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Replies: 28
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Rock Defender [53]
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Spooneye, what’s your professional opinion
Nov 12, 2020, 12:32 PM
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Spooneye, what’s your professional opinion
Nov 12, 2020, 12:45 PM
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Is that an oxymoron? Spooneye and professional?
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Spooneye, what’s your professional opinion
Nov 12, 2020, 12:46 PM
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Or just a moron?
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Spooneye, what’s your professional opinion
Nov 12, 2020, 12:46 PM
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I am asking for a friend.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Spooneye, what’s your professional opinion
Nov 12, 2020, 2:21 PM
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No, having a mumbling conversation with yourself while pacing around in circles isn't the slightest bit creepy.
Carry on, sir.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Spooneye, what’s your professional opinion
Nov 12, 2020, 9:59 PM
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thanks, I think I will do just that. It was one of your best ideas yet.
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All-In [34105]
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I'm no election lawyer, but...
Nov 12, 2020, 1:24 PM
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1% chance on the Pa. Supreme Court case, for the reason you said. The legislature makes the rules, and the Commonwealth Court expanded beyond the black letter of the law. But even if the Supreme Court agrees with the Commonwealth Court, it wouldn't invalidate the votes. At best it would justify a recount with observers standing more close by. However, there is no right to audit the ballots themselves, so I would be shocked if the Court found any cause for reversal.
I only skimmed the federal complaint so far and have no strong opinion on it. I'm fairly certain that there's no equal protection between different types of voting and ballots (see Bush v. Gore). The question is what relief they're seeking in this case, which I haven't looked at.
If the Pa. Supreme case is a loss for Trump, the SCOTUS will deny certiorari.
If the federal case is a loss for Trump, he will appeal to the Third Circuit, which will affirm, and then the SCOTUS will deny certiorari.
Fairly confident on all that, but again, haven't really studied the federal case.
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All-In [34105]
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Forgot to answer your last question.
Nov 12, 2020, 1:27 PM
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I don't think the federal case will affect other federal cases because I get the sense that the core of the Complaint is very fact-specific.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Forgot to answer your last question.
Nov 12, 2020, 2:17 PM
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All-In [34105]
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Re: Forgot to answer your last question.
Nov 12, 2020, 2:26 PM
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That's interesting. I do agree that the Pa. Supreme Court should not have been extending the deadline beyond what the laws on the books permitted. The problem is that if the citizens then rely on the decision, and think they can drop their ballots in the mail on Election Day, how do we handle protecting their right to vote vs. adherence to the statutory language? There's a famous case in NJ from a bunch of years back when the right to vote won over the statutory language.
To your point about states and their mail-in ballots: Yes, I think if other states have similar differences between in-person and mail-in, then courts can look to each other for decisions. There's a basic rule that if the same party already lost on the same issue, they can't relitigate it. The question is whether it's the same issue in those other states.
Here's a question about the equal protection argument: Didn't every citizen have an equal right to cast a mail-in ballot? That would distinguish it from Florida in Bush v. Gore* where the inequality was between different voting districts.
*Again, Bush v. Gore was about equal treatment in recounts, but let's assume it's analogous.
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All-In [34105]
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I take back my point on Bush v. Gore.
Nov 12, 2020, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to I'm no election lawyer, but... ] |
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I had remembered it wrong, and it's not as simple as what I said. They said Equal Protection applies to statewide recounts.
I'm not clear on why that permits different standards BEFORE the recount, which Florida definitely had (for instance, the notorious butterfly ballots).
Side note: A bizarre thing about Bush v. Gore is that the decision declared that it would not count as precedent for future cases.
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All-In [31887]
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On the federal case, it's not clear to me if the...
Nov 12, 2020, 2:17 PM
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envelope that the signature is on (or not on) stays with the ballot after it is verified. I am pretty sure it doesn't, but not 100%.
The relief the campaign is seeking is to delay the certification of the election. But the court is not going to toss out all mail-in votes. And I don't think there is a real way to go back and tie a ballot to a signature.
What I wonder is if we know how many envelopes weren't signed?
And in the end, there is still no evidence of wide-spread or systematic fraud.
I just can't see any end game here that has a road for PA to turn to Trump.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: On the federal case, it's not clear to me if the...
Nov 12, 2020, 2:31 PM
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All-In [31887]
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Better yet, how many votes were challenged after the....
Nov 12, 2020, 3:10 PM
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observers got closer? I think if there were any measurable number challenged then, that we would have heard about it already.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Better yet, how many votes were challenged after the....
Nov 12, 2020, 3:13 PM
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All-In [42136]
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Even if it did, hypothetically...
Nov 12, 2020, 2:34 PM
[ in reply to On the federal case, it's not clear to me if the... ] |
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He's still going to lose due to GA and AZ. Maybe even NC. He has too many battles to fight with little cause to fight them. It's a waste of time, taxpayer money, and the integrity of our nation's democratic process.
He needs to bow out gracefully, or the GOP needs to severely force his hand.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Even if it did, hypothetically...
Nov 12, 2020, 2:38 PM
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All-In [34105]
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Re: Even if it did, hypothetically...
Nov 12, 2020, 3:07 PM
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The GOP is also allowing it because they're making $$ from everyone who gets fooled into thinking they're donating to the Fight Election Fraud fund.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Even if it did, hypothetically...
Nov 12, 2020, 3:24 PM
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All-In [34105]
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Re: Even if it did, hypothetically...
Nov 12, 2020, 3:54 PM
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In this case the advertising doesn't match the thing they're donating to. That's the thing I'm pointing out. I don't mind people donating to a lost cause, but thinking their donating to one organization while actually giving money to another is unethical.
Not sure why you don't think people would be fooled. If you look at the email and the donation webpage, it's very deceptive. If it's not working, they wasted a lot of time trying.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Even if it did, hypothetically...
Nov 12, 2020, 4:01 PM
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All-In [34105]
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Heisman Winner [111519]
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Re: One of the emails I got links to this:
Nov 12, 2020, 9:40 PM
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I see the automatic donation is coming up on the 15th, presumably when a lot people get their paychecks. I would go to my bank and get a new check card issued if it were me.
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All-In [34105]
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Here's what the emails looked like
Nov 12, 2020, 9:46 PM
[ in reply to One of the emails I got links to this: ] |
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(Looks like they showed up in reverse order. And yes they think my name is Judith.)
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All-In [31887]
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I have absolutely no problem with Trump exploring...
Nov 12, 2020, 3:14 PM
[ in reply to Even if it did, hypothetically... ] |
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all legal remedies at his disposal.
The problem I have is that he is ramping up the rhetoric and saying the election was rigged and there was mass fraud and on and on. AND he's not allowing the Biden campaign any ability to consult on transition work.
Once again...if he would act like a frigg'n President and speak in a tone of country first, many, if not most, would be a lot more open to letting the issues play out in court.
I, personally, think there are valid issues that need to be explored...maybe not prior to the vote being certified, but certainly at some point...but with the way he is conducting himself, I can't help but just want him to STHU and go away.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I have absolutely no problem with Trump exploring...
Nov 12, 2020, 3:27 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Spooneye, what’s your professional opinion
Nov 12, 2020, 2:41 PM
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It's over. He lost. Get over it.
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: Spooneye, what’s your professional opinion
Nov 12, 2020, 4:15 PM
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Interesting discussion that seems non partisan (except for a few smart a's).
A further question is, if I try to get in line to vote in SC after 7pm, I am not allowed to vote, period. The mail in vote, on the other hand, seems to be totally flexible and up to the state rules to decide legitimacy. If there is a postmark, it sounds reasonable that the vote should be counted should that mark be on or before the actual election date. Any later post mark should be disallowed. The situation gets stranger if not postmarked at all. First, the post office should catch hell for that happening at all. Second, since the date of origin cannot be determined, I am thinking the votes should be disallowed too... even though they cannot be verified and be legit.
No Trump fan here so please idiots keep your trap shut. Just curious.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Spooneye, what’s your professional opinion
Nov 12, 2020, 10:01 PM
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If you are in line by 7 they have to let you vote.
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Replies: 28
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50
