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110%er [5962]
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SEC and Gentlemans agreement?
May 26, 2012, 7:19 PM
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If the SEC were to extend an invite to us and FSU, could A&M and Mizzou voting for us trump the four school veto? What is the % for a vote to pass?
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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I'm pretty sure that whole thing is bogus. UGA fans
May 26, 2012, 7:28 PM
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certainly don't seem to be on-board with it. I think they would vote in favor of Clemson and GT IF the numbers work out.
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110%er [5962]
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I've felt they could probably get away with it if it was
May 26, 2012, 7:37 PM
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only to add teams, but with the real possibility of the BigXII snatching up a bunch of the SEC's neighbors while increasing their own footprint might be a threat. Would the SEC really want to trade CU, FSU, GT, ND, UL, and possibly UM just to pick up NCSU and VT? The next moves will be to 16 teams and I think the SEC has backed themselves into a corner. Do they pick up a couple mediocre teams to expand their market and allow the BigXII to poach the southeast or will they try to block it? Should be a fun few weeks till kickoff.
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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All-Pro [669]
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Re: I've felt they could probably get away with it if it was
May 26, 2012, 7:54 PM
[ in reply to I've felt they could probably get away with it if it was ] |
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with the $$ floating around with market share and national recognition, this is a salient point. Clemson gives you 0 for additional regional coverage, however buys you larger recognition for the brand. I live in New Mexico and although there aren't many CU fans here, they all know the paw and relate it to the school and to watching football. That must be weighted against say a VT with an increase in regional coverage but, regardless of success on the field for many years now, a lack of interest in the actual team.
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CU Medallion [55297]
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CU Medallion [67693]
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Associate AD [833]
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Re: I've felt they could probably get away with it if it was
May 26, 2012, 7:54 PM
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I agree. The only chance of an SEC offer is as a defensive move. However I don't see it happening.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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SEC and Gentlemen in the same sentence? LOL!***
May 26, 2012, 8:10 PM
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All-American [580]
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"Outkick The Coverage" has a great article titled
May 26, 2012, 8:14 PM
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"Virginia Tech Fans Catch SEC Fever". It very fully and well explains why clemson, FSU and GT will never get an invite to the SEC. And it's a recent article, too.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: "Outkick The Coverage" has a great article titled
May 26, 2012, 8:20 PM
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Can you provide a link to this article? Sounds like it would be an interesting read.
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Rock Defender [72]
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Re: "Outkick The Coverage" has a great article titled
May 26, 2012, 8:28 PM
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I am guessing not but everyone is writing about the expansion. The super conference is coming and should be fun to watch who goes where.
If FSU, GT and Clemson go to the big12 will this end their in state rivalry game with the schools in the SEC?
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Walk-On [118]
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Rock Defender [72]
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Re: Link
May 26, 2012, 8:37 PM
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If the SEC does take VT then I assume UVA goes with them. We can all assume or guess.
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Addict [400]
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my assumption is based on everything I've read
May 26, 2012, 8:45 PM
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have you read a different figure for the new SEC TV deal?
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CU Guru [1714]
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VT/UVA
May 27, 2012, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Link ] |
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my understanding is that they are bound by commonwealth law to be in the conference. i guess that came about whenever VT accepted a bid to the ACC from the Big East.
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Recruit [98]
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Re: VT/UVA
May 27, 2012, 12:11 PM
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There is no such law for VT and UVA to be in the same conference. If the ACC implodes then it will be "every man for himself" so to speak.
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110%er [8095]
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The math is off. Not every VA resident watches football.
May 26, 2012, 8:56 PM
[ in reply to Link ] |
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And certainly the UVA fans will not watch VA Tech games. Someone needs to re-do the math.
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All-American [580]
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SEC Network will not be a stand-alone. It will be packaged
May 26, 2012, 9:25 PM
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with other sports programming.
By the way, I watch Raycom clemson games, hoping to watch them lose. UVA fans do the same with VT games.
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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Re: Honestly, I think UVA fans have better things to do. If
May 26, 2012, 9:30 PM
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they're so rabid in pulling against VT, why are their viewership number so low?
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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All-American [580]
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Rock Defender [72]
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Re: SEC Network will not be a stand-alone. It will be packaged
May 26, 2012, 10:24 PM
[ in reply to SEC Network will not be a stand-alone. It will be packaged ] |
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You would not watch if you had to pay and neither would any other fan of one school. That is why the SEC-ESPN deal is so big. I don't see the SEC messing with their sweet deal but that is just me.
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All-American [580]
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Re: SEC Network will not be a stand-alone. It will be packaged
May 26, 2012, 10:28 PM
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It is just you. Read the SEC website "Mr. SEC" and, you will then sing another tune. Again, the SEC Network will be packaged with other popular "must see" programming.
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Rock Defender [72]
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Re: SEC Network will not be a stand-alone. It will be packaged
May 26, 2012, 10:31 PM
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I am not Mr. SEC and all I am say is why pay for football when you can watch it for free unless your team is playing. I am Mr. what is best for Clemson.
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Freshman [4]
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Re: SEC Network will not be a stand-alone. It will be packaged
May 26, 2012, 11:10 PM
[ in reply to SEC Network will not be a stand-alone. It will be packaged ] |
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It will not matter if VaTech or Virginia fans are segregated. The payoff is for all cable households in the state regardless of who they pull for.
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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Re: And your argument (and Neilly's) is that it does not
May 27, 2012, 10:03 AM
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matter if no on actually watches in that state. I see your point, but I'm just not sure how practical that is long-term. Honestly, this has the feel of the BC expansion to me.
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CU Guru [1714]
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Re: The math is off. Not every VA resident watches football.
May 27, 2012, 11:25 AM
[ in reply to The math is off. Not every VA resident watches football. ] |
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are you saying that you never watch usuck play to get pummeled? cavalier fans WILL watch tech. i'm sure not on a 1 to 1 ratio, but it would surprise you how many people follow their rival almost as closely as their own team so they can jaw at work the following monday.
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CU Guru [1714]
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sorry, point already made
May 27, 2012, 11:28 AM
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and hence dear tigernetters why it isn't always good to reply as soon as you think something... may as well read on down to see if that point has been made already. lol
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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Re: The only time I watch USC is when I have an interest
May 27, 2012, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: The math is off. Not every VA resident watches football. ] |
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in the other team. I think last year the only USC game I watched was Navy.
Generally speaking, USC just bores the heck out of me - I don't hate them, I just find them boring. My following of USC's season is pretty strictly limited to the news. Maybe I'm the only one too busy to closely follow both, though.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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That's convenient for Clay, except when the SEC was going
May 26, 2012, 8:43 PM
[ in reply to "Outkick The Coverage" has a great article titled ] |
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through expansion he said the only reason Clemson and FSU wouldn't get in is because of an agreement between USuCk, UF, UGAy, and UT to deny in-state schools from expansion. So which is it Clay?
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CU Guru [1714]
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who is tennessee trying to block?***
May 27, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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I have not read the article, but I admit that your scenario
May 26, 2012, 9:28 PM
[ in reply to "Outkick The Coverage" has a great article titled ] |
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seems possible. As I said, it will be interesting to see the SEC's priorities and strategy when the other shoe drops.
Having said that, I just can't see why a bunch of folks in VA would be expected to shell out the money for a special station to watch 3rd-tier VT/SEC games when they're not watching the big games for free - see the charts from Tomahawk Nation, linked above. This in a year they played for the conference title and in the Sugar Bowl, too! What if they hadn't played Clemson twice and the SB game?!
While I don't doubt that more people watch when there's an in-state school involved, I think that with a national brand like the SEC and the intelligence of the leadership, the overall viewership numbers may be more significant. Perhaps I'm alone, but I certainly wouldn't pay for a premium channel to watch colleges other than Clemson just because USC is in that league. I don't think UVA fans will either, and the numbers indicate that VT alone isn't really a media market standout.
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All-American [580]
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Re: I have not read the article, but I admit that your scenario
May 26, 2012, 10:07 PM
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But again, the SEC Network won't stand alone. It will be packaged with other various sports programming.
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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I follow. Still - 3rd Tier games? It would all crumble
May 27, 2012, 10:01 AM
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with a la carte programming options. Wouldn't it be better to allow each team their own 3rd tier rights to sell own their own?
I guess I'm just not sure it's smart to expand/dilute a national brand on the basis of third-tier programming. I'm sure the folks in charge know what they're doing, though...
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Rock Defender [72]
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Freshman [4]
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Re: "Outkick The Coverage" has a great article titled
May 26, 2012, 11:07 PM
[ in reply to "Outkick The Coverage" has a great article titled ] |
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And once Maryland is off the market the OKTC article will be wrong. Should the SEC land a Carolina and Virginia Team they might decide to go for the Maryland market plus on national brand in their footprint to round out at 18. If Maryland is gone to the B1G or Big 12 at that time then the SEC would look for a national brand inside it's footprint (FSU over Miami) and a team to go with them (Clemson over Ga Tech). That's how the SEC could still happen for your guys. I think Slive would be wise (if VaTech and NCState or UNC aren't receptive now, to go ahead and get FSU and You and then wait for the Big 10 to make a move. Then Va Tech and a Carolina school could be picked up as #17 & #18. If you think I'm nuts about 18 teams just try to balance the 4 division of 4 geographically and strength wise in the SEC. It just doesn't work. Markets and Content and Balance take it to 18.
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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Re: I agree that 18 is better than 16 in many ways. 14 is a
May 27, 2012, 10:42 AM
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manageable number, too, if organized well. In the SEC, one could easily switch both AL schools to the East, MO and Vandy to the West, preserving all important traditional rivalries and rotating two games per year. So, obviously the current situation is provisional on the part of the SEC.
In the ACC, a true geographic basis for the conference with Clemson and all schools to the south plus the three Triange schools would preserve FSU-UM, CU-GT, UNC-NCSU and Duke, while still allowing for a manageable 8-game schedule if the permanent rivals are dropped in favor of two rotating games.
With 16, all that blows up - so if you're going to make life complicated, you might as well go all the way to 18 or even 20.
I see your argument regarding expansion of tier 3 programming, but this really seems strange to me, just based on the scarcity of tier 1 options. There will ALWAYS be tier 3 options available - but how many tier 1 options are really out there? Maybe 4? I wouldn't risk letting those get away for tier 3 options I could have at any time...
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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Re: Another thing: If the SEC went to 18 taking
May 27, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Clemson, GT, and VT, you might well get the state of NC "for free"...there are LOTS of Clemson, GT, and VT folks in Charlotte and the Research Triangle.
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Addict [400]
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Assuming the new SEC TV package is in the 25-30 mil range
May 26, 2012, 8:25 PM
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Clemson and FSU would have to demonstrate that if they came into the SEC, they would add to that. Since no new TV markets would be added, I doubt they could make that case and I doubt it would be approved. There's no need to expand if it doesn't enhance revenues and no one will vote a cut in their revenue that might occur with the funds being split 2 more ways. If Clemson and FSU could make the case that their admittance would raise each teams cut, I don't believe anyone would vote against it.
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Rock Defender [72]
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Re: Assuming the new SEC TV package is in the 25-30 mil range
May 26, 2012, 8:34 PM
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You know what happens when you assume. If the 4 team super conference comes about which it makes sense to me it will. Then all of the four conferences will demand their piece of the playoff pie. If that is the case then it will be a scramble to see who goes where to make the strongest super conference.
It will be fun to watch and I think Clemson will have a seat @ the table.
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Freshman [4]
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Re: Assuming the new SEC TV package is in the 25-30 mil range
May 26, 2012, 11:14 PM
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Look for the SEC TV package to be in the range of 24 - 26 million per team. Third tier rights raise that to around 30 million. But starting in 2014 the cable package will take that to about a 50 million per team payoff. That's why cable market size is so important. It's why Mizzou got in over WVU. It's why we want a Carolina and Virginia team.
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All-American [580]
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The SEC already has cable and sattelite subscribers in
May 26, 2012, 8:35 PM
[ in reply to Assuming the new SEC TV package is in the 25-30 mil range ] |
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Florida, Georgia and South Carolina. Having a team in the state, per the Big 10 Network stats, increases the payout by TEN TIMES, what not having a team does. Since the SEC is going to establish its own network, you can see why financially the pay off comes by going into new states. It's the numbers.
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Rock Defender [72]
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Re: The SEC already has cable and sattelite subscribers in
May 26, 2012, 8:41 PM
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We all understand its all about the money. If the SEC want to make their own network I am sure they can do so.
Why would they do the network when they have ESPN. The SEC is the ESPN brand right now. Will the SEC have to give back money to ESPN if they start their own network?
Just asking.
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All-American [580]
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Re: The SEC already has cable and sattelite subscribers in
May 26, 2012, 8:45 PM
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They'll do like the Big 10....go into partnership with ESPN (Big 10 is in partnership with Fox).
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Rock Defender [72]
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Re: The SEC already has cable and sattelite subscribers in
May 26, 2012, 9:04 PM
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That just does not sound like a good plan to me. The SEC is now the national brand and if they go with their own network then they will be like the big10.
They are right where they want to be. IMHO
Make their own network then most of the country will not pay to watch when they can watch for free some other teams like the from the big12.
I am not sure how old you are but the big10 was on TV all the time until they made their network. I can see this happening to the SEC as well.
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All-American [580]
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Re: The SEC already has cable and sattelite subscribers in
May 26, 2012, 9:23 PM
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SEC Network will not be a stand-alone. It will be packaged with other sports programmimg.
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CU Guru [1714]
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Re: The SEC already has cable and sattelite subscribers in
May 27, 2012, 11:38 AM
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i think i have read that statement about 5 times haha. makes much more sense to be packaged than a stand alone. as much as i dislike things about the attitude of (some of) the SEC members i really have to give props to Slive who has proven himself a fantastic commish
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: The SEC already has cable and sattelite subscribers in
May 26, 2012, 8:47 PM
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You (ACC) do not have your own network.
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All-American [580]
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Also, you are talking about (BC) a northeastern school,
May 26, 2012, 8:49 PM
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which is city-wide, not state-wide, in a region where pro sports, not college sports, rules.
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Junkie [590]
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Re: Also, you are talking about (BC) a northeastern school,
May 26, 2012, 10:13 PM
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People would be paying for their channel weather or not they watched it.That is why the SEC is moving in the direction you see them going.They are already cutting the middle man out of the bowl games.Now they are going to do the same with TV revenue.
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Associate AD [810]
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Tigerstripe is right
May 27, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Those of you thinking ESPN controls everything need to look at an older Outkickthecoverage article where Clay does a good job giving reasons why ESPN does not have a bright future. ESPN is the middleman and conference networks aim to cut out the middleman and keep that profit within the conference.
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CU Guru [1714]
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lawyers at closing
May 27, 2012, 11:45 AM
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i read that article. the only reason i tend to disagree is due to national broadcasting ability. ALL conferences can work up their own tv networks but then they have to figure out a way for people NATIONALLY to buy the channel. ESPN is already on nearly every television in america. that promotes national branding. it is why my father-in-law in phoenix knows clemson football even though the only time he's been to SC was for my wedding. if you cut out espn, cbs, abc, fox, or nbc then you really cut off your nose to spite your face. i see it as having a lawyer at a real estate closing. you REALLY don't want to have to pay the person but they are needed.
granted, neilly has pointed out FREQUENTLY that the sec network won't be a stand-alone and i do not disagree because of my previous statements. this post is meant to disagree with the idea that espn is on the way out the door on account of a stand-alone conference network not being a good idea.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Let's be perfectly blunt here, Toogie. If Clemson were to
May 27, 2012, 11:25 AM
[ in reply to Assuming the new SEC TV package is in the 25-30 mil range ] |
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come into the SEC, then more people around the country would tune in to watch us than would watch your school. Clemson obviously has a much, much better history and tradition, plus a stronger national brand. It's the national brand part of it that conferences are really after. It's about the number of viewers across the country, not about the number of TV sets in a given region.
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Fan [55]
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Re: SEC and Gentlemans agreement?
May 26, 2012, 9:40 PM
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If slive wanted the votes he would get them. However, he has said in the past that he doesnt want to do anything with the minimum votes needed. In the last round of expansion he said he eouldnt do anything without 11 votes even though he only needed 9. The strength of the SEC is that the schools work together and dlive isnt going to destroy the unity he has.
Doesnt matter anyways. The gentlemens agreement is unnecessary because slive doesnt want clemson or fsu. Its a business decision not a rivalry decision.
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All-American [580]
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Re: SEC and Gentlemans agreement?
May 26, 2012, 10:08 PM
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You are spot on.
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110%er [8095]
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: The strength of the SEC???
May 26, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Believe it or not, ESPN has been paying more to the ACC than it has to the SEC. The difference maker for the SEC has been CBS.
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Freshman [4]
TigerPulse: 62%
Posts: 26
Joined: 2/6/12
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Re: The strength of the SEC???
May 26, 2012, 11:26 PM
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CBS is the reason that Clemson and FSU may be yet considered. Texas A&M and Mizzou are not going to net additional revenue from CBS. CBS wants the SEC to have 4 teams in a playoff for just the conference championship. We could do that with 16, but we gain more markets and content with 18(3 divisional champs & 1 at large). CBS said they would pay for additional inventory. FSU would mean at least 8 more marquee matchups in inventory. That's why they aren't off the radar. Clemson provides the second most eyeballs behind the Seminoles provided the SEC already has Va Tech lined up. Miami I doubt would be in the running. We don't need three from any state. Clemson is a much better draw than Ga Tech and travels well. CBS will drive the content, cable will drive market size additions. That's another reason I think we go to 18. That way we can raise both the cable revenue and the Tier 1 & 2 revenue. Plus look at the divisions:
East: Va Tech, NC State or UNC, U.S.C., Clemson, UGA, Fla
Central: Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee, Auburn, Ala, FSU
WEest: Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss State, Mizzou, A&M
There's the balance we need to make this work.
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 2479
Joined: 6/2/11
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The obsession this board has to join the SEC is like that of
May 26, 2012, 10:20 PM
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a stalker. It's kind of scary. Man, I'd love to be in the SEC. Any Clemson fan that says they wouldn't remind me of all the actors who said they weren't interested in being the "next James Bond". They're lying. But sometimes there are certain things that are just not in the cards. Then, you just have to go after another role. It's as simple as that.
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Rock Defender [72]
TigerPulse: 55%
Posts: 302
Joined: 4/28/12
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Re: The obsession this board has to join the SEC is like that of
May 26, 2012, 10:29 PM
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I agree and if it is the big12 so be it.
I am still wonder what will happen with the in state rivals in the SEC when they go to the big12. Will they end up like Texas and A&M. Who knows?
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Freshman [4]
TigerPulse: 62%
Posts: 26
Joined: 2/6/12
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Re: SEC and Gentlemans agreement?
May 26, 2012, 10:56 PM
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There is no Gentlemens agreement. There is only a cable market that pays .90 cents per household in a state for the first team and .20 cents per household for a second team in the same state. Since Tier 1 & 2 are based on content F.S.U. and Clemson would be a plus for these tiers. Tier 3 is about market size for the new cable network, which has been driving the SEC expansion so far. North Carolina and Virginia as states would boost the revenue almost 50% for cable. While FSU & Clemson would add to this total it would be $1.40 less per household in the states of Florida and South Carolina to add them than the equal number of households in Carolina and Virginia. The good news for you is that when the tird tier expansion is over (likely with #15 & #16) Tier 1 and 2 will again emerge as priorities. I think eventually the SEC will be three divisions of 6 teams. FSU and Clemson add a ton of content and could easily be the final two teams. 4 divisions of 4 means that a division winner could have a losing record in the conference. How lame is that? The Big 12 & Big 10 would both be better off at 18 for markets and content. Only the PAC is holding things up.
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Rock Defender [72]
TigerPulse: 55%
Posts: 302
Joined: 4/28/12
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Re: SEC and Gentlemans agreement?
May 27, 2012, 10:05 AM
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I think they go to 20 teams per conference. That would be a total of 80 teams. They can have the 16 team playoff and the bowl games too.
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Oculus Spirit [90725]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 45484
Joined: 10/18/09
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Make it easy...invite Tigers, and either Noles or Jackets***
May 27, 2012, 1:30 PM
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Go TiGERs!
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