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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Lot o points [180907]
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Surprised they're not murdering them.***
Nov 19, 2018, 7:11 PM
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Are Mexican racist?
Nov 19, 2018, 8:32 PM
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I had the same attitude as you about immigration when I first started hearing Trump’s rhetoric during the campaign, but something has changed. I don’t watch CNN or pay attention to politics outside of this board so I’m not really sure what it is. Maybe it’s the good Lord making me realize they’re just fellow human beings trying to cross an imaginary line to find better work.
I’ve come to not be able to quite understand why people automatically want to keep these people out. Fear I guess because there may be some bad apples? There are bad people everywhere.....
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Which is it, hop?
Nov 20, 2018, 12:17 AM
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You had the same attitude as me or you've forgotten why you wanted to keep these people out? Pick one only because they can't both be true.
"I had the same attitude as you about immigration when I first started hearing Trump’s rhetoric during the campaign,..."
"...I’ve come to not be able to quite understand why people automatically want to keep these people out."
Your memory is short and your mind is not clear. If you'll think back just a few short months ago you'll remember me posting a proposal to solve the immigration problems. One of the key steps I proposed was to give those who seek to immigrate from Mexico a 'fast track,' instead of the long delays our gov uses in background checks for immigrants from other countries.
I also proposed making it dirt cheap so the poor could come here legally, with SS cards, pay taxes and a path citizenship to every illegal in this country which hasn't broken any laws other than border hopping.
You're coming at me all wrong. In case your Bible doesn't read like mine you can't do wrong just to make everything work right. I can tell you're passionate about this but you're forgetting a couple of things. Two wrongs don't make a right. If we support lawbreakers we are...well, let me do this...
"1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour..."
Do you suppose this is relative to our subject?
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Which is it, hop?
Nov 20, 2018, 9:07 AM
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Well I'm not asking you to break the law by going down and smuggling these people in. I'm just wondering why the attitude among conservative christians is automatically to keep people out of the country. It was the same a few years ago when Obama wanted to let Syrian refugees in. You'd think we'd be the loudest voices calling to help people but it seems to be the opposite. Peter also said this:
"Who then will harm you if you are devoted to what is good? But even if you should suffer for righteousness, you are blessed. Do not fear what they fear or be intimidated, but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, ready at any time to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you. Yet do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that when you are accused, those who disparage your good conduct in Christ will be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God’s will, than for doing evil."
We seem pretty hell bent on keeping ourselves nice and comfortable here in America even to the point that we would deny refuge to people who are seeking it because there might be a few people among them who want to do us harm. That was my attitude until I started reading the Bible for myself more.
Now I'm not saying that people should be able to flood across the border. All I'm saying is that it's surprising which side of this argument the majority of "christians" seem to be on....
Seems like a good opportunity for Christians to show the love of Christ to people who might have never experienced it....instead we want to keep them out of our beloved earthly kingdom.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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You don't know why we want laws enforced?
Nov 20, 2018, 9:43 AM
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You're ignoring everything I said including the Word which plainly instructs us to obey law and render to those in authority respect, honor and obedience. You ignored my comments on solving the problem. I plainly said I have special affections for Mexicans because of my personal experience with them.
Right now instead of applying for legal status they are seeking asylum. That's fine but they become nothing less than slaves due to not being able to work under the law. They work for cash and will never have opportunity to pursue the American dream. They are granted temporary asylum then 95% fail to show up for their court appearance to gain full asylum because they fear asylum will denied.
How is that fair to either the US or the immigrants? They become fugitives of the law and subject to jail and deportation.
God was hell bent on putting me here and I'm hell bent on obeying laws He instructs me to obey. He gave us the power to break or obey. Stop accusing people of wanting to keep them out. Under the laws we have two solutions for Mexican immigrants. Legal and illegal. Anyone who can justify illegal is confused.
God did not provide instruction whereby we may determine whether to break or ignore law. The Word is clear and provides no exceptions. Rationalization is dangerous. The Pharisees called wrong right and right wrong. 'Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.'
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: You don't know why we want laws enforced?
Nov 20, 2018, 2:43 PM
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I addressed the scripture you posted in my first sentence.
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Lot o points [155706]
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Re: Which is it, hop?
Nov 20, 2018, 10:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: Which is it, hop? ] |
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"We seem pretty #### bent on keeping ourselves nice and comfortable here in America"
There's the rub----I can't believe there are people that think this is a bad sentiment.
This isn't selfish. Our country is a force for far more good in the world than bad. We can also help those who immigrate here....legally.
There are reasons for immigration quotas. It allows for those who come in to be assimilated into the culture and have their standard of living drastically improved.
The unchecked, unlimited immigration you clearly are talking about (even though you say "now I'm not saying....) brings our standard of living down to theirs, and ultimately reduces our ability to positively influence the world and those around us. This isn't a solution any more than making everyone's health care crappy and more expensive to give 10M people health care was a solution.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Which is it, hop?
Nov 20, 2018, 10:47 AM
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"brings our standard of living down to theirs"
No man, you're not gonna lose your flat screen or the freedom to go sit down at a nice restaurant and have a $30 steak because we let in a bunch of refugees seeking a better life.
Again, not saying people should just be able to waltz right across the border (and as far as I know the democrats are not suggesting that either), it just seems odd to me that the side that is made up mostly by people who call themselves christians are putting their well being over the well being of others, even though the guy they claim to follow regularly went out of his way to do the exact opposite.
More people than not voted against Trump, does this mean they all want to see America become a third world country? I don't think so.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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This about a secular moral outrage.
Nov 20, 2018, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Which is it, hop? ] |
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They are claiming morality by virtue of showing those who oppose their politics as the oppressors of a victim class. Choose your victims, women, blacks, latinos, muslims and anyone else they can convince are oppressed.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: This about a secular moral outrage.
Nov 20, 2018, 12:02 PM
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Or maybe it’s about calling BS when you hear it?
Trump and his administration want everyone to see them praying, he wants to talk about faith, yada yada yada, but yet he’s all but slammed the door on Syrian refugees who Obama made it a goal to help....
Apparently he only knows about the American version of Christianity.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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I don't know one single Christian who believes Trump is...
Nov 20, 2018, 12:21 PM
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Christian. If you know some you might consider a thoughtful reevaluation of where you seek fellowship.
You're heading toward a dark place in your spiritual life if you can rationalize away scripture or make it seem ambiguous. The confusion won't end here, Jhop. Take a break and spend some time seeking God's guidance rather than trying to figure it out by how you feel.
Three couples get married. The man who was first to get married was asked if he felt married. He said 'No, I don't feel married. The second one said 'I don't know yet.' The third said 'I feel married.'
Which is the most married? That's where you are. Your feelings didn't save you and won't help you obey because they can't. Only the Spirit can do that and only through the Word. He can help us make decisions for our personal life but He never puts my mail in your mailbox. If your feelings could guide you where is the Glory for God. You take the Glory for doing right, do you want your tombstone to read 'TO JHOP GOES THE GLORY FOR HIS OBEDIENCE TO GOD?'
Why do you think we will throw our crowns at His feet?
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I don't know one single Christian who believes Trump is...
Nov 20, 2018, 2:40 PM
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Well if I run away from the “Trump Nation” crowd I’d have to leave my church, disown a lot of friends and family. That’s certainly not the thing to do....
What scripture am i rationalizing? It seems I’m taking them all into account not just the ones that fit my opinion.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Re: I don't know one single Christian who believes Trump is...
Nov 20, 2018, 3:03 PM
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There's a marked difference between Christians who support Trump and Christians who believe Trump is a Christian. You don't seem to be able to distinguish between the two. Not one person here has claimed to believe Trump is a Christian and we know there are many Christians here. Not one.
You mull this over and see how it shakes out against how you feel.
"1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour..."
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Heisman Winner [111426]
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Re: Are Mexican racist?
Nov 19, 2018, 9:05 PM
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I know I look to the people of Mexico to guide my opinions on humanitarian issues. They always set such a shining example for the United States to follow.
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Standout [345]
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Re: Are Mexican racist?
Nov 20, 2018, 6:36 AM
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Fake news. Everyone knows the migrants would have raped everyone to death who they didn't murder on arrival so there can't be anyone left to protest.
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