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110%er [7177]
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Talent Evaluation!
Feb 7, 2019, 9:47 PM
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How could Boise St. during all those years despite being "Boise St" compete with and beat the big boys? What about Oregon? Oregon wasn't lighting up the recruiting pole when Chip Kelly was there(look it up). After they started winning; they had I believe a top 20 class(18th). But, their scheme and coaching was so much better than everybody else, you couldn't stay on the field with them! Same with Boise St who was even worse than Oregon in recruiting classes!
Bill Bellicheck - just won #6 and every year he does it with "mis-match players"! He does it despite having the last pick in the 1st round and each subsequent round unless they made some deal. How is that possible when other teams year after year get to pick the best players before them? Talent evaluation!
The H.S. coach that was using a kid as a RB who got canned and another coach comes on and sees the same kid as a stud WR. The kid flourishes in that role! How about any number of other sports examples I'm sure people could conjure up in the sports world where "bigger isn't always better"! Often in recruiting it seems to me(my opinion I have no data) they will rank one kid higher just solely based on his Height/Weight/40 time. I have seen some fairly unimpressive film of some 5 star guys who went on to college and "did nothing" just as I saw on film! But, they were in H.S. bigger/faster/stronger than the competition. And, they were day one out the box ready to play! So, they get ranked 5 star(see how they rank players to get a baseline for what I am saying). Only so many kids get that distinction! How many kids are playing H.S. Football across the country? Thousands upon thousands. Then the next group the 4 stars are really good; but not the biggest in that class or not the best at their position; but should be stars when they hit campus. Same thing applies to them about physical attributes. Then you have the 3 star kids who make up the majority of college football rosters in FBS. These guys are college worthy and big time college worthy but; are considered "needing development"! Guess what: "that's what coaches get paid to do right? That's what your S&C coach gets paid to do right?
2 star guys may or may not be FBS level if some school likes them enough. Probably FCS level talent.
You have to develop your talent! You have to evaluate the kid you bring in "beyond the measurables"! When Coach K 1st got to Duke he was not getting blue chip talent. He was beating people with "what he had"! That narrative has changed as he has had success! But, please do look at the early years under coach K. You have to be a good coach! We have several "Great coaches; who work their butts off"! A 3 star kid or a preferred walk on kid "has something these coaches have evaluated as Clemson worthy"! Hey, the same precise record against the school with the #1 or #2 recruiting class every year for years(bamer) over the last 4 seasons tells me - "the system works"!
A bunch of concerns about DT on the board! I don't get it. Please go back and look at these guys highlight reels and tell me you are honestly still worried. Plus, they have been on campus. Plus - these coaches chose them; most important! Which means, they believe in the kid and their ability to play in the systems Clemson coaches like to use. They wouldn't be here if not! I don't see a bunch of misses...so ease up on the dreed a bit! We Too Deep! We Too - "good at Talent Evaluation"!
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: Talent Evaluation!
Feb 7, 2019, 9:53 PM
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Good point bringing up Oregon and Boise St. In their prime they must have won a ton of national championships. And to top it off the Patriots must have gotten nobody’s to play form them despite being a pro team. Face it man... recruiting matters and we better stack blue chips on blue chips which Dabo does. Sure we have some extra schollys we use on a lower rated prospect that works out but by large it’s 5 stars and 4 stars that win us nattys. Dont pretend a roster full of 2 and 3 stars with Dabo and co would be beating Bama. It’s just not true. We would be U of SC.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Talent Evaluation!
Feb 7, 2019, 10:21 PM
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@cClemsonME08 You almost sound like a UGA fan, LOL! Tell you what, since it is the end all be all, how come Texas A&M hasn't been lifting trophies too? Or UGA? Or Michigan? Or Notre Dame? Jimbo use to have the top or top 3 class every year and he won how many? His OL; which Taggert took on last year was just as porous when he was HC and they all(except Hyatt) rated higher than our 3 star line. Bamers DL vaunted and all - 5 stars and all. Future NFL players and all got to our QB exactly - zero times!
Yep, I brought up a couple programs that won a ton of games but didn't win it all. But, neither did double digit teams in front of them who they kicked their Aztecs when they played! What you are saying is: "Don't play the games, if you don't have the best players"! Wrong! It's like that old Janet Jackson song, What have you done for me lately! What have those players done since getting on a college campus to prove they are still worthy of being so highly regarded?
Look back at the http://insider.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/archive/classrankings?classyear=2009
And, player rankings! Many names you have never heard of. In fact, go to youtube to see the video. It gives a brief synopsis of "whatever happened to" on the top 10.
BTW, what was everyone else who was considered a contender; winning percentage compared to Oregon and Boise St. during their run on top?
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110%er [7177]
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Talent Evaluation!
Feb 7, 2019, 10:39 PM
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@cClemsonTiger1988® Yeah, I agree! Dabo has "the gift" as you said. Players want to go workout and do their best for the man. When they are tired and they have studying to do and still have a training session later that day: "his inspiration" gets them through it. His positive energy and the belief in those players "they have someone who genuinely cares about them" gets them through it at "the best standards pace"!
BTW, Hunter Renfrow ate up the 5 star laden Alabama secondary! Walk on from the state of South Carolina. Socastee Braves! Walk on! Let alone a 2 or 3 star which he was; but not as a WR I don't think. Talent evaluation over some other organization that has no stake in the fight. They don't lose their jobs if you evaluate wrong! Ask the guy who was just at Tennessee where all those top classes got him? Fired. B/C the fans thought oh now we are going to win the natty. Nope. Same with Hugh Freeze. He landed a #1 class right in the middle of bamers run. How many did they win? None!
A kid from Rock Hill named Phillip Adams played at SC State was a 3 star recruit coming out. He didn't get Clemson or U of suck offer and didn't want to leave the state. Old Dominion, App St, Ga Southern wanted him but he didn't want to go that far. Long story short: an 8 year career in the NFL just like the kids who were ranked way ahead of him. He was ranked that low b/c of the scheme his H.S. team played. Another aspect of recruiting! Often H.S. teams put kids where they need them instead of where they would flourish and probably get a scholarship with. That's every year it's; this kid came out of nowhere. Not so much; if you pay attention! You have to trust your instinct and your ability to judge talent over a recruiting service! They frequently get it wrong! About like Mel Kiper!
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: Talent Evaluation!
Feb 7, 2019, 11:00 PM
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Ill respond to both. You are right Hunter Renfrow ate up Fitzpatrick and Adams was great too. Help me understand what TLaw and Justyn Ross did to Bama secondary? Also... how was bamas offense that night? How did Cle, CW42, Bryant, Huggy, snd Nyles do? Would you say our 4 and 5 stars competed well? I forget who was Defensive MVP... Mullen? He was a high 4 star. Did the defense put points on the board? That was AJ... he was a 5 star. Point is blue chips matter more than 3 examples of prospects Dabo took that worked out. Now... on to your next post.
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: Talent Evaluation!
Feb 7, 2019, 10:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Talent Evaluation! ] |
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Because it’s about average star rating and not total ranking overall. Rivals uses 25 commits I believe to calculate their class so schools and coaches that do it right don’t get full credit. You take a metric like average star ranking and couple it with stars and critical position and Dabo has a success formula. We recruit with the elite and when we don’t like 2019 it’s ok bc we sandwich it with years like 2018 and projected like 2020. However, keep telling me how I’m not a Clemson fan bc I realize it takes blue chips to win it all.
Fun game... post your players at each position of your teams you mention we beat and I’ll post Clemson’s recruits rankings and see how we compare. News flash we start more blue chips than they do.
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110%er [7177]
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Re: Talent Evaluation!
Feb 7, 2019, 10:44 PM
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Hey, your the one acting like we "it's all over" because we don't have a so called elite class! There are only so many so called "elite players to get"! Some of which "don't even get an offer from Clemson"! Not because they aren't good; but because they may not fit what Clemson does! Or they don't fit the culture of unselfishness!
It takes more than star ratings to win it all! I don't have to line anything up with anything you want to line up to know that!
Hunter Renfrow ate up the 5 star coached directly by Nick Saban secondary in two NC game appearances "yet only blue chip players will win us a natty"? Right! Touchdown Renfrow for the win! Walk on!
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: Talent Evaluation!
Feb 7, 2019, 11:07 PM
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My next post... I don’t act like it’s all over. The opposite to be exact... I’m the one who said our class deserves its 8-15 ranking. Like all of my posts the 2019 class isn’t great on elite talent so we took some fliers on elite potential. The 2018 class and what will be 2020 class will look elite. But maybe Dabo should turn down DJU so we can sign 3 star Doty kid who really really likes Clemson but committed to U of S.C. instead?
You keep bringing up Renfrow who was great at Clemson and I commend that. Just a follow up... how was Nuk, Sammy, Mike, Martavis, Justyn, Tee, Amari, Diondre, DK, and the freshman Ngata and Ladson? Can’t remember where were they ranked?
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Oculus Spirit [93662]
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You have to look for potential and have good teachers...
Feb 7, 2019, 9:57 PM
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on staff. Teaching is a gift of God and can't be learned. Obviously, Dabo knows that and recognizes the gift in others because our entire coaching staff has been gifted that.
"The spiritual gift of teaching is one that carries a heavy responsibility in the church. In fact, James 3:1 warns, “Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.”
Like every believer, teachers are to be stewards of every word that comes out of their mouths. But the greater responsibility to which they are called is to be stewards of the Word of God to His people. Teachers have been entrusted with the task of effectively communicating what the Bible says, what it means, and how we as followers of Jesus Christ are to apply it to our lives here and now."
https://spiritualgiftstest.com/spiritual-gift-teaching/
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: You have to look for potential and have good teachers...
Feb 7, 2019, 10:01 PM
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So your point is Jesus favors Clemson over Oregon and Boise St? Honestly I have no idea the football point you made there. I do honestly believe that Dabo’s good graces are a part of higer plan and his conviction touches millions through what he does. That had zero impact on recruiting 2-3 stars and us winning.
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Oculus Spirit [93662]
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No.
Feb 7, 2019, 10:26 PM
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My point is that the gift to teach gives a man an advantage in developing talent. Do you not think the better teachers will have the most success developing players skills in a limited amount of time?
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