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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Since 1/5th of all people are Muslims and Islam is violent..
Mar 23, 2016, 12:50 PM
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then it only stands to reason that a high or even moderate % of the deaths from war/invasion/terrorism were initiated by Muslim countries/empires/terror organizations. After all, Islam leads people to violence...right? And we are talking about over a BILLION people. That has to lead to a lot of violence in the world. Let's see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll
Less than 1%? Really? Oh.
Well either way... we know OVERWHELMINGLY that international terrorist attacks against the U.S. since the 1960's has come from Muslims. That's not even up for debate. Especially if we don't even count home-grown terrorists.
http://www.heritage.org/~/media/images/reports/2011/05/sr93/sr93_chart6.ashx?w=500&h=620&as=1
Wait, really? Less than half? Oh.
Well whatever. I know what I know because I see it on TV and hear political talking heads tell me. Statistics and books are a waste of time when you can just feel it. SO I think I will ignore things that suggest I am oversimplifying things, and I'll just cherry pick slivers of truth that back up my emotional opinion. As long as other people do this, I won't ever have to feel stupid about it.
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: Since 1/5th of all people are Muslims and Islam is violent..
Mar 23, 2016, 12:55 PM
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just yesterday a group of muslims were beheading my neighbor, I am getting tired of an entire religion committing genocide in my neighborhood.
and that heritage graph is very unclear on what those percentages represent. Going by the number of attacks, the vast majority committed on our soil were home grown, especially when you go all the back to the 1960's. Possibly that graph takes into account 9/11 and represents number of deaths? And when it comes to latin america, I am only left to assume if represents activity not carried out on our soil.
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110%er [5508]
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All-In [30179]
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Sharia law
Mar 23, 2016, 1:08 PM
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Its faaaannnnnnnnnnnnnntastic.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Thank you so much for accidentally walking into this....
Mar 23, 2016, 1:14 PM
[ in reply to These fools be cutting off folk's heads in the streets ] |
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SO I think I will ignore things that suggest I am oversimplifying things, and I'll just cherry pick slivers of truth that back up my emotional opinion.
Your post fit perfectly with that prediction. Carry on.
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All-In [41890]
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: Hey, isn't that the country...
Mar 23, 2016, 1:35 PM
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they did sell us all of that oil on the cheap, The least we could do was take out their competitors for them. Now all we need is an excuse to invade Iran.
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110%er [5508]
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110%er [5508]
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Legend [15730]
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All-In [41890]
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Uh oh. Someone needs some edumacation on this.
Mar 23, 2016, 3:37 PM
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The relationship peaked under the presidency of George H.W. Bush. This is both due to personal and financial ties, but moreover because the Saudi royal family supported (was even grateful) for the first Iraqi war, when the United States ousted Iraqi troops from Kuwait.
Both then-president Bush and the current president have had personal and deep financial ties with the Saudi royal family. Author and journalist Craig Unger documents $1.4 billion that has "made its way" from the Saudi royal family to "entities tied" to the Bush family, according to Unger's controversial book "House of Bush, House of Saud."
Unger contends that the documented oil holdings and affiliations of both Bush presidents has led to a policy of inaction in the post-Sept. 11 world.
"There is a fundamental piece of logic missing in the American conversation ... the Saudis played a big role in terrorism, that the Bushes have very, very close to the Saudis both in business terms, personal terms, and in public policy. And it has a resulted in a non-cracking down in the Saudi role on terror," said Unger, who lives only blocks from where the World Trade Center once stood.
"They have turned a blind eye to the Saudi role," he added...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-tangled-web-of-us-saudi-ties/
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Legend [15730]
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Sounds legit and unbiased.
Mar 23, 2016, 4:12 PM
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I'm not spending my afternoon debating this. The previous comment sounded like the Bush family developed our relationship with Saudi Arabia, which is patently "ha ha"-able. If you disagree, then so be it.
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All-In [41890]
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A person is either willfully ignoring it or is ignorant...
Mar 23, 2016, 4:24 PM
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If they are not familiar with how tight our relations with Saudi Arabia became under the Bush family.
And if you don't want to debate it, don't engage in it on a message board.
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Legend [15730]
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Yes sir.***
Mar 23, 2016, 4:25 PM
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All-In [48078]
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We don't go to wars because of non Muslims though..
Mar 23, 2016, 1:19 PM
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at this stage. 9/11 ended up leading us on a road to 100's of thousands of deaths, refugees, etc etc. The world doesn't fall apart because of a Tim Mcveighor Dylan Roof.
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Heisman Winner [137634]
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Tell me again why we went to war in Iraq.
Mar 23, 2016, 1:31 PM
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I'm a bit fuzzy on that. Was it because they're Muslim and obviously associated with 9/11? So, now that the smoke has cleared and the dust has settled nearly a decade and a half later, can we finally admit that 9/11 was used as a carefully crafted and convenient excuse to invade a sovereign nation that represented no more of a threat than they had the previous 30 years, because anti-Muslim sentiment was so high in the years following 9/11?
No? Figured. Let's keep clinging to the WMD thing.
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All-In [48078]
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Because we were idiots.
Mar 23, 2016, 1:38 PM
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Either way, that's the type of idiotic stuff that happens after a terrorist attack.
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Hall of Famer [21545]
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Re: Because we were idiots.
Mar 23, 2016, 2:25 PM
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So thanks Obama for going to a baseball game instead of invading the wrong country.
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Oculus Spirit [80892]
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I thought we went to war for oil, or haliburton, or the war
Mar 23, 2016, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to Tell me again why we went to war in Iraq. ] |
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machine. No its just because we don't like muslims?
Which one is it?
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All-In [41890]
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Don't forget that God told Bush to go to war.
Mar 23, 2016, 2:46 PM
[ in reply to Tell me again why we went to war in Iraq. ] |
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You know, that's always a good basis for invasion. When your leader says God told him to do it.
Just in case someone tries to dispute it...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa
So make no mistake about it. This stuff is religiously driven. And a president justifying war because "God told him to" doesn't rank much higher on the morality ladder than some of those Islamic terrorists.
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Heisman Winner [111189]
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Re: Don't forget that God told Bush to go to war.
Mar 23, 2016, 2:53 PM
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always humorous when people confuse mental illness with god talking to them.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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9/11 wasn't the beginning of that road. And either way...
Mar 23, 2016, 1:32 PM
[ in reply to We don't go to wars because of non Muslims though.. ] |
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nothing you said precluded any of the things in the OP.
The fact remains unchallenged: deaths from wars started, caused, provoked by... or that we can blame on... Muslims represents far far far under their ratio of the population.
Either you can ignore it or accept it.
BTW do you notice when we started going to war with Muslims? Was it AFTER we created the mujaheddin in Afghanistan to fight the soviets? Yep.
We helped Soviets fight Nazis.
Then we helped Radical Islamists fight Soviets
Now we are helping radical islamists fight radical islamists.
Great job America. We get to pick our own enemies...by accident.
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All-In [48078]
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I don't believe Iraq happens without 9/11.
Mar 23, 2016, 1:40 PM
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Terrorist attacks cause way more damage. I am not talking about my safety.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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That doesn't mean it was Islam that caused us to invade.
Mar 23, 2016, 1:41 PM
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That was arrogance, irrational fear and greed. Which leads to 99% of wars. That's the point.
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All-In [48078]
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Not exactly...
Mar 23, 2016, 1:45 PM
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Radical Islam was what lit the fuse. Sadly we had idiots racing off to war because of what radical Muslims did. Whether we used it as an excuse is another thing. That said, without 9/11 the world would be a different place. Tim McVeigh didn't change the world. Radical Islam is much bigger fear for me than a homegrown terrorist like McVeigh. I am not talking about my personal safety either.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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You are starting in the wrong place. 9/11 isn't genesis.
Mar 23, 2016, 1:47 PM
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Al Qaeda only exists because of the US.
We made Saudi Arabia. So we indirectly made Wahabbism a global problem.
We built the mujaheddin in Afghanistan. And we left it alone after it served its purpose.
History man. History.
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All-In [48078]
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I believe radical Islam exists with or without the USA.
Mar 23, 2016, 1:49 PM
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Have we fanned the flames? Sure. Radical Islam would exist with or without the USA. There is no doubt about that.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Radical anything exists. It would have not been significant
Mar 23, 2016, 1:50 PM
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or able to start wars without us.
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All-In [48078]
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I completely disagree.
Mar 23, 2016, 1:56 PM
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That said, as an almost 50 year old Jewish person I see radical Islam much differently than you do. I am an atheist Jew actually, but once a Jew always a Jew. We look at it from a different lense. No matter what the USA says or does there will be radical Islam and terrorist attacks. It's just the culture of much of Islam. Do you know that in a Pew Research poll that over 70% of Pakistanis have a favorable opinion/view of ISIS? Islam is scourge to planet Earth imo. That said, we have to be smart about how we combat the problem. Invading places such as Iraq sure doesn't help.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I can assure you that you don't hold a monopoly of Jewish
Mar 23, 2016, 2:03 PM
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blood in this thread. But that's completely irrelevant anyway.
Either way, Christians have killed exponentially more Jews than Muslims. Probably by like 100 times. But that doesn't mean much about Christianity. It's other factors that led to that.
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All-In [48078]
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I respect your opinion, but this is 2016...
Mar 23, 2016, 2:06 PM
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I worry about what is going on now. Christians killing in the name of religoin represent relatively no threat in comparison to Islam in the year 2016.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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You don't see what just happened?
Mar 23, 2016, 2:10 PM
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It's 2016. But the Koran is the same it was for centuries. So is the Bible. So what does that tell us? SOMETHING ELSE CHANGED. That's my point. It's not Islam. It's the political reality...which has changed since the time I was talking about, to the time you are talking about.
You don't see that?
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All-In [48078]
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The followers of one religion and culture have evolved.
Mar 23, 2016, 2:18 PM
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The others are stuck in the wrong century. There is a huge illiteracy problem in the Muslim world as well. They are extremely malleable in many parts of the world to radical teachings. Then again, even extremely educated Muslims are turning radical. The problem with radical Islam is only going to get worse too. I have absolutely no faith in Islam not being a scourge to planet earth within my lifetime. We haven't seen anything yet.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Europe was able to dominate the world. That's the
Mar 23, 2016, 2:40 PM
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only change. The nature of people's relationship with their religion follows their political and social reality. Islam was once the beacon of scientific thinking when Christianity was backwards. It was only because the political situation allowed for it. With the twists and turns of history you see ups and downs in violence in different regions. Religion is never the reason. Religion bends to politics.
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All-In [48078]
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In much of the Muslim world politic bends to religion.
Mar 23, 2016, 2:53 PM
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First off, I want to say I respect your opinion and would love for you to be correct. That said, where do you see the positive political situations in the Muslim world? Indonesia and Malaysia maybe? Most people even in those countries support Sharia law. Do you have any faith in Pakistan or how about the Middle East? How about Muslim parts of Africa? Do you think there will be less radicals in time? I don't. I don't see the radical teachings or the radical propaganda decreasing. I think Islam has been hijacked and it won't be a positive to the planet Earth in your lifetime nor your great grandchildren. I think radical Islam is a freight train picking up speed and not slowing down.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: In much of the Muslim world politic bends to religion.
Mar 23, 2016, 3:08 PM
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I have a friend who lives in Turkey-around 50 miles from the Syrian border. He was back here visiting two years ago and expressed a lot of concern about the number of refugees that had come into Turkey from Syria. He was worried that radicals were crossing over. I just looked up the number of refugees to Turkey-2.7 million. I have no doubt that some of these were radicals.
He also was complaining that there were government officials from Turkey that were supporting ISIS. It's been a while, but I remember him saying that the president of turkey was quietly supporting ISIS. I remember finding that hard to believe, but I found some stuff online supporting what he said.
Hopefully the radicals won't gain much of a foothold in Turkey.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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The Koran in Indonesia is the same as the Koran in Sudan.
Mar 23, 2016, 7:25 PM
[ in reply to In much of the Muslim world politic bends to religion. ] |
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Obviously the religion is the same... but the behavior is different. So the politics are not bending to the religion.
In Africa there is a problem with female genital mutilation in Muslim countries. It's not a problem ANYWHERE outside of Africa. It's religion bending to local customs.
Christians do it too in NE Africa. Has nothing to do with Christianity either.
But your point about volatility in the Islamic word getting worse is a different matter. Since the West is too hypocritical, it will never see it's own fault in the current Radical Islam problem. So it will get worse. If, however, the American public saw the link between our foreign policy and the problems becoming worse, then we might actually stop making it worse. But that won't happen. Our public is hopelessly lost about Islam.
Blaming the religion makes the problem worse. It;s like when doctors used to bleed patients out when they were ill. They thought it helped.... but they were making things worse.
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All-In [48078]
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I'll make t simple.
Mar 23, 2016, 7:33 PM
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If there was no Islam there wouldn't have been the bombings in Belgium yesterday. Radical teachings based on the Koran are the problem.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Absolutely not true. If Christians were the ones
Mar 23, 2016, 7:34 PM
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living in the political situation that Muslims now face, at this moment in history, it would be Christian bombers and rich spoiled Muslims awkwardly oversimplifying the issue.
History has already demonstrated that. It already happened.
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All-In [48078]
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What's the political situation in Belgium and the USA?
Mar 23, 2016, 10:30 PM
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Why aren't Christians in Belgium and elsewhere blowing themselves up or committing mass murder in the name of their religion? They are also living there? These attackers were from Belgium. Which politics were there excuse to kill their fellow countrymen? Why aren't Christians in the Middle East blowing themselves up? These attackers come from all over the world. Why are white converts to Islam from the USA and Canada who covert to Islam going to fight with ISIS? Is it politics? Is that what it is? It has nothing to do with their Islamic teachings? Why did the Muslims in Indonesia blow apart the Sari Club killing all of those Australians? They were on Bali which isn't even a Muslim island. They traveled from other islands to kill Australian and western tourists. I think you're a little naive to be honest. You're extremely intelligent, but naive on this issue imo. You're in a way making excuses. You don't think the fact that they believe they are getting virgins upon death and that they are shouting God is great while committing some of these acts has anything to do with Islam?
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CU Medallion [58312]
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That's 100% correct. The politics isn't the same for all
Mar 23, 2016, 11:58 PM
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Muslim terrorists. The common thread is their interpretation of Islam.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Re: What's the political situation in Belgium and the USA?
Mar 24, 2016, 10:13 AM
[ in reply to What's the political situation in Belgium and the USA? ] |
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I'm going to engage your points. But I want you to engage mine. Because there is an answer for every point you make, but it's complicated. No matter how much people want it to be true, this is an extremely complex issue and understanding it depends on a lot of experience and knowledge. This is why such horrible opinions on this matter are so rampant. Nobody has the time or the patience to engage properly in complex issues, it seems. And depending on your level of professional experience directly related to this topic, you may want to skip calling me naive here and just consider and engage the points for what they are instead.
Moving on.
Why aren't Christians in Belgium and elsewhere blowing themselves up or committing mass murder in the name of their religion? They are also living there? These attackers were from Belgium. Which politics were there excuse to kill their fellow countrymen?
When I talk about the "political situation" I am talking about the dichotomy of power between the West and the Muslim World. I am also talking about the history of how this dichotomy came to be. I am not talking about the individual government under which some hypocritical psycho terrorist lived. The reason I am talking about the relative power between the Muslim World and the West is that anyone who identifies as a Muslim will also identify with the Muslim World, whether they currently live in Belgium, France or the Moon. This means that when a person looks at history and they look at current events, if they identify with that part of the world they may be troubled. 99% of those people will complain about it on Facebook, or privately to their friends. But a little less than 1% of people, who are violent sociopathic psychos deal with what they feel as injustice differently. They obsess over it and they decide in their head that they can't accept it and they must fight it. The reason they are fighting, other than their extreme personal flaws, is on behalf of the global community they identify with. It has nothing to do with the government of Belgium.
Why aren't Christians in the Middle East blowing themselves up?
Hopefully you already know the answer to this based on my first answer. But to make sure, it's because they are aware that the Christian World (The West) is not currently at a tremendous economic and military disadvantage to the Muslim World because of hundreds of years of exploitation. During the Crusades, when it was the Christian World in the same position of disadvantage, you did have religiously motivated murders of Muslims. Everyone has to ignore this to keep propagating the ignorant a-historical opinion they have about religion and violence.
You don't think the fact that they believe they are getting virgins upon death and that they are shouting God is great while committing some of these acts has anything to do with Islam?
Glad you brought this up. Is Islam used to manipulate idiots into becoming suicide bombers? Yes. Are their isolated verses in the Koran that, if taken out of context, make it easier? Yes. But something that you can't forget, and that many people choose to repeatedly ignore is that the Koran explicitly forbids initiating attacks on non-Muslims. One verse that cherry-picking Islamophobes love is "And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing." But guess what comes IMMEDIATELY before and after...Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. and after "But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers."
Now, I'm no expert in Hermeneutics, but if we are being honest, that clearly says that what ISIS is doing is against Islam. And that's why 99% of Muslims reject ISIS as extremists. That's why Muslim armies are currently fighting and dying to kill ISIS as we sit here.
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All-In [48078]
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Good points and thoughtful..
Mar 24, 2016, 10:24 AM
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That said, in Pew Research polls over 70% of Pakistanis have a favorable view of ISIS. My feelings are that there is a hijacked old world version of Islam and a more modern form of Islam. The ISIS fighters are fighting for Islam and are in a holy war. Politics comes second. That's what they say at least. They don't want to stop until the rule Rome, if even then. That's what they claim. ANyway, I have to read your post again. That was a lot to digest.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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All-In [48078]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Starter [356]
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Re: I gave you the 2013 link already.
Mar 25, 2016, 4:27 PM
[ in reply to I gave you the 2013 link already. ] |
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Those are definitely the same polls, its just that the poll as being described by the article is not being straightforward with the result. In Pakistan (as the article and poll both state) 28% have an unfavorable view of ISIS. The article takes the position that therefore 72% are favorable to ISIS, while the poll, which actually asked that question says 9% are favorable.
Not going to get many uninformed people who hate an individual for no reason other than their culture or religion by saying 9% have a favorable rating...
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CU Medallion [58312]
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A lot of things changed, including the way many Muslims
Mar 23, 2016, 11:55 PM
[ in reply to You don't see what just happened? ] |
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view Islam, and it's not due mainly to political reasons.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Re: A lot of things changed, including the way many Muslims
Mar 24, 2016, 10:18 AM
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So why then have Muslims changed the way they look at their religion? Because unless you say their religion caused them to change their view of religion... then you agree that there are other factors that drive people's use of their religion.
Don't try and dodge it.
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All-In [28802]
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This is just an exercise is fallacious thinking
Mar 23, 2016, 1:56 PM
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That Islam encourages violence and that there are a lot of Muslims doesn't necessarily lead to any conclusions about the percentage of deaths in wars initiated by Muslims.
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CU Medallion [55981]
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Right like just because you got a boner doesn't mean you
Mar 23, 2016, 1:59 PM
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got game.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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You're wrong, but try and explain how something so violent
Mar 23, 2016, 2:00 PM
[ in reply to This is just an exercise is fallacious thinking ] |
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leads to such a small percentage of the world's violence.
The stats show that there are other factors which are clearly more conducive to violence than Islam. I challenge you to comment specifically on that point with some sort of reasoning.
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Legend [15730]
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Like gun ownership in America?***
Mar 23, 2016, 3:25 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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It depends on how you are using it to compare.
Mar 23, 2016, 7:20 PM
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But Islamophobia is very similar to the American anti-gun movement.
Irrationally assigning a simple and stupid solution to a complex problem. Ban guns. But many conservatives (just like neo-liberals) are hypocrites and they don't afford the same logic to Muslims as they do to responsible gun owners.
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Legend [17999]
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Banning a tool versus a person is kind of different, yes?
Mar 23, 2016, 8:12 PM
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especially when that tool's only purpose is to kill?
-I'm not for banning guns, but I do think America fetishizes them to a dangerous degree.
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Legend [15730]
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Just to clarify my flippant comment, I meant it in terms of
Mar 24, 2016, 9:03 AM
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the number of guns and gun owners relative to the issues they cause. SOME anti-gun activists like to portray gun owners as nut jobs, or violent, or militant, or anti-federal-government. Basically as "dangerous". But with the millions of gun owners in the U.S., well, as it is said...if they were a problem, you would know it.
If all Muslims were violent as per the teachings of their faith...we would know it.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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It sounds like you agree with me.***
Mar 24, 2016, 11:26 AM
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Legend [15730]
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I'm not sure. Here I am just aligning the logic between
Mar 24, 2016, 11:48 AM
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the two arguments.
I obviously agree that all Muslims aren't violent. That is demonstrably true.
I do agree that there is an interpretation of Islamic teachings that allows for coexistence. Again, it appears that the majority of Muslims believe this as well.
But then, I also believe that there is an interpretation of Muslim teachings that says that the people should be governed by Islamic law and that the punishments for failing to adhere to Islamic teachings results in brutal punishments, and that anyone that disagrees with this is...well..."part of the problem." The utilization of this interpretation has led to the murder of thousands and thousands of people...often in brutal fashion. So, I don't paint those who are concerned with Islam itself with so broad a brush as to say they are simply "ignorant."
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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No, we actually mostly agree. The only real differences are
Mar 24, 2016, 12:12 PM
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at the end of your post.
So, I don't paint those who are concerned with Islam itself with so broad a brush as to say they are simply "ignorant."
I don't blame anyone who is concerned with aggressively violent interpretations of Islam. I don't blame anyone for wanting to aggressively root out violent interpretations. But trying to blame the whole religion is where the ignorance comes in. Many many people are doing that. They see Islam itself as the source of the violence, which it most certainly isn't. The desire for violence comes elsewhere, and bits of Islam are used to justify it. This tricks many 'drive-thru' blowhards to develop simplistic conclusions about the problem.
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All-In [28802]
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Legend [15730]
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I don't understand your point. Are you trying to make the
Mar 23, 2016, 3:24 PM
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argument that Americans should be more worried about non-Islamic terrorism? What does your first link lead you to conclude? Is anyone arguing that WWII wasn't the bloodiest ever? Is that supposed to be a point of some sort?
And I don't even understand what the second link is saying. Are you saying that Latin American and Caribbean terrorists should concern us more than Islamic terrorists? What does that graph even mean? Attacks on U.S. interests in those regions? Or attacks on the United States from those regions? Or from people from those regions? I don't get it. What defines an attack? Is there any consideration for the severity, casualty, the nature of the target.
Summary? We are wrong to think Islamic terrorism is a threat? Or that it should be a concern?
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Hall of Famer [24628]
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Legend [15730]
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Again, a link but no point (or, to be fair, I'm too stupid
Mar 23, 2016, 4:30 PM
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to intuitively understand your point).
Should we feel more threatened by the U.S. military bases on foreign soil?
I feel like your post was supposed to go on another thread.
If you created a thread where the link was relevant, I certainly wouldn't argue against closing several of our bases overseas.
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All-In [41890]
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I think his point is...
Mar 23, 2016, 4:50 PM
[ in reply to I don't understand your point. Are you trying to make the ] |
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That there have been and still are several threats from non-Islamic sources in the world. The threat from Islam gets special attention where the others do not.
He's not arguing that it isn't something with which to concern ourselves; however, the ideology that many push that the religion of Islam is this massive, growing threat that will consume us just isn't matched by the statistics.
A concern? Yes. Any violent radicalism is a concern. But it is not the giant demon that the Chicken Littles here make it out to be.
As for your questions on the second link, here is a more thorough explanation of the data from the source that compiled it:
http://www.rand.org/nsrd/projects/terrorism-incidents/about/definitions.html
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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I'd love to watch you try to tell this to some of the
Mar 23, 2016, 5:09 PM
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European colleagues(British, German, Swiss, French) I work with. Let me know if you're ever in the upstate, maybe some of them will be in town. They'd love to hear the news.
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All-In [41890]
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Nah, it's cool. I know enough of em here in Charleston
Mar 23, 2016, 6:55 PM
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They seem far more concerned over Trump getting elected.
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Legend [15730]
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Oh. Then what should we worry about? Russia?
Mar 23, 2016, 5:22 PM
[ in reply to I think his point is... ] |
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HA HA HA HA HA! Just kidding, of course. Hello? 1980s?
Anyway, if that's the point, I'd say it's wrong. I can't think of any grouping of people that should concern us more from a terrorist perspective than Islamic terrorism. And that includes militias, Christian fundamentalists, racists...really I can't think of any other "ism" or hate group that worries me more. The reason is that every other terrorist act built on some idealism seems to be only a solitary wacko (ie Charleston, Norway) or a fairly contained bunch of wackos (ie the KKK). Islamic terrorism hates me...hates all of us. It has successfully killed thousands in America, hundreds and Paris, dozens in Belgium, and of course thousands in the Middle East. It has a level of weaponry that some countries would only dream of having. It is well financed. And it cuts off heads, mutilates and burns alive. It can't seem to be reasoned with. So, you concern yourself with Greenpeace or FCA or whatever keeps you up at night. For me, Islamic Terrorism has earned its spot on my radar.
I agree with you that those who fear Islam in and of itself are overreacting...but I don't fault them or belittle them for exploring the teachings of the religion with a suspicious eye.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Re: I don't understand your point. Are you trying to make the
Mar 23, 2016, 7:18 PM
[ in reply to I don't understand your point. Are you trying to make the ] |
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Point #1 Islam is not the source of the violence. It's something else. It it was Islam then Muslims would be responsible for a higher percentage of violence than they are. Other factors are clearly the prime movers for global violence.
Point #2 Many conservatives believe that Islam is the primary existential threat to the U.S.. If that were true, then the stats in the 2nd link (or the first) wouldn't work.
To answer your last question.
Radical Islam is a threat. Al Qaeda, ISIS and their affiliates should be mercilessly executed. But people who think it's Islam that's the driving force behind terrorism is ignorant.
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Legend [17854]
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Actually, it is the Capitalist American lifestyle behind it
Mar 23, 2016, 10:52 PM
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- terrorism, that is. Because we are, and we live in direct contradiction to Islamic teaching, making us "infidels" to be slaughtered, creating the ISIS fanatic and suicide bombers, and always will until the American Capitalist no longer exists - by being eradicated or ruled over - forcing us into slavery or death, ###### our wives and daughters and beheading our families until said eradication is fulfilled - that makes us responsible for the suffering of the world. It's the American way. Its all about us. We are to blame.
Message was edited by: HuntClub®
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All-In [38514]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Legend [17854]
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No
Mar 24, 2016, 11:04 AM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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It was a rhetorical question, but +1 for answering truthfully.
Mar 24, 2016, 11:15 AM
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Legend [15730]
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Re: I don't understand your point. Are you trying to make the
Mar 24, 2016, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't understand your point. Are you trying to make the ] |
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#1) I'm not sure your analysis is any more thorough than those who said "Muslims did it, so Islam must be violent."
#2) Again, I just don't see how the link can confirm that. Many AMERICANS...not just conservatives...think Islamic terrorism is the #1 threat to the U.S. As I alluded to previously, our current president mocked his opponent four years ago for implying that Russia was a bigger threat than Al-Qaida. And I'm sorry but I find WWII's casualty statistics to be a veeerrry weak counterargument to this position.
To respond to your last comment:
I think I've read numerous experts who have illustrated how you could use the teachings of Islam to justify many of the atrocities we are seeing today. Thankfully the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the world reject these interpretations.
Thanks for clarifying.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Re: I don't understand your point. Are you trying to make the
Mar 24, 2016, 10:52 AM
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#1) I'm not sure your analysis is any more thorough than those who said "Muslims did it, so Islam must be violent."
That's a lazy response, don't you think? Anybody can just make a claim with no explanation.
#2) Again, I just don't see how the link can confirm that. Many AMERICANS...not just conservatives...think Islamic terrorism is the #1 threat to the U.S. As I alluded to previously, our current president mocked his opponent four years ago for implying that Russia was a bigger threat than Al-Qaida. And I'm sorry but I find WWII's casualty statistics to be a veeerrry weak counterargument to this position.
The link wasn't supposed to prove that most Americans think that terrorism is the #1 threat. That was supposed to be a given. But since it appears to be a point of contention with you... here http://www.gallup.com/poll/187655/americans-name-terrorism-no-problem.aspx
And your last sentence there about ww2 missed the point entirely. Re-read to fix.
I think I've read numerous experts who have illustrated how you could use the teachings of Islam to justify many of the atrocities we are seeing today. Thankfully the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the world reject these interpretations.
How does that disagree with what I said?
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Legend [15730]
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If this is all a brave, bold stand against the position
Mar 24, 2016, 12:02 PM
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that ever Muslim is a terrorist, then you're right, we agree.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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No, as I have said, my argument is that the source of
Mar 24, 2016, 12:16 PM
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ISIS/Al Qaeda terrorism is not that some people read the Koran and said "You know what, God wants us to start killing people."
To believe something like that requires ignorance. It's not just a different perspective. It's an idea built on 'not knowing stuff.'
It comes from screwed up people, who are mad at how the West has treated the Muslim World, and who believe their preferred way of life is under threat of eradication, using bits and pieces of Islam to justify their spiteful views and their bloodlust to the rest of the world. And the vast majority of Muslims believe that they are going against Islam.
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All-In [48078]
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