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All-In [42026]
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Sittin' here watching The Messy Truth with Van Jones...
Dec 6, 2016, 9:14 PM
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On CNN while getting some work done. Not sure if a rerun or not. But he filmed his dinner conversation with a family in the Rust Belt that had voted for Obama twice but went to Trump this election. Good interview. Showed a nice example of how the Clinton campaign completely neglected many of these voters and the arrogance they exuded.
The matriarch voted for no one. She was frightened of both.
Hillary Clinton drew a blueprint for how to completely #### the bed in an election.
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Legend [18007]
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I can understand not voting in the election
Dec 6, 2016, 9:22 PM
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but I don't understand what Trump was offering that these people agreed with, certainly not to the point where they saw him as a LESS arrogant POS than Hillary.
If it was a rerun, I'd love to see him go back and ask how they like Trump's cabinet. I'd like to see how honest they'd be.
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All-In [42026]
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The husband said...
Dec 6, 2016, 9:23 PM
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That Hillary had hurt them so badly that they didn't really care about all the stuff Trump said.
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Legend [18007]
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Interesting. They say how they meant "hurt them?"***
Dec 6, 2016, 9:29 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Yeah. It was said that she blew them off"******
Dec 6, 2016, 9:39 PM
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Legend [18007]
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So she lost the fickle vote.***
Dec 6, 2016, 10:19 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Also known as people that care about their families.
Dec 6, 2016, 10:32 PM
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There towns are drying up and they are hurting. Trump noticed. Hillary blew them off. I am a liberal and a Dem. I still can understand their point of view. Hillary ran a terrible campaign.
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Legend [18007]
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I don't agree with your subject line...
Dec 6, 2016, 10:46 PM
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but obviously Trump connedconvinced them that he could bring their jobs back and I guess Hillary didn't. The truth is most of their jobs are gone and aren't coming back. Trump can't fix that. I wonder at what point they'll realize in the Trump presidency that he simply lied to them and will that have consequences?
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All-In [48078]
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We agree on lmost all of that.
Dec 6, 2016, 10:57 PM
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We don't know who would have done a better job in that department between Hillary and Trump. Hillary was more concerned with us letting refugees in anyway. At least, if you followed her campaign she was. She ran a terrible campaign. I still can't believe Donald Trump is our next president, to an extent. It gets clearer all the time though in hindsight why she lost.
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Legend [18007]
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I thought the refugee think was a Trump agenda item
Dec 6, 2016, 11:09 PM
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Her loss was as much about the differences in rural and urban voting as her lackluster campaign (and remember she won the popular vote by almost 3 million votes).
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All-In [48078]
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No,a huge part ofh er campaign was...
Dec 6, 2016, 11:15 PM
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talking about how trump was wrong for not wanting illegals and not wanting the Muslim refugees. She kept harping on that and harping that we are an inclusive country. She misjudged the public. I always cringed when she would talk about that stuff, because I knew, although she is right to an extent, it was terrible for the election. She was your typical liberal elitist and that killed her. She needed to be the old school lib.
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Legend [18007]
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If calling the country inclusive lost her the election
Dec 6, 2016, 11:28 PM
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we have huge problems as a country. (We probably have huge problems as a country...)
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Oculus Spirit [79401]
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I think you're having a hard time understanding different
Dec 7, 2016, 9:46 AM
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viewpoints.
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Legend [18007]
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Nah.***
Dec 7, 2016, 9:05 PM
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All-In [48078]
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She should have tried to include everyone. That's what...
Dec 7, 2016, 11:04 AM
[ in reply to If calling the country inclusive lost her the election ] |
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you're not getting and it was a huge factor as to why she lost. You're dumbing it down, obtuse, or just blindly partisan.
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Legend [18007]
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I'm not the one dumbing things down here.
Dec 7, 2016, 9:13 PM
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I'm trying to figure your point out. So, yes, I'm not getting it. How did Hillary ignore these people? How did she blow them off? How was her message of including everyone somehow mean she was excluding white rural voters (who may or may not have voted dem?) You can understand how that doesn't make sense, right?
Explain your position better and I'll quit asking "obtuse" questions.
From what I mostly remember of her campaign, she made it about Trump and his character not being right for the Presidency. I could see that being her main mistake. Instead of focusing on her ideas, she and the media made it all about Trump. Maybe I remember this wrong.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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she certainly blew off wisconsin***
Dec 8, 2016, 12:08 AM
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Legend [18007]
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It wasn't without offering...
Dec 8, 2016, 12:54 AM
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All-In [48078]
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You're just ot that intelligent apparently..
Dec 8, 2016, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to I'm not the one dumbing things down here. ] |
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if you're still trying to figure out the obvious. Bless your heart. That is just adorable.
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Legend [18007]
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(sigh) good talk russ***
Dec 8, 2016, 3:52 PM
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All-In [48078]
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No prob. You should get out more. Kind of a national story
Dec 8, 2016, 4:12 PM
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Yet.. you're still confused by it. sigh
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Legend [18007]
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You remind me of discussing things with some of my family***
Dec 8, 2016, 6:35 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Explaing something obvious too you would be like..
Dec 9, 2016, 11:05 AM
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trying to explain to a conspiracy theorist that we didn't attack ourselves on 9/11. It's a waste of time. Yes there tens of thousands of white Americans that feel Hillary didn't include them and feel like she didn't connect with them. We will just leave it at that. Bill Clinton said the same thing by the way and told Hillary she was blowing it. That's cool though. I will just let you deny the obvious. That's my last response to you.
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Legend [18007]
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This has been fascinating. Such a weird turn this convo took
Dec 9, 2016, 3:02 PM
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at least our conversation. I'm having the worst time trying to find out where it took a turn where you think I'm some partisan hack (or on the level of a 9/11 truther). I agreed with you that these people (white dem voters that voted against Hillary) felt betrayed because of Hillary's campaign:
My quote from an earlier post: obviously Trump convinced them that he could bring their jobs back and I guess Hillary didn't.
We have agreement there. I,then, move on from that point and say "I wonder at what point in the Trump presidency he won't be able to bring their jobs back and if that will have consequences." (I even bring up a new topic here as we have agreed on the Hillary abandoned them idea)
Your very next post subject line reads: "We agree on (a)lmost all of that." So we are having a fine conversation and have found common understanding.
It's in that same post where you bring up the idea that Hillary was too concerned with letting in refugees which was a curious assertion I thought, so in my next post I ask "I thought the refugee thing was a Trump's agenda item" and then say "I thought that Hillary losing was as much about rural vs urban voting as her lackluster campaign (again, this is an agreement with your main argument. But adding some more detail to the conversation).
So we arrive at the end of the main conversation with your final post saying, "No a huge part of her campaign was talking about how wrong Trump was for not wanting illegals and not wanting the Muslim refugees. She kept harping on that and harping that we are an inclusive country.
Your argument here goes to idea that Hillary ran a bad campaign (which I've agreed with). But, the detail about her campaign being bad because she ran on an "inclusive country" idea struck me as odd. This argument shifts the explanation of white dem voters being angry at Hillary because of their job losses to them being angry at her for calling the country "inclusive" to refugees and immigrants. So, in my next post I make mention that if she lost because she called the country inclusive then we have bigger problems as a country. (maybe you read this as a snide remark to you, but it was not meant as such. If she really lost because she thinks this country is inclusive and that repulsed people then I think that's a huge problem for the country)
I figured this would be the end of the conversation. But this is where things turn and get weird. First, Lakebum makes a weird assertion that I'm having a hard time understanding different viewpoints which I hope my little breakdown of the conversation has proven to be false. (I reread the thread many times after he posted and could not figure out how he came to that conclusion)
Then two hours later you post saying she should have included everyone (an argument of inclusion) and that's why she lost. But then for some reason, you turn snide and say, "You're dumbing it down, obtuse, or just blindly partisan." Which is where my brain broke. I have reread the thread many times and can't figure out what warranted this response. We agree white dems in rural areas felt betrayed by Hillary. We never disagreed on that point. And that's basically what you're now saying I'm obtuse too. Like I said, it broke my brain.
The rest of our conversation is just back and forth internet idiocy built around snide remarks and is embarrassing (that I'll take most of the blame for if need be) and I don't find it nearly as fascinating as the main conversation I outlined above. I've written too much already(like I said this conversation broke my brain with its oddness) and you probably won't read this, but I hope you do as I do wonder what your opinion is as to why this turned. I'll just end by saying that clearly all the blame falls on Lakebum 
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: This has been fascinating. Such a weird turn this convo took
Dec 11, 2016, 4:30 PM
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White dems in urban and suburban areas on top of the rural areas dislijed Hilariys campaign as well. Thats the dirty little secret the media doesn't want to openly discuss. They want to dumb it down to "this is the fault of white rednecks!!".
Another point is Hilary vehemently and repeatedly brought up the refugees issue. I don't see how you missed that.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: Explaing something obvious too you would be like..
Dec 11, 2016, 4:23 PM
[ in reply to Explaing something obvious too you would be like.. ] |
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Don't leave out the scores of thousands of Black Americans that felt used and taken for granted by Obama and the Dems. Hilary couldn't tell enough lies in a convincing enough fashion to overcome that.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Explaing something obvious too you would be like..
Dec 11, 2016, 4:35 PM
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I personally know of three African Americans who voted for Trump.
None of the three had EVER voted for a Republican presidential candidate. One of the three is my best friend, the other two are his 70ish year old mama and aunt.
I know people will say that's "anecdotal" but I seriously doubt I just happen to know the only three African Americans who voted R for the first time in their lives.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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All-In [48078]
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Varsity [213]
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All-In [48078]
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They were definitely honest.
Dec 6, 2016, 9:37 PM
[ in reply to I can understand not voting in the election ] |
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Hillary blew off middle AMerican white people. All she talked about were minorities, immigrants, inclusion, etc. She forgot about certain people. Trump tapped into those people.
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Legend [18007]
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Trump "conned" those people.***
Dec 6, 2016, 10:20 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Who knows? Time will tell*****
Dec 6, 2016, 10:32 PM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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110%er [7013]
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All-In [38514]
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Hillary conned a larger subset of the population, and lost.***
Dec 7, 2016, 11:11 AM
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110%er [7013]
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Yep.***
Dec 7, 2016, 11:52 AM
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All-In [28802]
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Oculus Spirit [80999]
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Well, yeah.
Dec 7, 2016, 3:43 PM
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When you say you'll do 4 more years of the same thing you've been doing for the last 8, should anyone really expect anything to change?
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All-In [48078]
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That family from Ohio wasn't interesting.
Dec 6, 2016, 9:35 PM
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They said what I already new. It's odd how that shocked Van Jones.
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Oculus Spirit [80999]
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Mainly because he is stuck in his own bubble of being
Dec 7, 2016, 3:45 PM
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a victim.
Once you make above a certain amount of money, I'd argue that its pretty hard to really understand what other people who don't are dealing with.
Oh you might understand it, but at the end of the day, you go home to a different reality.
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All-In [48078]
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Rick Santorum was so full of it on religion*****
Dec 6, 2016, 9:40 PM
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All-In [28802]
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anything but religion!***
Dec 7, 2016, 11:35 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Van Jones? I thought that was a biography of...
Dec 6, 2016, 11:56 PM
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Verne Lundquist calling Alabama games.
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All-In [38514]
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The show last night was horrible.
Dec 7, 2016, 7:11 AM
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I saw that full segment the night before, he showed an edited version last night.
I was disappointed in last night's show but agree overall that we need to talk to each other and not past each other. We need to heal the divides between the people and still be able to disagree and respect each other.
I find Van Jones annoying with his high pitched, fake voice.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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isnt he the one that called the election a Whitelashing?
Dec 7, 2016, 7:21 AM
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ya, i don't think he's learned anything
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All-In [38514]
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He has talked about that and appears to regret saying it.
Dec 7, 2016, 7:41 AM
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Or at least regrets the way it was said. The four segments he's done where he has gone to people's houses and talked about differences are great. So while not perfect I respect that someone is making the attempt to find ways through the divisions through understanding and listening to each other. I think that comment is what lead to him attempting to create a dialogue.
But last night's show was a failure.
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All-In [42026]
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All-In [38514]
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I'm not a fan of his.
Dec 7, 2016, 11:11 AM
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He's inconsistent and can react emotionally.
But I believe the greatest threat to our country is our divisions and not being able to respect each other when we disagree. So I'm for anyone who is attempting to bring the country together.
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Oculus Spirit [80999]
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Our biggest threat is our operating in, and living in debt.
Dec 7, 2016, 3:47 PM
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That will be the one thing that will eventually equalize everyone.
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All-In [48078]
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The worst part of the show...
Dec 7, 2016, 11:15 AM
[ in reply to The show last night was horrible. ] |
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was when Michael Moore said that the Dems in Congress should block anything and everything the Repubs propose, even if the Dems agree on the issue. Haven't we had enough of that with the Repubs? That's what this country can't stand. If they do that I think they will just being shooting themselves in the foot. If you approve something than come together and pass it. If you don not, than oppose it. It should be that simple one would think.
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All-In [38514]
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The worst part was the entire show.
Dec 7, 2016, 11:26 AM
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Complete waste of time.
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All-In [46801]
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Hillary made a huge mistake of expecting
Dec 7, 2016, 11:36 AM
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African Americans to turn out like they did for Obama because she is from the same party. While this wasn't the only reason she lost, it was a fundamental flaw in her campaign of trying to get the same turnout from the same populace who came out in droves for Obama. As she learned, you can't expect people to vote for you just because you're from the same party of another popular politician.
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All-In [48078]
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No, she knew they wouldn't turn out anywhere close to that..
Dec 7, 2016, 11:56 AM
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she just didn't expect the outrageously low turn out by them. She knew it wouldn't be similar to Obama though. She didn't expect so many women to turn their backs on her though.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: Hillary made a huge mistake of expecting
Dec 11, 2016, 4:14 PM
[ in reply to Hillary made a huge mistake of expecting ] |
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Yes!!! The most overlooked part of this election is that Hilary didn't get the votes Obama got in his two runs. Trump got roughly the same number of votes that McCain and Romney got. The causes lie at the foot of Hilary which just shows why she shouldn't have won anyway.
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