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CU Guru [1722]
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Concerning Black Lives Matter
Jun 10, 2020, 1:21 PM
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I truly know that All Lives Matter including black lives. I’ve on the BLM on the Al Gore World Wide Web. They have their demand broken down in sections for everyone to read. Here’s the first sections of demands. Just FYI as I don’t think most people have checked on true views of organizations that show up
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All-In [26968]
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Yeah, i've read threads here of people saying
Jun 10, 2020, 1:27 PM
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"What is it these people want?" I found it in like five seconds by googling. Don't agree with all of them, of course, but they are concrete goals.
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Heisman Winner [119709]
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BLM could be so much more effective
Jun 10, 2020, 1:32 PM
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And I wood take them more serious if
They also focused on black on black killing.....
Just my $0.02
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All-In [34108]
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Heisman Winner [137946]
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There are huge efforts in the black communities across
Jun 10, 2020, 1:37 PM
[ in reply to BLM could be so much more effective ] |
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the country that focus on this already. Because it's not solved or fixed yet doesn't mean it's being ignored, either.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Re: There are huge efforts in the black communities across
Jun 10, 2020, 2:07 PM
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I think what he’s saying are whites are feeling targeted. So if there’s a higher incidence of black on black violence, why is it mainstream media is bringing up white injustices towards blacks? It’s like having a classic car that isn’t running...and instead of fixing the drive train, you instead are giving it a new paint job. Putting the cart before the horse so to speak.
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Heisman Winner [119709]
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No, I don’t think whites are feeling targeted
Jun 10, 2020, 2:39 PM
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You’re right about the media, they give slight attention to overall black deaths and also never mention white killings by police.
We need Walter Cronkite back to inform us all....
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All-In [49046]
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Re: It must be really frustrating feeling targeted
Jun 10, 2020, 3:27 PM
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So swap one injustice with another? Abase an entire race for the actions of a few? I’m not a cop and I haven’t killed anyone yet. Where do I fit in this equation? I’m only asking because I keep hearing “systemic racism” and illusions towards white privilege. I personally think a better term would be generational privilege, maybe? Not all whites are “privileged” and not all blacks are “underprivileged.” My neighbor’s black and he looks to be doing much better than me. I’m just saying a lot of this rhetoric is lazy...
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Heisman Winner [137946]
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Re: I thought the question was about BLM, not MSM, no?***
Jun 10, 2020, 3:49 PM
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You’re right, but it’s hard not to address it when a crisis goes spiraling out of control. First it was police brutality, then all social injustices on blacks, then the ever present white privilege...I’m putting down the fire breaks in front of the wild fire.
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All-In [26968]
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Do you believe there are a lot of "black" people
Jun 10, 2020, 1:50 PM
[ in reply to BLM could be so much more effective ] |
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who are killing "black" people because they are "black"?
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Re: Do you believe there are a lot of "black" people
Jun 10, 2020, 2:08 PM
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Are you suggesting when a white person kills a black person, it is always racially influenced?
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All-In [26968]
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Uh, no.***
Jun 10, 2020, 3:36 PM
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All-In [26968]
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My point is...if it's an organization focused on racial
Jun 10, 2020, 3:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Do you believe there are a lot of "black" people ] |
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injustice, then why would they focus on something that's not about racial justice? Just because they are called "Black Lives Matter," should they also focus on heart disease? Should the Red Cross focus more on red crosses?
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Re: My point is...if it's an organization focused on racial
Jun 10, 2020, 6:10 PM
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Fair point, but I’d think statistical data matters. You can’t look at black deaths caused by whites (Or more specifically white cops) and ignore the rest of the picture. That’s a quick way to lose credibility.
On another note, I noticed that much of BLM goals have nothing to do with black lives either...like ending deportations and reforming/ending ICE. I can’t support some of those things...
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All-In [26968]
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I don't understand what you mean by
Jun 11, 2020, 6:20 AM
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"ignore the rest of the picture". What picture?
What you said about them having goals dealing with deportations and ICE actually illustrates my point. It's an organization intending to address racial injustices, not just "black" people dying.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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All-In [26968]
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It was a simple question. Not sure how that's dumb.
Jun 11, 2020, 6:21 AM
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Do you have an answer for the question?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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end to all jails, lol. good luck with that***
Jun 10, 2020, 1:53 PM
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Standout [347]
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That’s not BLM. That’s the Movement 4 Black Lives.
Jun 10, 2020, 2:20 PM
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None of that is on the BLM website. One of the founders of BLM is also a founding member of M4BL, but they are different organizations.
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Legend [15749]
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Interesting. So I did go to the BLM website and couldn't
Jun 10, 2020, 2:28 PM
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find any list like this of goals, other than to end police killing of black people.
But there is this relatively recent petition on their website:https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/
Quote:
"We call for an end to the systemic racism that allows this culture of corruption to go unchecked and our lives to be taken.
We call for a national defunding of police. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive. If you’re with us, add your name to the petition right now and help us spread the word.
Thoughts:
An "end to the systemic racism", even if I believed that was something, is not an actionable demand.
Defunding the police, like a lot that's going on here, is impossible to nail down. Scholarly liberals are explaining how it's simply a reallocation of funds. Protesters in the streets are saying that they want no more cops. So, hard to say what they want in this petition.
Prod said he got some good insights quickly - is it the same site the OP found? Or is there another list of demands specifically from BLM?
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All-In [42167]
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Re: Interesting. So I did go to the BLM website and couldn't
Jun 10, 2020, 2:31 PM
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Interesting. So I did go to the BLM website and couldn't find any list like this of goals, other than to end police killing of black people.
Seems like a pretty good mission statement, right?
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Legend [15749]
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Well, yes and no.
Jun 10, 2020, 2:37 PM
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First, are you confirming then that that is it? What are your demands...end the killing of black people by cops.
I would find it more beneficial to have a list of specific actions that they think might bring about that change. Like, I'm all for World Peace, but I'm not donating my money to a charity that says "We demand world peace."
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All-In [42167]
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I don't know what the BLM organization mission statement is
Jun 10, 2020, 7:11 PM
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But I know that the statement of "black lives matter" is benevolent and not threatening in any way. And if someone has a problem with people saying "black lives matter so stop killing us," that person's true intent needs to be examined very closely.
No one should have a problem with that statement.
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All-In [42167]
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Just out of curiosity...
Jun 10, 2020, 2:26 PM
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You are aware of the problem of responding "All Lives Matter" to people when they say "Black Lives Matter," right?
Why do people have a problem with just that phrase?
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Legend [15749]
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I'll try to articulate my problem with it...
Jun 10, 2020, 2:35 PM
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1) First, its inherent meaning. When someone says if you agree that Black Lives Matter, it's hard sometimes to ensure that they are asking you the question in concept or the organization. The answer is very different, depending.
2) As you and I have discussed, I find the idea that black people are under attack from cops, or just being unjustly killed by cops, because of the color of their skin, to be completely and tragically false. That is the main retort I hear when someone responds with "all lives matter", that it's black lives that are being threatened now by cops. My research shows that is simply not true, and yet is universal accepted without permitting a look at the data.
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All-In [42167]
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Re: I'll try to articulate my problem with it...
Jun 10, 2020, 2:44 PM
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To your #2, I do not feel black people are being actively targeted by police to kill them. I feel they are not given the same equality, treatment, and respect that white people receive in the law enforcement and judicial system, thus resulting in higher rates of mistreatment and, ultimately, death.
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Legend [15749]
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Certainly a valid concern...
Jun 10, 2020, 2:54 PM
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As you can probably tell, it's the demonizing of the police force that...errr..."triggers" me. But take this post, and, say, robertn post here:
https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Sentencing-disparities-mandatory-27341232#27341232
Sentencing disparities
Mandatory Minimums
Quota Systems
Funding cuts to public defenders
War on Drugs
How many of those do the cops control. MAYBE quotas? And I can tell you that quotas are not as prevalent as you might think, and would only apply to traffic tickets (I had it explained to me that there are no quotas, but if you are on highway patrol for a week and didn't write a single ticket, you're probably just not doing your job). But I might be misinterpreting some of Robertn's items, and of course could be wrong.
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All-In [42167]
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Re: Certainly a valid concern...
Jun 10, 2020, 7:09 PM
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True. I think the ultimate true sinister nature of the system goes beyond police, and has intentionally trickled down to law enforcement with most officers not even realizing it's a thing.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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All-In [42167]
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Well, sadly...
Jun 11, 2020, 11:09 AM
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The statistics dash your unfounded, baseless, not researched snarky opinion.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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I'm not sure anyone gets treated well by the police.
Jun 11, 2020, 11:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'll try to articulate my problem with it... ] |
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I know I don't..never have. Without fail, every time I have any dealings with a police officer, it costs me money I don't want to spend.
If I didn't have the money, I'm sure it would cost other things..like my time or my freedom.
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All-In [42167]
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Re: I'm not sure anyone gets treated well by the police.
Jun 11, 2020, 11:55 AM
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I do think socioeconomic issues, which has also been a hardship of the black community for a while, plays into this issue with police as well. People with means can avoid legal issues that others cannot.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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yep***
Jun 11, 2020, 12:01 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Re: I'll try to articulate my problem with it...
Jun 11, 2020, 6:25 AM
[ in reply to I'll try to articulate my problem with it... ] |
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" yet is universal accepted..."
Huh? It is most certainly not universally accepted. In fact, it's a very hot button thing that many people disagree on. It's like...the opposite of universally accepted.
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Legend [15749]
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So, concerning these goals of M4BL:
Jun 10, 2020, 3:42 PM
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#1) You demand an immediate end to the criminalization and dehumanization of Black youth in media and pop culture? What does that mean? No more portraying a criminal on TV or in a movie as black? What about gangster rap (is that still a thing?) that glorifies such behavior? Illegal? Quite the attack on Hollywood.
#2) An end of capital punishment is a cause across many groups (e.g., Catholic Church). Hardly a crazy goal although odd that it would be a goal for this group, considering that most people killed via the Death Penalty are white.
#3) I understand the goal of eliminating money bail...I'm not clear on how big of an issue this is or what would happen if they eliminated. Would more people be held? Would more people not show up to court?
#4) Oooooh ha ha ha! An end to the use of past criminal history to determine eligibility for housing and employment!?! Oooookay. Sorry, if you've been arrested for theft a couple times, you ain't manning my cash register.
#7) An end to mass surveillance of Black communities, including IMSI catchers, drones, body cameras and predictive policing software...a lot of that sounds really dumb. Policing software helps police do their jobs. It's like you're demanding they be more ignorant while they work. Body cameras are bad now? When did that happen? I guess it's inconvenient when you can't just edit your cell phone video of an incident to tailor the message? Are IMSI catchers only used in black communities, or are they just the only communities that should be protected from it?
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Re: So, concerning these goals of M4BL:
Jun 11, 2020, 7:11 AM
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#1) I doubt that's what they mean, but that might make me lulz if that turns out to be the case.
#2) My edges are starting to soften on this one. I may actually be against the death penalty... but not really passionate either way.
#3) Good question.
#4) I would think it would be pretty important on an employment check. Maybe a compromise would to be to only inquire about crimes in the past 5 years? Just a thought.
#7) I'm against IMSI catchers, no opinion on drones, and in favor of body cameras. If the cops aren't going to wear them, then you better have on on when interacting with cops. I'm a white dude and I don't trust cops. To me, body cameras are the only thing keeping them honest.
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Legend [15749]
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Good thoughts. A couple comments:
Jun 11, 2020, 9:28 AM
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On background checks - standard is seven years, though some industries push for ten.
I just think the demand to not have body cameras on police is baffling. I thought this was something everyone demanded. This is my cynicism coming out, but I believe they demand that because the body cameras are clearing more cops than it is condemning. Of course, this should be a call for celebration...more detail about what is going on...video evidence...is showing that the cops more often than previously believed are conducting themselves appropriately.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Re: Good thoughts. A couple comments:
Jun 11, 2020, 11:25 AM
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It doesn’t make sense to me that this group would want to do away with what is considered hard evidence. Usually you want more exposure, not less with more concealment. That’s a head scratcher...
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