACC Tournament Championship Game vs. UNC
What about that HORRIBLE team Brownell inherited? BB Inherited:
-2nd and 3rd leading scorers in Demontez Stitt and Tanner Smith
-2nd leading rebounder in Jerai Grant
-Leading 3 pt. shooter in Andre Young
-A sophomore class that featured the highest rated recruiting class in Clemson history with Devin Booker 4*, Milton Jennings 5*,Noel Johnson 4* and Donte Hill 3*
What a fine mess OP left Brownell with indeed.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: The Big Mess OP left from Brownell
Mar 10, 2013, 4:23 PM
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Looking at the trees and not the forest.
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Orange Blooded [4559]
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Re: The Big Mess OP left from Brownell
Mar 10, 2013, 4:28 PM
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Really? Give me reasons why? I'm dying to hear this.
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All-Conference [400]
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What's your point?***
Mar 10, 2013, 4:29 PM
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Legend [19352]
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Re: The Big Mess OP left from Brownell
Mar 10, 2013, 4:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Big Mess OP left from Brownell ] |
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Left in the middle of the night VERY late in the recruiting cycle leaving basically no recruits for that year.
Most of his "highly ranked" recruiting class were busts.
Noel Johnson sucks at Auburn
Booker turned out to be an above average player
Milton is awful
The other guy cant remember his name transferred to a small school and doest play.
That leaves you with basically no upperclassmen and the two we have arent that great.
That is the forest.
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Orange Blooded [4559]
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BB had Jennings and Booker for THREE yrs. So blame OP?
Mar 10, 2013, 4:36 PM
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You're kidding right? Marcus Thornton was a 4* guy who didn't want to play in BB's high-scoring offense, so asked for his release. Who did BB replace him with? Corey Stanton. A 5-10 point guard that couldn't start in the Big South Conference.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: BB had Jennings and Booker for THREE yrs. So blame OP?
Mar 10, 2013, 4:50 PM
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what part of OP leaving late in the process was hard to understand.
Thorton the guy who is doing nothing at UGA another would be bust.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: BB had Jennings and Booker for THREE yrs. So blame OP?
Mar 10, 2013, 4:51 PM
[ in reply to BB had Jennings and Booker for THREE yrs. So blame OP? ] |
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what difference does it make how long he had Milton or Booker?
Milton was a head case and Booker played lazy most games.
You seem to think OP left this place in great shape which in reality is false.
His late departure screwed over what ever coach came in due to that recruiting cycle being all but done with.
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Orange Blooded [4559]
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My bad. You're right. Jennings and Booker was not in any way
Mar 10, 2013, 4:54 PM
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the two best players on this team. Those two "busts" gave Clemson no production at all. Brownell has done a FINE job of replacing talent.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: My bad. You're right. Jennings and Booker was not in any way
Mar 10, 2013, 4:57 PM
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You mean upperclassmen at Clemson contribute more than freshmen? You mean that Clemson isnt a place that brings in big time freshmen that make immediate impacts?
Alert the press!
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: My bad. You're right. Jennings and Booker was not in any way
Mar 10, 2013, 5:34 PM
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Purnell had Stitt start 20 games as a freshmen and rode a Sophomore Booker on the same team to the NCAA tournament.
Stitt's 20 freshmen starts are more freshmen starts than Hall, Roper, Coleman, and Filer combined for.
Jerai Grant as a freshman also averaged more minutes than either Nnoko and Smith has.
In 2007-08 Oglesby and Stitt averaged the same amount of minutes as Roper and Filer have.
Purnell could play his freshmen in key roles and make the NCAA Tournament.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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You're right becuase OP had more talented players
Mar 10, 2013, 5:45 PM
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Plain and simple the reason we are losing is becuase we don't have the talent or experience yet to pull out close games. We will get the experience but talent only comes through recruiting and that will determine BB's tenure here at Clemson
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Legend [19352]
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CU Guru [1198]
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That was Purnell's 5th season
Mar 10, 2013, 6:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: My bad. You're right. Jennings and Booker was not in any way ] |
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Sitt Oglesby and Grant played with returners
Trevor Booker So (started every game as FR)
Cliff Hammonds Sr
James Mays Sr
Sam Perry Sr
David Potter So
K.C. Rivers Jr
Raymond Sykes Jr
Compared to this year...
Devin Booker Sr
Rod Hall so
Milton Jennings Sr
K.J. McDaniels So
Bernard Sullivan So
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CU Guru [1198]
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They had 3 years experience over the entire team
Mar 10, 2013, 5:04 PM
[ in reply to My bad. You're right. Jennings and Booker was not in any way ] |
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That's the arguement. No depth. Not that Purnell sucked.
What Purnell did leave, that inexperienced first group, Brownell managed to win a NCAA tournament game.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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The recruiting class
Mar 10, 2013, 6:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Big Mess OP left from Brownell ] |
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Johnson was a bust, Hill transferred out, and Jennings never panned out to be the elite prospect he was projected to be
The next class' only recruit, Stanton transferred too
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Legend [15914]
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Legend [16136]
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Barnes went to 3 straight NCAA's and actually managed to
Mar 10, 2013, 4:32 PM
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win a game...And that "great Class"? That is why OP fled...
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Orange Blooded [2030]
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OP situation went off ###### and TDP wanted to save $
Mar 10, 2013, 4:44 PM
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OP did what most coaches do year end and year out...he tried to let TDP know that DePaul contacted him with more money and what would TDP do to counter. After an entire period of 4 days (Thursday to Monday) TDP would not return calls from OP's agent and OP left the building. HE DID NOT WANT TO GO! If your boss won't talk to you, what do you think negoitations for your next contract will be like. These are facts.
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CU Guru [1198]
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No, those are NOT facts.***
Mar 10, 2013, 4:48 PM
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Legend [16136]
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Legend [16136]
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Legend [19352]
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: The Big Mess OP left from Brownell
Mar 10, 2013, 4:39 PM
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How about you write the check for the new arena.
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Orange Blooded [3974]
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Legend [16136]
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Well, he's only been there THREE years...Give him 3 more and
Mar 10, 2013, 5:16 PM
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they'll be losing in the first round...Just you wait and see...
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Legend [18663]
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Bottom line. OP and BB fielded teams with scoring issues.
Mar 10, 2013, 5:02 PM
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If you can't score enough you can't beat a good team when all you have is a good/average defense. This has hurt BOTH coaches. Good defense and Good offense is what Clemson needs to beat good teams from any conference.
You don't get to or go far in the NCAA tourney being weak on one side of the ball !
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Bottom line. OP and BB fielded teams with scoring issues.
Mar 10, 2013, 5:24 PM
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OP's teams had some offensive issues, but not scoring issues. He broke 75 points a lot. We did that only 5 times this year. Taco Bell or Bojangles could drop the ticket reward to 70 and we would rarely hit that mark with Brownell.
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Legend [16136]
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Our opponents broke 70 alot too...And OP's teams certainly
Mar 10, 2013, 5:30 PM
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had stretches where they couldn't score as well...
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Some stretches where we couldn't score
Mar 10, 2013, 5:40 PM
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but he never had a 6 game losing streak, which will probably be 7 on Thursday. He also had one year where he didn't make the NIT or NCAA. We are going on year 2 of neither.
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Legend [16136]
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Brad hasn't blown a 17 point lead to a 12 seed yet either...***
Mar 10, 2013, 5:44 PM
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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He hasn't made the ACC Tournament Final either***
Mar 10, 2013, 5:50 PM
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Legend [16136]
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Only two coaches at Clemson can say that...***
Mar 10, 2013, 5:56 PM
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CU Guru [1198]
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: That's by design
Mar 10, 2013, 5:36 PM
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Obviously, but when you can score 75, it gives you more room for error. Brownell has very little room for error when his team struggles to make 60. We can agree on that. That showed up in the Miami game. We played well all game, but one late 3 killed us. We held a team to 45 points, but couldn't win because we simply cannot score.
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Legend [16136]
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No, with OP we would have lost 83 to 80...Big Difference?***
Mar 10, 2013, 5:43 PM
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Big Difference? We would be in the NCAA Tournament***
Mar 10, 2013, 5:48 PM
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Legend [16136]
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For exactly 40 minutes...and not a SECOND more...***
Mar 10, 2013, 5:50 PM
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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So you would rather stay at home than possibly fail?***
Mar 10, 2013, 5:51 PM
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Legend [16136]
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I would rather win a game than lose three straight, each L
Mar 10, 2013, 5:55 PM
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worse than the next...Think OP would have taken us to a fourth?
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: I would rather win a game than lose three straight, each L
Mar 10, 2013, 6:01 PM
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Yes, we would have gone in 2010-11. Would we have won to get to the round of 32? Maybe, no way to know. I do know that we would not be 5-13 and on a 6 game losing streak with him right now with next year looking to be just as bad or worse.
OP and Brownell are good coaches at what they do. However, the biggest difference is talent. Good players make good coaches. Purnell could get basketball players here and win with them. All Brownell has proven is that he can win some with Purnell's kids. He has brought in no PG talent or big men talent. I may amend them first part of that sentence if he starts playing Filer at point, but Hall is not the answer. OP went to the NCAA tourney with Sam Perry and David Potter starting. He could obviously go far with role players starting.
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Legend [16136]
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BB has signed more PG's in 3 years than OP did in his
Mar 10, 2013, 6:06 PM
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entire tenure...OP signed Stitt, Mathis and Young...Who did I miss?
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Legend [16136]
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WE were SOOOO devoid of ballhandlers, he tried KC at the
Mar 10, 2013, 6:08 PM
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point for stretches when Hammonds(a SG) got injured...
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Jennings and Devin Booker were a mess, and it would….
Mar 10, 2013, 5:44 PM
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have hurt OP too. No coach would have had a successful team depending on two players that lazy.
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CU Guru [1404]
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OP vs BB
Mar 10, 2013, 6:47 PM
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How good is OP doing at DePaul?
2012-2013 so far (11-20, 2-16 Big East)
2011-2012 (12-19, 3-15 Big East)
2010-2011 (7 - 24, 1-17 Big East)
He should have better basketball talent in and around Chicago, than he ever had at Clemson.
Used to be a fan of OPs though was always extremely irritated that he stubbornly stayed with "press" even when his teams were not executing it well and other team was beating it for layups.
OP did not develop talent. Share with me ONE player who got better - significantly better under OP. I cannot think of one. (BB seems to be better at that.)
I lost respect for OP for how he left Clemson to go to a crappy DePaul team. Thought it was spineless and cowardly. Financially - makes sense for him because it is his retirement job.
But dig deeper and rumors abound that OP was involved with a Clemson coach's (from an Olympic sport) wife.
Coach BB - we will see over next three years how BB does. I hope he can bring in better shooting big man. Hopefully the injury bug can stop stealing players. But this year was going to be a struggle and then he lost two "offensive" focused players before the season started.
I think Blossingame and Coleman would have given Clemson 3 more wins. .500 in ACC was the prediction and I bet they would have been there.
People crying for "entertainment basketball" need to give it a rest. Develop a system and players.. then win... whether it is 44-43 or 89-79. Does not matter.
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Legend [16136]
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Good post. Odd that he could recruit to Clemson but can't
Mar 10, 2013, 6:53 PM
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recruit Chicago...How did he let Filer go?
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Orange Blooded [4559]
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Re: Good post. Odd that he could recruit to Clemson but can't
Mar 10, 2013, 7:20 PM
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Why regional teams like Indiana, Illinois and Marquette weren't all over Filer is beyond me. Brownell stole one there!
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Legend [16136]
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OP prolly didn't look at him because he was a PG and all OP
Mar 10, 2013, 7:25 PM
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seemed to sign was SFs...
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Freshman [0]
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Re: OP vs BB
Mar 10, 2013, 9:55 PM
[ in reply to OP vs BB ] |
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Please CBB, Please develop a system because letting guys shoot 3's that can't make them ain't working!
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Rock Defender [53]
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BRAVO!!!!***
Mar 10, 2013, 7:52 PM
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Orange Blooded [3730]
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Finally looks like some honest debate has broken out...
Mar 10, 2013, 8:50 PM
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...regarding BB.
I'm really not sure where these Brownell-colored glasses are coming from with the T'Net crowd. I guess those Brownell-colored glasses are brown for a reason I can't express here on T'Net.
Rad will wake up here shortly and see that the trees in this forest are rotten to the core.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Finally looks like some honest debate has broken out...
Mar 10, 2022, 11:44 AM
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No one has on "Brownell glasses" whatever they are. Some of us can actually look at the full situation and see what Brownell is facing and think he should be given time to at least have a senior class.
Our facilities are ####. OP left in the middle of the night with his wife driving the bus. If in 2 years progress isn't made then yes we need to change coaches.
Regardless of what happens LJ has to be addressed. Right now our facilities are probably ranked 10th to 12th in the conference.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: OP did a pretty good job.***
Mar 10, 2013, 10:19 PM
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Asst Coach [710]
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100% true
Mar 10, 2013, 10:30 PM
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BB won w/OP's senior players in year one
since then, record has consistently worsened
his recruiting has been subpar
lost COUNTLESS close games...x and 0 genius? hmmmm...
still miss FT's
style of offense is unwatchable
and MOST IMPORTANTLY...
seats at LJ empty = losing $$$$ <----thats the bottom line
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Orange Blooded [2533]
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Wow. All can say is delusional.***
Mar 11, 2013, 11:49 AM
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