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Topic: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)
Replies: 95   Last Post: Mar 26, 2020 10:04 PM by: clemson2003®
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Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[3]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 7:51 AM
 

Smoking 480K
Alcohol 88K
Diabetes 84K
Flu 55K
Covid to date - less than 1K

Can anyone rationally explain the mass hysteria and societal lockdown based on the stats to date? Yes I understand exponential growth and that people can be carriers without being at risk, etc. I also understand our immune systems are more at risk than the flu since this is a completely new virus...

BUT this mass hysteria and government overreach does not seem justified at all based on the FACTS I see. When the government starts to tell me when and where I can see my family and friends, I have a big problem.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 7:58 AM
 

I am fine with thinning the heard and my superior immune system should have no problem fighting off this bug. It is the elderly that need to quarantine and stay off the roads, especially during commuter traffic and on my lunch break.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

F that- retired & purposely go out & drive slow at rush hour

emoji_events [9]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:49 AM
 

Favorite tactics include...
1- Pulling out on two lane roads directly in front of youngsters, accelerate slowly and then driving 2 to 10 miles under the speeds limit, varying speed erratically and breaking whenever there’s on coming traffic.
2- When turning left at a protected turn stop light, pause 10 seconds and allow 6 car lengths to ensure minimum number of cars make the left turn arrow.
3- On interstates, pull into left most lane and maintain exactly same speed of the car in right lane.
4- At four way stops, look dazed and confused, allow two cars from all other three steps to go (sometimes waving them through) and not going if there is any moving car approaching the intersection
5- At all angled single direction parking lots, drive the wrong way then stop directly in the middle so the guys driving the right way cannot pass on either side. After a three minute stand off, slowly pull to one side and allow the car going the right way to pass with approximately 6 inches of clearance.
6- Come to complete stop in any yield / merge lane

HTH

badge-donor-05yr.jpg

I see you every day.

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:52 AM
 

I have for years.

2020 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: F that- retired & purposely go out & drive slow at rush hour


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:05 AM
 

All of these infractions should be an immediate death sentence.


YOU!


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:16 AM
 

I know you... I loathe you.


Re: F that- retired & purposely go out & drive slow at rush hour


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:11 PM
 




Message was edited by: Doc Diesel®



I’m smart enough to know that...

emoji_events [14]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:01 AM
 

I’m not smarter than this guy...



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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Man, Lou Holtz is looking good for his age***

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:05 AM
 



military_donation.jpg

Re: I’m smart enough to know that...

[3]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:05 AM
 

I disagree, with Youtube, pretty much everyone is an expert at everything. I heard some guy in Tennessee is close to splitting the atom in his garage.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Wow. Just wow.


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:19 AM
 

Frances knows he ain’t a smart man.

??


Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now and you’ll likely see.

emoji_events [13]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:12 AM
 

It’s not because we’ve had 1000 deaths it’s because of the potential. This isn’t the flu because it is a new virus meaning you have no learned immunity to it. Let’s make a couple of assumptions on math. 350M x suspected that 80% will eventually get it, that’s 280M. At lowest, a 1% death rate. That’s 2.8M deaths. I don’t believe we will ever see that many but it’s because we are making a lot of efforts to stop the spread. If you are 80 and you want to see your grandkids and that’s worth it to you even if you die than I agree that’s your choice, have at it. If you’re 40 and in the community and want to risk going to see grandpa cause you can’t wait two weeks than let me know how it feels if he contracts it and dies.

military_donation.jpg

Re: Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now and you’ll likely see.

[2]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:42 AM
 

So what is the real death rate? The current death rate is based on known cases via testing divided by known deaths. There are a few major problems here, which could actually lower the death rate to well below 0.25%. First, it is almost a certainty that we do not know how many people have the virus, because our testing is only done on people with noticeable symptoms, and in areas where testing is available. Deaths are far more certain, because autopsies will show the presence of Covid-19. Second, we also don't know how many people have had the virus, but recovered from it and were never tested. These people are walking among us today, but have no idea they even had the virus. A recent study overseas showed that as many as 47% of people may well fit into this category, known as asymptomatic. If you take all this into consideration, you can make a valid argument that the real death rate is far below 1%. We also know that as many as 80% of deaths are a combination of old age and pre-existing health conditions. That means the general population of younger people who do not have pre-existing health conditions probably have a death rate equivalent to the ordinary flu. My thoughts.


Re: Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now and you’ll likely see.

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:45 AM
 

smh.

Can you provide a concrete number of deaths that is below the threshold where you think we should take this seriously?

Honest question: please provide a number of deaths (let's say, in 2020) that if Coronavirus stays below that, we shouldn't worry and should just go about our normal lives.

I'll hang up and listen


Re: Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now and you’ll likely see.

[2]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:09 AM
 

Well we know the flu kills 20-60k every year. Why is that acceptable to you? Why don't we shut everything down every flu season?


Re: Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now and you’ll likely see.

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:04 PM
 

Because the wrong party is in the white house.....and their hatred for Trump trumps all reason. Crickets during H1N1 because the anointed one was president. They hid the numbers.

2020 purple level member

It's really not about that at all

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:31 PM
 

You are missing the point

2020 white level member

Re: Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now and you’ll likely see.


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:50 PM
 

Zero. See how much more loving and caring I am than everyone else?

2020 white level membermilitary_donation.jpg

Re: Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now and you’ll likely see.


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:48 AM
 

You're right in that most younger people that have Sars-Cov-2 don't die, but ~20-25% of them require hospitalization, and ~1/4 of those require ventilators.

If we overload the hospital system with young people, and we run out of ventilators, then Tia Tequila, a young 25-year old bartender, suddenly dies from organ failure because she wasn't able to get a ventilator


Yeah but on the other side of that is this...


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:59 PM
 

Most people dying right now are people that contracted the virus 2 to 3 week ago. Its almost certain that alot more people have the virus now than several weeks ago.

2020 white level member

Re: Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now and you’ll likely see.


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:26 AM
 

What is the real death rate? When this started we were behind the curve because the Chicoms hid the disease and the data associated with it! We are catching up fast and may already be ahead of this thing...the flu in 1918-1919 killed millions...not antibiotics back then, no antivirals and not real grasp of epidemiology...If we've overreacted we've done as much damage as underreacted...Look at the statistics from the Diamond Princess...7/700 deaths on a cruise ship without all the knowledge that we have now and with a passenger list that was predominantly elderly...I think that's 15%...not good but we can do better now...We'll come out of this one better and hopefully the Chinese will catch such #### that they will join the world community rather than just selling it crap!


Re: Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now and you’ll likely see.


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:22 AM
 

lovingit® said:

It’s not because we’ve had 1000 deaths it’s because of the potential. This isn’t the flu because it is a new virus meaning you have no learned immunity to it. Let’s make a couple of assumptions on math. 350M x suspected that 80% will eventually get it, that’s 280M. At lowest, a 1% death rate. That’s 2.8M deaths. I don’t believe we will ever see that many but it’s because we are making a lot of efforts to stop the spread. If you are 80 and you want to see your grandkids and that’s worth it to you even if you die than I agree that’s your choice, have at it. If you’re 40 and in the community and want to risk going to see grandpa cause you can’t wait two weeks than let me know how it feels if he contracts it and dies.



Yesterday, Dr. Birx provided context as to how all these high predictive numbers were modeled. Bottom line is the numbers are not proving to be accurate because in order to get these high numbers it requires 3 cycles of the disease with nothing being done to mitigate it. Recommend all watch her explanation:

https://youtu.be/P6zoft6skzc

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Re: Go take a tour of a New York City Hospital right now...


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 7:26 PM
 

Don't argue with these imbeciles. You can't fix stupid.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

I know right! Sheez. You'd think lesson learned

[3]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:20 AM
 

9/11 when only 3k died and 30k injured. And heck, we freaked out and started bombing stuff over that one.

I mean, we are only at 1k dead and 60k ill. AND THE GUMMENT WANTS US TO STAY HOME?


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:25 AM
 

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raginranger
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Death­s per Year in USA (CDC)
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 7:51 AM
Reply

Smoking 480K
Alcohol 88K
Diabetes 84K
Flu 55K
Covid to date - less than 1K

Can anyone rationally explain the mass hysteria and societal lockdown based on the stats to date? Yes I understand exponential growth and that people can be carriers without being at risk, etc. I also understand our immune systems are more at risk than the flu since this is a completely new virus...

BUT this mass hysteria and government overreach does not seem justified at all based on the FACTS I see. When the government starts to tell me when and where I can see my family and friends, I have a big problem.



pretty obvious narrative. it is all about ruining our economy thus hurting trump at the polls. how could it be anything else. this is a bad bug, no doubt but in reality it effects my age group and others that do not treat their body like a temple. luckily i do. lol. for the vast majority of the country, you get it, you may or may not get sick, then you recover. much like every other illness throughout time. it never ceases to amaze me how people let the media control every narrative.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg

So true...

emoji_events [14]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:31 AM
 

Here's a list of some other countries just trying to hurt their leaders at the polls, using similar tactics...

Italy
Germany
United Kingdom
Spain
France
India
New Zealand
Poland
Canada
Denmark
Peru
Australia
Czech Republic
etc...




2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: So true...

[4]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:53 AM
 

That's quite a list. It's crazy the extent the world go to to defeat Trump and to get Biden in office.

2020 white level member

Re: So true...


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:56 PM
 

That's actually a list of other countries controlled and brainwashed by globalists.

2020 white level membermilitary_donation.jpg

Re: So true...


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 7:03 PM
 

That Soros is good!

2020 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[2]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:39 AM
 

There are plenty of healthy people in their 30s and 40s dying from this. Yes, comorbidities and pre-existing conditions increase your mortality rate, but Scientists still can't explain why apparently healthy younger people are fine one day, and then crashing and requiring ventilators, and even dying in some cases


There is suspicion that NSAIDs such as ibuprofen make the virus worse

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:51 PM
 

in those who have no underlying conditions.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


NSAIDs are pretty bad in general. Fine to take occasionally


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:21 PM
 

but having dealt with chronic back and neck pain for the last year and a half, I've learned alot about both NSAIDs and steroids and there's plenty that most doctors just don't bother to tell you about.

I've been incredibly frustrated by how many doctors just want to send you for epidural steroid injections and prescribe muscle relaxers and NSAIDs like Voltaren and Celebrex. I didn't see any real improvement until my second round of physical therapy and i started doing yoga at home.

Really went off on a tangent there, but my point is that I definitely think twice before popping two advil for anything for these days.

2020 white level member

NSAIDs are pretty bad in general. Fine to take occasionally


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:22 PM
 

but having dealt with chronic back and neck pain for the last year and a half, I've learned alot about both NSAIDs and steroids and there's plenty that most doctors just don't bother to tell you about.

I've been incredibly frustrated by how many doctors just want to send you for epidural steroid injections and prescribe muscle relaxers and NSAIDs like Voltaren and Celebrex. I didn't see any real improvement until my second round of physical therapy and i started doing yoga at home.

Really went off on a tangent there, but my point is that I definitely think twice before popping two advil for anything for these days.

2020 white level member

A laughable, absurd, obviously false notion.

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:18 AM
 

Trump declares a national emergency. Trump shuts down the borders. Trump and his team promote social distancing and staying home. Trump proposes and touts the most costly spending bill in history to combat the virus. Trump calls daily press conferences and spends hours in front of the media talking about all of that. It's hard to figure out if he's an oblivious ignoramus who's being manipulated by the media, or if he's part of the plot to bring himself down.

Only a complete moran would buy into that steaming pile of bullshart, but thats exactly what one must believe if your scenario is correct, because Trump himself is driving the idea that the threat posed by the virus is very real and very serious and requires drastic, immediate action.

2020 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: A laughable, absurd, obviously false notion.

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:39 AM
 

Sums it up.

2020 white level member

Re: A laughable, absurd, obviously false notion.


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 2:00 PM
 

I would say Trump has responded to criticisms in this way. The Left never lets a crisis go to waste no matter how small.

2020 white level membermilitary_donation.jpg

I don't kinow what you mean as it relates to my point.***


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 3:26 PM
 



2020 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:36 AM
 

Because if only 20% of the population gets Coronavirus, the death toll will be larger than all of the causes you listed above combined


The concern is overloading the hospitals...

[3]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:46 AM
 

so government official are trying to flatten the curve (the rate at which the virus spreads).

The rate at which the virus is spreading, if not minimized, could result in there being more cases than there are hospital beds, equipment, and medical professionals to treat them.





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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[3]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:50 AM
 

There's a happy medium between a full on societal lockdown and pretending this virus doesn't exist. Arguing that anyone who is looking for that, instead of happily sitting at home for six months while our entire society collapses is somehow wanting people to die, is the height of idiocy. We're already at the point where the cure is arguably worse than the disease and if these imposed closures last for a few more months you're going to see the collapse of the entire industrialized world and that's not hyperbole, unlike the moronic assertions that getting people back to work in a smart sustainable manner is going to kill millions. Doing this for a few weeks is one thing, and probably necessary, but doing it any longer than that will irrevocably ruin the lives of hundreds of millions of people. Good luck with that plan.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:51 AM
 

Great points.

Provide us with some guidelines on how you can keep businesses open while not spreading the virus exponentially


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:22 AM
 

Tigerrag, looking forward to your reaction when Trump maintains the presidency in November.

Guess you believe everything our liberal corrupt media tells you.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[2]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:52 AM
 

Can we please stop with the ignorant thoughts that everyone who supports or at least understands the actions taken to limit the spread of this virus is a liberal Trump hater who is celebrating this whole thing in order to get him out of office?

I guess that several other countries in the world are also taking similar and in some cases even stricter measures because they want to get their leaders out of office?

It's a stupid thought to begin with, because who is changing their opinion about Trump over this? If you were a Trump supporter prior to the virus who planned on voting for him, then why exactly would you change your vote now? Anyone hating on Trump over this thing was already against Trump before all of this. That's the way politics seem to work, everyone just blames the other side over everything no matter what the facts are, and that's BOTH sides of the political fence. It gets old for the rest of us who just want to go through life without being in the middle of children complaining and pointing the finger at each other constantly.

2020 white level member

Amen to that


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:38 PM
 

Find myself hating both sides the majority of the time. I'm happiest when I don't have to listen to political discussions at all.

2020 white level member

Can you add cdc data for deaths due to


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:11 AM
 

Global warming.

And also climate change

Tia

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Re: Can you add cdc data for deaths due to

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:44 AM
 

When a topic like this is started, it makes me hope you didn’t attend the same school I did because it definitely makes me think my degree isn’t worth as much as it was before reading it.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

emoji_events [8]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:18 AM
 

All societies grow to accept certain risks and behaviors that, in it's worst case, result in a certain amount of deaths among it's citizenry. The mortality numbers sited in the OP are in fact, acceptable to the majority of people in the USA as a "price" for living. The citizenry may try to reduce those mortality numbers through education programs and medical treatment but death from those issues are still acceptable to the majority in such a way as to not destroy their freedoms and prosperity.

Enter COVID-19. The US data is still in it's early stages where we are still grappling with what the acceptable risk is for this disease. As I have commented elsewhere, one thing is for certain; the USA will not survive as a nation if we keep the whole country locked down until the risk of COVID-19 infection and death is zero. Rational people understand this and yet we can't seem to have an honest national discussion about it right now without people being vilified as "heartless", "not caring" or some other overly emotional response by our media and many politicians. The typical emotional response is that "no death is acceptable" and that we must do everything we can to prevent a COVID-19 death even if it means locking everyone down indefinitely. That is simply not rational, not sustainable, and not within the norm of any society since the beginning of time. At some point the scale of acceptable risk vs death must be balanced or we will cease to be a functioning society.

As the OP points out, the USA has always operated under the construct that a certain amount of risk and death are acceptable in order for us to remain a free and prosperous society. Our society constantly seeks that balance between risk, freedom and prosperity - now that COVID-19 is here to stay, we will have to deal with it in that same light.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:24 AM
 

Thanks tabbyplague! You summarized it better than I could, I agree 100%!


Agreed. By May we’all know a lot more. In the interim _


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:28 AM
 

It’s critical to give social distancing, sheltering in place and lockdowns the best shot to work and slow rates down. Also robust preparedness and response tactics should be employed in all states and communities. Accelerated medical treatments should also be tge highest priority.

There will come a point where “move forward” is in the best interest of all Americans and our nation.

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Re: Agreed. By May we’all know a lot more. In the interim _

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:45 AM
 

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Agree­d. By May we’all know a lot more. In the interim _
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:28 AM
Reply

It’s critical to give social distancing, sheltering in place and lockdowns the best shot to work and slow rates down. Also robust preparedness and response tactics should be employed in all states and communities. Accelerated medical treatments should also be tge highest priority.

There will come a point where “move forward” is in the best interest of all Americans and our nation.


YOU DO REALIZE THAT IF EVERY PERON IN OUR COUNTRY GOT THE BUG. THE VAST MAJORITY WOULD RECOVER JUST FINE. MUCH LIKE WE HAVE WITH EVERY OTHER BUG THAT HAS STRICKEN OUR COUNTRY.

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Re: Agreed. By May we’all know a lot more. In the interim _


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:56 AM
 

Yeah we would only lose about 4 million people or so. Meh.. That's nothing. More people die worldwide with the combination of auto wrecks, smoking, and hang gliding.

2020 white level member

Re: Agreed. By May we’all know a lot more. In the interim _

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:03 AM
 

“Yeah we would only lose about 4 million people or so. Meh.. That's nothing.“

Sometimes I forget how stupid people are, then I read messages from a bunch of rednecks and it becomes abundantly clear for me. Thank you for my daily reminder.


Re: Agreed. By May we’all know a lot more. In the interim _


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:07 AM
 

No prob.

2020 white level member

Re: Agreed. By May we’all know a lot more. In the interim _

[2]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:08 AM
 

MarcusA27 said:

“Yeah we would only lose about 4 million people or so. Meh.. That's nothing.“

Sometimes I forget how stupid people are, then I read messages from a bunch of rednecks and it becomes abundantly clear for me. Thank you for my daily reminder.




You see that thing up there? That was the joke flying over your head.

2020 white level member

Yeah we should just give it to all 330mil people at the same


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:44 PM
 

time to get it over with. Everything would be back to normal in 3-4 weeks. I can't imagine a single thing that could go wrong with this plan.

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:42 AM
 

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tabbyplague®
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Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC) [2]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:18 AM
Reply

All societies grow to accept certain risks and behaviors that, in it's worst case, result in a certain amount of deaths among it's citizenry. The mortality numbers sited in the OP are in fact, acceptable to the majority of people in the USA as a "price" for living. The citizenry may try to reduce those mortality numbers through education programs and medical treatment but death from those issues are still acceptable to the majority in such a way as to not destroy their freedoms and prosperity.

Enter COVID-19. The US data is still in it's early stages where we are still grappling with what the acceptable risk is for this disease. As I have commented elsewhere, one thing is for certain; the USA will not survive as a nation if we keep the whole country locked down until the risk of COVID-19 infection and death is zero. Rational people understand this and yet we can't seem to have an honest national discussion about it right now without people being vilified as "heartless", "not caring" or some other overly emotional response by our media and many politicians. The typical emotional response is that "no death is acceptable" and that we must do everything we can to prevent a COVID-19 death even if it means locking everyone down indefinitely. That is simply not rational, not sustainable, and not within the norm of any society since the beginning of time. At some point the scale of acceptable risk vs death must be balanced or we will cease to be a functioning society.

As the OP points out, the USA has always operated under the construct that a certain amount of risk and death are acceptable in order for us to remain a free and prosperous society. Our society constantly seeks that balance between risk, freedom and prosperity - now that COVID-19 is here to stay, we will have to deal with it in that same light.


WOW WHAT A VOICE OF REASON. VERY WELL SAID

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Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:44 AM
 

Man you are spot on so well said, I wish people were capable of having a rational discussion on the topic but lost aren’t.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:38 AM
 

Excellent explanation. We cannot let the cure, even as bad as it can be to some, be worse, in totality, for the majority of the population. Fight with the full strength of all forms of government, coupled with the extensive and complete American business culture of "we can do whatever, now" and our greatest asset: the combined effort of the American people and as so aptly put by someone from my time: "I (We) will survive" Thanks Gloria Gaynor ---


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:03 AM
 

Yep. There's huge difference between prudence and panic.

Imagine if we had stopped the world for SARS and then stopped the worlds for bird flu and then stopped the world for H1N1 and then stopped the world for MERS...

And think about just H1N1 10 years ago...from CDC website:

The (H1N1)pdm09 virus was very different from H1N1 viruses that were circulating at the time of the pandemic. Few young people had any existing immunity (as detected by antibody response) to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus, but nearly one-third of people over 60 years old had antibodies against this virus, likely from exposure to an older H1N1 virus earlier in their lives. Since the (H1N1)pdm09 virus was very different from circulating H1N1 viruses, vaccination with seasonal flu vaccines offered little cross-protection against (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection. While a monovalent (H1N1)pdm09 vaccine was produced, it was not available in large quantities until late November—after the peak of illness during the second wave had come and gone in the United States. From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus.

Additionally, CDC estimated that 151,700-575,400 people worldwide died from (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection during the first year the virus circulated.** Globally, 80 percent of (H1N1)pdm09 virus-related deaths were estimated to have occurred in people younger than 65 years of age. This differs greatly from typical seasonal influenza epidemics, during which about 70 percent to 90 percent of deaths are estimated to occur in people 65 years and older.


We didn't stop the whole world in 2009 and life went on.

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Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:20 AM
 

For starters, the death rate for H1N1 was about .02% compared to 1.5% in the US so far, and 4.5% for the world with the Coronavirus. Sure, you could say the death rate for Corona isn't as high because of undocumented mild cases, but wouldn't the same be true for the H1N1?

According to your figures, 60.8 million Americans got the H1N1 virus with 12,469 deaths. If that many people got the Coronavirus at the current rate we'd see 9.12 million deaths. Even if you drop the death rate down to .5% we'd be looking at over 3 million deaths. Heck, even if you drop the death rate down to .1% we'd be looking at 608 thousand deaths.

Aside from all that though, the two situations are exactly the same.

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:30 AM
 

Sorry, stupid me with the wrong math calculations. 912k of deaths at the current rate of 1.5%, 304k at .05%, and 60,800 at .01%

2020 white level member

Some people are just bad at maff...

[2]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:26 AM
 



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Re: Some people are just bad at maff...


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:04 AM
 

If not more.

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:42 AM
 

Yes raginranger you have a problem. You are arguing apples and oranges and asking for a reasonable answer from a flawed comparison. If you want to understand you have to be willing to dig deeper and shed your political agenda.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 9:57 AM
 

Can you please cite where the United States averages 55k flu deaths per year?

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:21 AM
 

I realize that is for someone else, but here are some stats.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year%3famp=true


2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:53 AM
 

So for this flu season they're projecting anywhere between 12-34k deaths from the flu. We had one year with a projection of 61k, but aside from that, we're nowhere near an average of 55k per year as the original poster states.

In any case, people fail to understand that this isn't a contest over the number of deaths. It's because of the unknown factor. They have stats to understand and make projections for the number of expected flu cases each year. This allows them to make vaccines, and ensure that we have the proper amount of available medical professionals and medical equipment.

I highly doubt you could find a case of a flu death that resulted from us not having enough equipment or healthy doctors to treat them. I believe we've had 3 straight days now with 100+ deaths, and that number has been going up each day. Italy has had 500+ deaths per day for the past couple of weeks, and now has a total of 7,503 deaths with over 3,000 more who are still considered to be in critical condition.

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:48 AM
 

Good question now let’s have the same level of inquisuitivism and skepticism with the covid-19 figures.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:06 AM
 


Can anyone rationally explain the mass hysteria and societal lockdown based on the stats to date?




I would. But this question is asked literally DOZENS of times a day between this board and my social media feed, and I'm tired of answering it.

This has been explained ad nauseam by medial professionals and politicians alike.

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:43 AM
 

We are in the minority right now, let people cook another week trapped inside and public opinion will start to shift. No way this goes on 3 to 18 months as most think, REGARDLESS of how deadly it turns out to be when all the final numbers are run. I still think the mortality rate is being grossly overstated by the very same crowd saying we don’t have enough tests. The denominator in the equation is grossly understated, anyone with even a basic sense of math and common sense can see this.


So lemme get this straight:

[2]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:16 AM
 

YOU, Truetiger1988, are in the know. You have this figured out better than most all doctors, scientists, and politicians world wide. Better than both the Republican and Democratic parties. Better than CNN and Foxnews.

YOUR math and common sense is better than all the aforementioned?

Salute to you, good sir or maam. Proud of ya.

I hope you are soldiering right along. Total hoax. Stay close to as many people as you can, don't let the media do you like this.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:19 AM
 

Great question by the OP...

So far there are a little over 22k deaths WORLD WIDE. This is after China has "turned the corner," with its huge population.

I keep hearing projections of hundreds of thousands of death in the US. If they didn't have that in China, with all of their polluted lungs and other issues, why do we expect it here?


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:32 AM
 

Do you have any idea how China has managed to turn the corner?

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 11:38 AM
 

I think time is going to tell what was most effective in responding to this virus...

China mandated a lock-down. S. Korea did not but instead instituted wide-spread testing and quarantine of those tested positive.

S. Korea "turned the corner" sooner than China.

There is some data now suggesting that the virus has been circulating longer than thought, both in the US and abroad. If so, it may be that in some places "run its course." That's why I think time is going to have to pass before we know what really happened in terms of recovery.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:45 PM
 

That's good news on the data you're speaking of. I'd be very interested in looking into that if you could point me in the right direction.

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:01 PM
 

This just came out: https://www.dailywire.com/news/epidemiologist-behind-highly-cited-coronavirus-model-admits-he-was-wrong-drastically-revises-model?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mattwalsh


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:16 PM
 

Yes, the numbers DO NOT ADD UP! We have DESTROYED our economy and the fallout will be tremendous, millions...MILLIONS will lose their jobs, businesses will be destroyed, drug addiction, alcoholism, where will the jobs be for recent college grads, etc. Coronavirus is nothing compared to the havoc we have created!


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:16 PM
 

Yes, the numbers DO NOT ADD UP! We have DESTROYED our economy and the fallout will be tremendous, millions...MILLIONS will lose their jobs, businesses will be destroyed, drug addiction, alcoholism, where will the jobs be for recent college grads, etc. Coronavirus is nothing compared to the havoc we have created!


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:16 PM
 

Yes, the numbers DO NOT ADD UP! We have DESTROYED our economy and the fallout will be tremendous, millions...MILLIONS will lose their jobs, businesses will be destroyed, drug addiction, alcoholism, where will the jobs be for recent college grads, etc. Coronavirus is nothing compared to the havoc we have created!


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:27 PM
 

How do you know what the havoc will be? It's not done. Also, what if we had nothing? No telling.

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:23 PM
 

Well, you can't see your grandchild, whose life has now in the toilet, so as a grandmother, your argument is useless and part of the problem. We HAVE a flu vaccine, but we also still have 20-40 thousand deaths every flu season. Is our liberal media staying home, those who are telling us that we are horrible people if we do not? No, they and their minions are traipsing to studios to spread their message of fear!


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:23 PM
 

Well, you can't see your grandchild, whose life has now in the toilet, so as a grandmother, your argument is useless and part of the problem. We HAVE a flu vaccine, but we also still have 20-40 thousand deaths every flu season. Is our liberal media staying home, those who are telling us that we are horrible people if we do not? No, they and their minions are traipsing to studios to spread their message of fear!


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:25 PM
 

Well, you can't see your grandchild, whose life has now in the toilet, so as a grandmother, your argument is useless and part of the problem. We HAVE a flu vaccine, but we also still have 20-40 thousand deaths every flu season. Is our liberal media staying home, those who are telling us that we are horrible people if we do not? No, they and their minions are traipsing to studios to spread their message of fear!


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:48 PM
 

I'll ask you the same question as I've asked everyone else who has made similar comments about the media causing all of this. If this is all media driven then how do you explain what is going on with several other countries in the world?

2020 white level member

heck, even foxnews is reporting this to be

[2]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:53 PM
 

A problem.

I wonder why all media, all scientist, and all doctors are so bad on spreading info about a hoax.

Weird right?

It saddens me to know that there are actual humans in this world that think this is all made up.


Re: heck, even foxnews is reporting this to be


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:16 PM
 

I think the case that people are making is not that the virus is real...

Its that the reaction is out of proportion to the reality thus far. Deaths world wide from COVID-19 are FAR, FAR below the death count for Flu this year.

And, there is increasing data suggesting that this has been circulating longer than formerly thought, so that projected rates of infection are vastly overstated.

Just today the author of the "London model" which is the basis for the wild projections, which had already been disputed by the docs at Oxford, admitted that his numbers were off. He has dialed down his projection for deaths in the UK from 500k to 20k.

That's still a lot of deaths...but the UK had over 26k flu deaths in 2017/2018 flu season. More than the new "revised" projection from the "London model."


Smoking and alcohol are lifestyle choices, diabetes is


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:39 PM
 

significantly impacted by diet, and corona virus is supposed to be 10x more contagious than the flu.
I'm not a 'sky is falling' kind of person, but what I've read, if nothing is done, we could end up with a hundred million cases in the US, in a year. The antibody testing they are coming out with, is the most promising news i've heard.

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Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:50 PM
 

No, you clearly don't understand exponential growth, percentages, or diseases if you are unable to figure out why what we are doing is important.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:01 PM
 

Well, now there is this: https://www.dailywire.com/news/epidemiologist-behind-highly-cited-coronavirus-model-admits-he-was-wrong-drastically-revises-model?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mattwalsh


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:07 PM
 

That article is twisting things, don't you think? His original models(which yeah, probably were assuming numbers at the highest of an extreme) were based on if we did nothing and everyone went about their normal lives. His new projections are based on after the actions being taken.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/


2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 1:10 PM
 

There is an unknown that comes into play. We can draw conclusions from the number tested and the deaths due to the virus. We don't know how many less people were not infected due to the procedures (social distancing, etc) that were mandated. I'll take prevention any day over treatment, and I believe most people would also accept that option.

I haven't looked it up nor have I seen a post that would show the total number of deaths from flu for a specific year and the number of deaths for those who had the vaccine and those who id not have the vaccine

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Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)

[1]
Posted: Mar 26, 2020 3:39 PM
 

Perhaps if you can think about all that happening at once you’d see the wisdom in sheltering in place. Those deaths happen over the course of a year, most or many are longstanding issues that do not require immediate attention or hospitalization, nor do they carry the risk of infecting the health care team thus cratering the ability to care for the sickest. It’s not about numbers of death as much as it is the sudden surge not unlike a tsunami as opposed to a expected high tide.

2020 orange level member

i can i can


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 7:27 PM
 

Smoking 480K - from years of smoking . you chose to smoke.. u kill urself
Alcohol 88K - from years of drinking . u chose to drink.. u kill yourself
Diabetes 84K - from years of eating . you shose to eat .. you kill yourself
Flu 55K - just bad luck
Covid to date - less than 1K - ding from 4 weeks of having covidien. YOU& juts wanted to go to work.. you didn't know bob was a walking time bomb.. and now so are you.


NOw the government has stepped in on smoking, alcohol, eating, and has created flu vaccines. Heck they are free.



Of all those the flu is the only relevant one. I'm shocked that 55k people have died in the US from the flu in less than 3 months. Maybe these flu shots dont work.

2020 white level member

Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 7:30 PM
 

This isn't even a serious argument. Smoking and alcohol deaths are self-inflicted wounds. Diabetes is not contagious, and COVID-19 spreads easier and is more lethal than the flu. Turn off Fox News and read the Wall Street Journal if you want a conservative, credible description of COVID-19. And, no I am not a left winger. I have been voting conservative since 1980.

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Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 8:51 PM
 

Yes, but if the argument for the government overreach is that it’s the government job to protect its citizens, then why isn’t it the governments job to protect us from smoking, alcohol, and other highly dangerous substances?

All of this propaganda and paranoia is how dictatorships start.


Re: Deaths per Year in USA (CDC)


Posted: Mar 26, 2020 10:04 PM
 

Doesn’t government restrict the age someone can buy tobacco and alcohol, as well as where a person can do them? Aren’t many dangerous substances illegal?

2020 white level member

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