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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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Lectrikal qwershun......for Lunge electricians
May 12, 2020, 12:04 PM
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Ok, so figured out the freezer problem. Fridge and freezer on same GFCI system (in the garage). Freezer pulls 5 amps, and fridge (old) pulls 12.5 amps. If both running, that's 17.5 amps. GFCI (main) is a 15A GFCI outlet. Fridge and freezer together are overloading the GFCI outlet (my theory). There are several other GFCI branching off the main one across the garage.
So, there's no way to access a non-GFCI plug in the garage to offload either the fridge or freezer. They won't work together on a standard 15A power strip either. Yet they have for years....anyway.....
Checked the fuse box. GFCI's in garage are on a 20A breaker. The breaker never tripped, just the main GFCI outlet. So, could I possibly replace the 15A GFCI box where the line goes in (main with the trip switch) with a 20A one then run a 20A power strip that plugs into a 20A outlet, but has 15A plugs? Second question, do the other presumably 15A GFCI plugs in the garage work well with the main GFCI being 20A, if I replaced it?
Repair dude swears there's no problem with the freezer. Yet it pulls only 5 amps (newer). Did not have confidence in appliance guy because he said the freezer pulls more amps than the fridge. i showed him the tags. Anyway.....there's no short in it. We isolated the tripping to the freezer. Fridge works fine. Discovered freezer works fine plugged directly into the GFCI outlet too, BUT trips it with an extension cord, or a power strip, even with JUSt the 5A freezer.
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Oculus Spirit [80999]
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Rather than do anything, just
May 12, 2020, 12:15 PM
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Get another freezer. Holy crap..that things pulls 12.5 amps while running? What does it pull while starting? It's going to trip a 20 amp breaker by itself if that's not starts up amperage. Anything above about 16 amps will trip a 20 amp breaker-- especially a surge.
Just run the freezer on a separate breaker or ext cord. It doesn't need to be GFCI.
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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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Fridge is old, 1990 fridge. It's the power hog at 12.5amps
May 12, 2020, 12:30 PM
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per the sticker. Freezer is maybe 9-10 years old, and pulls 5 amps, per sticker. Oddly, the refrigerator works fine. We isolated the problem tripping the GFCI to the freezer. Even with just the freezer plugged in with an extension cord, or through the power strip, both scenarios tripped the GFCI. Also plugged JUST the freezer into the kitchen GFCI with an extension cord (separate chain of outlets on a different fuse in the panel), and it tripped the kitchen GFCI too. Solution appears to be plugging the freezer directly into the outlet. Both seem happy that way. But odd it trips the GFCI when run through an extension cord or a power strip. And it's not the GFCI gone bad, because we tested it in the kitchen as well.
There's SOMETHING wrong in it, but the compressor and everything else is working well. But still, I'd like to put them on a 20 amp GFCI, which appears to be doable.
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All-In [46801]
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Hope this helps
May 12, 2020, 12:17 PM
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All-TigerNet [13764]
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Re: Lectrikal qwershun......for Lunge electricians
May 12, 2020, 12:31 PM
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Change the 15A GFCI outlet to a 20A GFCI outlet. GFCI's are not required for garage interior either so you could eliminate the GFCI all together if you wanted and install a regular 20A outlet.
Adding anything to the circuit (power strip, extension cords, etc) adds resistance and will require higher than rated amperage on startup. This is usually not an issue for low amperage household items but higher amperage items (compressors, saws etc) can highlight these issues. The longer the cord the more resistance it adds.
Also, what's the age/manufacturer of the panel, breakers and the outlet if you can see it? These all have a life span of a certain number of "trips" they can endure before they begin to degrade and under perform.
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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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Don't know but I'd bet that thing has tripped 30 times in
May 12, 2020, 12:37 PM
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the past week. Maybe once a year for 10 years prior, if that. Don't know the manufacturer, but knowing the builder it was whatever was cheapest at Lowes.
So in theory, since the fuse in the panel is 20A I can just swap out that main GFCi to a 20amp? Fuse never tripped in the panel, just the GFCi outlet. Will the rest of the outlets be ok because I really don't want to have to do too much work (time).
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All-TigerNet [13764]
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Re: Don't know but I'd bet that thing has tripped 30 times in
May 12, 2020, 12:45 PM
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Yes if the breaker is 20A just switch the outlet to a 20A (GFCI or not whatever makes you happy). 15A outlets are cheaper than 20A outlets so that is probably why it was installed in the first place.
Did you test across the splice you made from the rat chewing through a wire? A bad splice can create issues as well if your not reading all the way to zero when ohming it out. Seems to me that's the only thing that's changed, correct?
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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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Yeah, appliance guy checked that said it was fine.
May 12, 2020, 12:53 PM
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It's pulling what it should pull (freezer). I'll just grab a 20 amp GFCI outlet, because regardless, I know the amps are over 15 with both combined. So I should do that anyway. Then in theory I should try a 20 amp power strip too. Ugh, getting into some cash now. Still not bad.
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All-In [31861]
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See below posts....
May 12, 2020, 1:52 PM
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it's not what the freezer is "pulling" that's your problem, but rather how much current is leaking to ground....called leakage current. When insulation in motors (or anything really) starts to fail, the leakage current increases. Explain why it used to work as set-up and now doesn't.
I don't think changing to a 20A GFCI is going to make much difference, since the ground current trip threshold is probably the same between a 20A and 15A GFCI.
I would bet you don't have a current draw problem, you have a current leakage problem.
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Oculus Spirit [75683]
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I want to know why we even waste time
May 12, 2020, 12:38 PM
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with these 20 amp breakers, just make them all hundos and lets get going.
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All-In [47701]
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Is there any milk in the freezer?
May 12, 2020, 12:48 PM
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May wanna look into that.
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All-In [31861]
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GFCI outlets typically wouldn't be tripping on overload...
May 12, 2020, 12:53 PM
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that is the job of the breaker.
GFCI is only really sensitive to leakage current.
If your freezer is tripping the GFCI outlet all by itself (as I think I understood you say below), then you likely have another problem. Possibly a wiring problem. And you said they worked for years off of the same 15 power strip but won't now. Is the strip breaker tripping or still the GFCI? You might have a problem with the power strip.
Try the freezer and fridge plugged directly into the outlet and see what happens.
And don't run a freezer from an extension cord...unless you've got an expensive one with larger than normal wire gauge. The motors in freezers aren't going to like the added resistance that is going to come from a typical extension cord.
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Oculus Spirit [80999]
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I've noticed GFCI's are sensitive to high* amperage loads.
May 12, 2020, 12:58 PM
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(High amperage relative to the GFCI outlet, anyway.)
I always assumed it was something in the GFCI "circuitry" that added to its overhead causing the delta in vs out to trip it unnecessarily.
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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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They suck.***
May 12, 2020, 12:59 PM
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All-In [31861]
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Shouldn't be if made well....
May 12, 2020, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to I've noticed GFCI's are sensitive to high* amperage loads. ] |
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GFCI has a current transformer placed around the neutral and ground wires in opposing directions. When the neutral current and ground current passing through the CT's window are equal, they cancel each other out. The GFCI has some threshold it trips at, as there is always some minor difference between neutral current and ground current.
From the description, I would bet that the evaporator fan or compression fan motor or compressor itself is starting to fail and the leakage current has increased over time. That would explain why it has all "worked" for years, but now doesn't. Also would explain why it might trip with the freezer being on a power strip or extension cord, but doesn't trip when plugged in directly to outlet.
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CU Medallion [65983]
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Oculus Spirit [75683]
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Hey, you can retire soonish, so there is that.***
May 12, 2020, 1:19 PM
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Not an electrician, just a dude with a little bit of sense.
May 12, 2020, 2:40 PM
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That seems like an excessive amount of current draw for a freezer.
Sounds like your freezer is a ragged piece of crap.
Plus, I agree with what somebody else said about current leakage and the GFCI.
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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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12 amps is the refrigerator, which works fine
May 12, 2020, 2:58 PM
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and doesn't trip the switch. It's around 30 years old.
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