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Topic: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week
Replies: 34   Last Post: Nov 15, 2020, 8:39 PM by: CM Shack
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TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 8:01 AM
 

 
Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week

Clemson's head coach is concerned about the depth on the offensive line and the numbers bear that out. What can they do to improve down the stretch? Full Story »



Not just the backups and depth that is at issue.

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 8:23 AM
 

Starters dont look so great either. Alot of standing around watching RB get stuffed.

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Yeah it's kind of a tough sell to frame this as a

[4]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 10:02 AM
 

depth and experience issue when the starters are getting whipped all game right from the first whistle.

The lack of depth and experience can certainly compound the issue later in games or when there are injuries, but our OL really hasn't been effective at any point in games this year.

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Re: Not just the backups and depth that is at issue.

[3]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 10:11 AM
 

Yea, both the OL starters and depth are the issue. Maybe there is hope among the freshmen eventually (i.e. Parks), but the OL roster right now is not looking good. It may also have something to do with OL blocking scheme as well?


Not just the backups and depth that is at issue.

[2]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 8:23 AM
 

Starters dont look so great either. Alot of standing around watching RB get stuffed.

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Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week

[3]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 8:59 AM
 

They are soft.


Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 9:00 AM
 

The first observation is that this year is so different that is anything relevant? Looking closer leads me to at least 3 thoughts.

First, saying the 4 reserves from last year averaged 20 snaps only means anything if the vast majority of those snaps were were during contested games and not mop up duty against the very inferior reserves we drubbed.

Second, how much of the problem is scheme or philosophy related? We are now a pass first team and believe it or not, our coaches are not the only experienced, smart coaches out there and other teams know that. To further explain that issue, we are the #1 team in the country in passing so are we really serious about the run?

Third and maybe most importantly, we appear to be reluctant to run the QB. Clearly, everyone who watched the ND game knew we could not risk running DJ, the Irish sure did. The threat of a run from the QB has been a huge part of our offense for years. In today's NFL, a QB1 almost has to be able to run and hopefully some of our problems will be eased if we turn Trevor loose.

All goals are still on the table this year.


Regarding the QB run game at ND - Dabo said earlier in the


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 10:24 AM
 

week that DJ still had an injured shoulder in the ND game and they had to be very selective in what they did with him. The fact that DJ slung it all over the field like he did with such accuracy is quite amazing when you really think about it.

Regarding the OL play - just disappointing that our run blocking is not on par with our pass protection. By all accounts our pass protection is really good. This leads me to think our run blocking is not necessarily an OL talent issue as much as it is coaching and scheme related. Our run game may be too predictable in addition to some technique issues. Hopefully we did some self scouting this off week and will improve in our play calling/play design as well as our technique.

Our most immediate concern is that we need to get healthy for this end of the year run. If our guys can heal up then I have no doubt things will improve.

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Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 1:17 PM
 

Your fundamental premise for your second thought is flawed. Clemson is not passing the ball significantly more this year than previous years. This year, Clemson runs on average 45.4 passing plays and 37.2 rushing plays a game. 2019, that was 43.9 and 37.7. 2018, 44.3 and 37.8. Every year, the proportion of passing/rushing plays has been about the same.

How do you work out that Clemson is the #1 team passing this year? We're really good passing the ball, but we're #6 in passing yards, #15 in passing touchdowns, and tied for #13 in passing yards per attempt. I don't think it's an issue that we don't care about running the ball. We're rushing it 37 times a game. We're just bad at it this year and are #79 in rushing yards per attempt.

Compare that to last year, we were #16 in passing yards, #11 in passing touchdowns, and #9 in passing yards per attempt. But we rushed it 37.7 times a game. The reason we had a top 10 rushing offense was because we were #1 in rushing yards per attempt. In 2018, we had a top 20 passing offense. But we rushed the ball 37.8 times a game and had the #10 rushing offense because we were #1 in rushing yards per attempt.

As for your third thought, it doesn't adequately respond to the simple fact that every one of Clemson's runners, including Trevor, is averaging below their career rushing yards per attempt, most significantly so.


Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 3:21 PM
 

We are #1 in total yards. Don't trash me, trash the O-line. You call em like you see em and so do I.


Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 9:01 AM
 

I find Tiger fans whining about the OL to be laughable at best. You people have really short memories and are a little short on horse sense.

Sure, the OL is not a strength, but if you don't trust Dabo by now then you clearly have forgotten all the years between 1981 and the current coaching staff. Dabo is by far the best head coach in America and has proven that over the past few years by beating the crap out of loaded Alabama in the national title game. We've lost 2 games in 3 years and you want to whine?
I deserve Dabo, but whiners deserve a Bowden as head coach.


Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 9:34 AM
 

Clemson doesn’t lose often but when they do you can usually look to a bad performance from the Oline. The Pitt game we had a chance to ice it but couldn’t win the short yardage plus had to abandon the run all game. Bama 2017, inability to rush left us with Bryant trying to win via the pass, and now ND was a similar story. There’s been plenty of close games where the run blocking was poor and kept a lesser team hanging around due to injuries or turnovers by the Tigers. There have not been many games where our Oline has dominated a very good defensive line. Usually those times where more a result of second half yardage because we racked 90+ plays and worn them out.

We need to get the defense to get healthy so the offense can get back to a faster pace and catch the defense in a mismatch.


Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 11:22 AM
 

One point. In the Alabama game they knew Bryant wasn't a passing threat. Therefore they went after the run to force Bryant to beat us passing which he couldn't do.


We are inexperienced and have zero depth

[2]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 9:51 AM
 

It’s just a fact this year.

The best O lines have a lot of experience playing together. Look at ND OL for example

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Re: We are inexperienced and have zero depth

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 10:04 AM
 

TE blocking needs to be looked at as well.


Re: We are inexperienced and have zero depth


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 12:24 PM
 

We have five really talented 4* true freshman that we will start seeing pass some of the O line starters from this season, next season, and that usually wakes the older less talented guys up, and they know they will have to out work those younger more talented guys if they want to start.

Message was edited by: allinallorangeallthetime52®

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I wouldn't trade Dabo for any coach in America.

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Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 10:23 AM
 

I am all in and believe in everything he's doing at Clemson. Still, our O-Line has been a huge disappointment this year. Our run blocking has been absolutely pathetic. To ignore or downplay that in any way is either dishonest or delusional. Those are just the facts. This board exists for the purpose of discussing topics like this. In fact, the T-Net staff itself posted the article which prompted this thread. We have the best RB in the country, who happens to be the best RB in Clemson history and in the history of the ACC, and he is averaging SEVENTY-NINE YARDS PER GAME. It's the elephant in the room.

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I wouldn't trade him for anybody either, but that doesn't

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 3:31 PM
 

give him a pass for dropping the ball on OL recruiting/depth...I agree with your assessment


Re: Not to beat a dead horse but, it's pretty obvious this

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 10:32 AM
 

our weakness this year. That and having no one outside of Tyler Davis who can stuff the middle on the D Line---it' just amazing how much better we are on D with him in the game. I'd always feared this would bite us down the road and sure enough, it did when we faced a quality opponent. The lack of numbers in recruiting the O Line has definitely hurt us as well.

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May 6, 2020: "I know I went to Clemson and got a degree, prob more than you ever did. And I bet my IQ is higher than yours too !" sociologycoot843


Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 12:15 PM
 

These are the freshman and RS freshman we have to count on for depth, 2* Mason Trotter RS freshman, 3-4* Hunter Rayburn RS freshman, 3* Kaleb Boateng RS freshman, 3-4* Tayquon Johnson RS freshman, 3* Trent Howard True freshman, 4* Walker Parks True freshman, 4* Paul Tchio true freshman, 4* Bryn Tucker True freshman, 4* John Williams True freshman, 4* Mitchell Mayes True freshman... The next 2 aren't rated or ranked by any of the recruiting services, 0* Will Boggs True freshman, 0* Mac Cranford RS freshman. We also have a few older OL players that isn't ranked or rated, two 0* RS Juniors, and a 0* RS Sophomore. But we do have some really young ranked O line talent that has to grow up fast.

Message was edited by: allinallorangeallthetime52®


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Pretty Much Can Only Get Better***

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 12:21 PM
 



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Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 12:56 PM
 

2nd team has looked decent as a group when thy have played but its probably due to the going against other teams backups. 2second team is almost all young as I rcall. Not sure where the guys are who should be sophs and juniors now. I think a couple hurt and a couple maybe had to quit playing.

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Its been a good run

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 1:11 PM
 

Hang up the whistle Robbie.


Re: TNET: Clemson O-line depth, effectiveness was under microscope in bye week


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 1:18 PM
 

I’m never going to expect much from true freshman offensive lineman, but I think Walker Parks, Paul Tchio, and Mitchell Mayes all have a chance to be special.

The issue with depth is Blake Vinson, Hunter Rayburn, and Kaleb Boateng. Vinson hasn’t been able to stay healthy. Rayburn and Boateng aren’t ready to contribute in year 2, unfortunately.

Instead, we are left with Parks and Mason Trotter as they only viable backups. Totally different from last year when Bockhorst, Cade, and McFadden were playing starter snaps. But, what do you expect to happen when you lose 4 starters?

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I would expect a team that has been recruiting in the Top 10

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 4:39 PM
 

and has lead the nation in playing time to have quality backups ready to replace them...Like they do at Bama/UGA/OSU...Novel concept I know


How did we even get behind schedule on OL recruiting to


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 3:28 PM
 

begin with...I've heard some sorry excuses, but very little in the way of actual explanations


I would love to see the OC take some of the pressure off


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 4:53 PM
 

the OL by putting in a couple of designed rushing plays and designed drop-back passes. With the RPO approach, the offensive linemen never know what the play is going to be. Am I pass blocking? Is the RB coming up my back? Just a couple of designed runs where the OL can stunt and trap to create a hole for TE9. I really believe this would be worth a try.

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I am a huge Tony Elliott Fan; but


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 5:36 PM
 


the OL by putting in a couple of designed rushing plays and designed drop-back passes. With the RPO approach, the offensive linemen never know what the play is going to be. Am I pass blocking? Is the RB coming up my back? Just a couple of designed runs where the OL can stunt and trap to create a hole for TE9. I really believe this would be worth a try.


I agree with you 100%! This was discussed last year as well. The RPO is great for putting the defense in conflict and making them "not right"! But, some designed run blocking plays would certainly help. ***somebody out there is going technically they are all designed run plays**. Exactly how you explained it here - not a RPO run play - a straight up we are pulling a guard and a TE for "wham block" and hitting the B gap! Something of that nature in my opinion would help clarify assignments. They aren't great at it; so this might be the thing that gets them to where they are "good enough"! Travis doesn't need a whole ton of space; so running a play that is "no doubt going to be a run" should clear out the noise/fog of war for the OL! Good Point!


The fumble return for a TD vs ND happened on a designed

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 7:04 PM
 

run and the blocking was so poor the safety almost beat Travis to the pitch


downvote my statements all you want coward, but you can't


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 7:19 PM
 

refute their validity, and in the end, THAT'S what matters most


Thank you for proving my point, you thin-skinned chicken


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 8:37 PM
 

#### coward...I'd rather have the facts


Re: I would love to see the OC take some of the pressure off

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 6:45 PM
 

Lol. Oh good grief the football iq on this board is astounding.


Re: I would love to see the OC take some of the pressure off


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 7:08 PM
 

It’s astounding.

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Saying "depth" is the problem on the O-line

[1]
Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 7:56 PM
 

Is a deflection by the coaching staff to spread out blame to avoid singling out disappointing players. They don't want fingers specifically pointed at anyone.

It's very obvious the starting O-line just isn't up to standard.


It is a depth issue, in that if we had better depth, some of


Posted: Nov 15, 2020, 8:39 PM
 

our starters wouldn't see the field much till the 4th quarter


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