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YOUR BALANCE
Front Page Story: Bowden: Swinney has taken Clemson to the next level
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Front Page Story: Bowden: Swinney has taken Clemson to the next level


Jul 26, 2012, 11:10 AM

 
Bowden: Swinney has taken Clemson to the next level

Former Clemson head coach Tommy Bowden gives his take on Dabo Swinney and the Clemson program going into the 2012 season. Full Story »


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Re: Front Page Story: Bowden: Swinney has taken Clemson to the next level


Jul 26, 2012, 11:50 AM

I have to agree with this article and the comments made 100%. He has done a great job, and made changes that he saw necessary in order for the program to move forward. Yes he still has plenty of room for improvement, but I do feel that he is accepting new goals as a challenge, and will continue to allow the program to progress. Great Article!!

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B-b-b-but, we need a "name" Head Coach!


Jul 26, 2012, 11:51 AM

;)

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We're friends. You laugh, I laugh. You cry, I cry. You jump off a bridge, I get in my boat and save your retarded a$$.


Seem kinda safe to say we have one.***


Jul 26, 2012, 12:03 PM



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Re: B-b-b-but, we need a "name" Head Coach!


Jul 26, 2012, 11:01 PM [ in reply to B-b-b-but, we need a "name" Head Coach! ]

Why?

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Does anyone else see the irony in this comment....


Jul 26, 2012, 11:54 AM

"One of the toughest things you can do as a coach is make decisions with your staff."

####, if he would've gotten rid of Spence, he might still be here. Glad he didn't get rid of Spence.

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null


Re: Does anyone else see the irony in this comment....


Jul 26, 2012, 12:08 PM

No need to knock TB...he has a lot of class and know how. I know he had a hard time admitting when he was wrong or made a mistake (as most all of us, especially coaches, do) but he started this whole process of getting Clemson going in the correct direction...Hell, he recommended who his replacement should be and walked away when he felt like he had lost the confidence of the fan base and the program. I met TB three years ago at a FCA dinner in Knoxville, TN and I approached him after his excellent speech and thanked him for what he did for Clemson University...he said to me..."We got very close to getting Clemson to the next level but I think this next guy (Swinney) will be the one who can do it." That takes a lot of class and strength to say something like that. Bowden is still a huge fan of the program and progress at Clemson....make no mistake about it! All In!!

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Re: Does anyone else see the irony in this comment....


Jul 26, 2012, 1:22 PM

Agree completely. Bowden is a good man and did a lot of good for Clemson. He left us in FAR better shape than he found us and he positioned us well to take that next step. I think we owe him some gratitude.

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Tommy Bowden is going to be one of those people....


Jul 26, 2012, 3:21 PM

.....that history is going to treat a lot better than he has been treated to this point because of what he did to get this program headed in the right direction.

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Re: Does anyone else see the irony in this comment....


Jul 26, 2012, 2:15 PM [ in reply to Re: Does anyone else see the irony in this comment.... ]

Completely agree. Bowden was a good coach and is a great man. He did a lot of good things for Clemson, but just wasn't the guy to get us over the hump. Hopefully Dabo's that guy (I think he is at least).

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Re: Does anyone else see the irony in this comment....


Jul 26, 2012, 5:42 PM [ in reply to Re: Does anyone else see the irony in this comment.... ]

I have all the reason in the world to knock TB. I went to a football camp at Clemson in HS and the guy was a complete Di$%. I mean, I don't care whether he was having a bad day or what, he should have pulled it together around a bunch of HS kids. I walked away from him instead of getting my picture made with him, which was one of the things you did at the end. He looked pissed off, but I don't care. You aren't a God. I'd rather have a picture with Herring anyway. He was a badas$.

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Very True and He


Jul 26, 2012, 11:29 PM [ in reply to Re: Does anyone else see the irony in this comment.... ]

pushed hard to get the West Zone a reality.

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Bowden said a lot of good things...


Jul 26, 2012, 12:03 PM

However, his comment about having that one player to make a difference seems to imply that he never had that player. He had James Davis, CJ Spiller, Jacoby Ford, and Aaron Kelly all on one team. No excuses there.

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Yeah, I didn't like that either. To imply that without


Jul 26, 2012, 12:09 PM

Sammy we would've only won 7-8 games is sour grapes to me. Maybe so, maybe not, but I still would've liked our chances with Boyd, Nuke, Ellington, Allen, Peake, Bryant, Humphries, etc....D@mn, he doesn't coach here anymore and he's still making excuses for his incompetency while he was here.

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null


Re: Yeah, I didn't like that either. To imply that without


Jul 26, 2012, 1:57 PM

Is he still getting paid.

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Re: Yeah, I didn't like that either. To imply that without


Jul 26, 2012, 3:20 PM [ in reply to Yeah, I didn't like that either. To imply that without ]

I remember getting on the elevator in hotel in Virgina going down to the lobby with him and wife. thought Bowden was getting on the bus with coach Scott and team. lost respect for him when he rode with highway patrolman to game. would have thought coach would go with team in away games. guess thats why I am a spector!

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Aaron Kelly doesn't belong in the same sentence at JD and CJ***


Jul 26, 2012, 12:32 PM [ in reply to Bowden said a lot of good things... ]



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There's something in these hills.


Re: Aaron Kelly doesn't belong in the same sentence at JD and CJ***


Jul 26, 2012, 12:46 PM

He's the career leader in catches in ACC history. Yes he does.

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If he would have just caught that TD pass against BC, how


Jul 26, 2012, 1:02 PM

different things might be. ;) Just kidding, AK is great!

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Well, we'd still have Bowden.


Jul 26, 2012, 2:15 PM

So there's that. ;)

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How many passes did you catch during your Clemson career?


Jul 26, 2012, 1:17 PM [ in reply to Aaron Kelly doesn't belong in the same sentence at JD and CJ*** ]

nm

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Switch out Aaron Kelly for Sammy Watkins on that team


Jul 26, 2012, 1:04 PM [ in reply to Bowden said a lot of good things... ]

and I'll bet CTB gets his ACC Championship!

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Re: Switch out Aaron Kelly for Sammy Watkins on that team


Jul 26, 2012, 1:14 PM

just imagine CJ, Jacoby and Sammy on the same team... speed kills!!

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But then do you take away 5-stars like CJ, Bowers, & Sapp?***


Jul 26, 2012, 2:31 PM [ in reply to Switch out Aaron Kelly for Sammy Watkins on that team ]



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Just switch him on one play...******


Jul 26, 2012, 7:44 PM [ in reply to Switch out Aaron Kelly for Sammy Watkins on that team ]



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That's true, but if you look at the rosters top to bottom...


Jul 26, 2012, 2:17 PM [ in reply to Bowden said a lot of good things... ]

now, Dabo seems to be building a team with deeper talent. Bowden did plenty of talent don't get me wrong, but not to the extent Dabo is about to have (and has right now already quite honestly).

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TB - "A Play(er) Away from Success" - all same message***


Aug 1, 2012, 7:03 AM [ in reply to Bowden said a lot of good things... ]



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But, Dabo did an end run and took Bowden's job.


Jul 26, 2012, 12:06 PM

signed
blue amandagale caddy

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Here Razz - let me save you the keystrokes . . .


Jul 26, 2012, 12:06 PM

A place like Clemson shouldn't have to offer on-the-job training . . .

And this is me - But UNC, Mich State, and others aren't as good as us - so it is OK for them . . .

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


Re: Here Razz - let me save you the keystrokes . . .


Jul 26, 2012, 12:24 PM

Very weak comments!! Venables, Morris, Caldwell, Elliot and most of the other assistants are hardly doing any on-the-job training at Clemson - they are studs in the biz!! What you idiots who never played football or never where involved in coaching a serious program need to realize is it's not all about the head coach and how many team's he has coached successfully in the past...if he can hire great assistants, recruit players in the top 20% and maintain excellent facilities then he will be in the Conference Championship and Nat'l Championship picture within 5 years....every time!! We are well on our way and it is only getting better each year! Dabo has given Clemson an EXCELLENT BRAND name again and it is only getting stronger and that ultimately is what you want any coach to build, with character and integrity.

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NICE. +1.***


Jul 26, 2012, 12:33 PM



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Couldn't agree more - I was poking fun at the never-ending


Jul 26, 2012, 1:16 PM [ in reply to Re: Here Razz - let me save you the keystrokes . . . ]

"other side of the story" that I personally don't subscribe to . . .

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience?


Jul 26, 2012, 1:31 PM [ in reply to Here Razz - let me save you the keystrokes . . . ]

At this point, all of Dabo's past, unecessary, beginner head coaching mistakes are all water over the the ### (like the 6-7 season despite Top 25 player-talent, all the losses to inferior teams, etc.) As the author of this article opines, Dabo has learned from his newbie mistakes. I agree, and I expect Clemson to get better as Dabo gains experience.

The top teams (Bama, LSU, OSU, et al) hire seasoned, successful coaches so that they can be successful quickly, rather than providing on-the-job training. It's not just my opinion.

At OKSt., Terry Don Phillips promoted Les Miles to be head coach, and then once Miles got up to speed at OKSt's expense, LSU hired Miles away from OkSt. Bad investment for OKSt. Good investment for LSU. I hope TDP's gamble works out better for Clemson.

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We did not have top 25 talent in 2010


Jul 26, 2012, 2:34 PM

Our only offensive weapons were Nuk and Ellington. nuk was a freshmen and teams started doubling him and Allen, who didn't play like he did in 2011. Ellington went down and that was pretty much all she wrote for our offense.

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Re: Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience?


Jul 26, 2012, 2:47 PM [ in reply to Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience? ]

Really?? I hate to say it, but your logic is easily contradicted....How about Lou Holtz at S. Car? He was as seasoned as a Montreal steak, home boy! How'd that work out??

Also, when LSU hired the almighty Nick Saban after years of head coaching experience, you know how he did in the five years he was there?? 8-4, 10-3, 8-5, Nat'l Champ, 9-3. Other than the one Nat'l Champ year, not so impressive. Even worse, you know how the great Nick Saban did at Mich State as their head coach?? 6-5, 6-6, 7-5, 6-6, 9-2.

He has succeeded at Alabama because of the facilities, the Brand, the assistant coaches, the recruiting and some to do with his knowledge.....which, by the way, is exactly what Swinney is doing at Clemson.

Now, sit down and shut up!

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You didn't answer my question. You cherry-picked bad cases.


Jul 26, 2012, 3:23 PM

Answer the question:
Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience?

It's OK. I'll answer the question. ZERO.

It's not like I cherry-picked the Top 25 AP final poll.

But you cherry-picked a few situations where good coaches took over weak programs and then you note that the good coach didn't instantly turn around the program. That's apples-to-oranges. Dabo took over a good program, loaded with Top 20 talent, and good facilities.

Proven guys like Urban Meyer and Saban went into decent programs (UF & Bama) and quickly turned them into top tier teams.

Spurrier had success at (formerly crappy) Duke, UF, & (formerly crappy).

I prefer to skip the cherry-picking, step back, and look at the broad statistics. That's what I posted, and they don't show improvement.

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Re: You didn't answer my question. You cherry-picked bad cases.


Jul 26, 2012, 3:32 PM

> Answer the question:
> Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no
> experience?
>
> It's OK. I'll answer the question. ZERO.
>
> It's not like I cherry-picked the Top 25 AP final
> poll.
>
> But you cherry-picked a few situations where good
> coaches took over weak programs and then you note
> that the good coach didn't instantly turn around the
> program. That's apples-to-oranges. Dabo took over a
> good program, loaded with Top 20 talent, and good
> facilities.
>
> Proven guys like Urban Meyer and Saban went into
> decent programs (UF & Bama) and quickly turned them
> into top tier teams.
>
> Spurrier had success at (formerly crappy) Duke, UF, &
> (formerly crappy).
>
> I prefer to skip the cherry-picking, step back, and
> look at the broad statistics. That's what I posted,
> and they don't show improvement.

so your saying CU was left in better shape with more talented players when Bowden was canned and Swinney took over than UF and BAMA were when Meyer and Saban took over??!!!!??? That might be the stupidest thing I;ve evere read on this site.

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I didn't say that at all. Read. Comprehend. THEN comment.***


Jul 26, 2012, 8:15 PM



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I count 10 teams


Jul 26, 2012, 5:31 PM [ in reply to Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience? ]

Ranked ahead of us in the final 2011 AP Top 25 who's current head coach had no HC experience prior to them being hired by their current school.

Oklahoma State
Oregon
Boise State
Wisconsin
TCU
Oklahoma
West Virginia
Houston
Georgia
Southern Miss

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Re: I count 10 teams


Jul 26, 2012, 6:45 PM

Bottom line folks...Razzmatazz is an idiot and has too much time on his hands, which is a dead giveaway for a Coot in disguise! Razz - you have no real clue or understanding of college football or coaching so you dig up stats and irrelevant information to try and support a weak statement. You probably never played football, never led or managed a group of more than 3 people, never coached a sport (even little league baseball), never asked out a smokin hot girl and none ever went out with you. So, you TRY to make yourself feel better by bashing Clemson because you are so envious of the tradition and recent progress...that's ok though, because it is good to see Coots like you on a Clemson website trying to bash our program...just shows that we continue to be the envy of every coots eye!

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Of course I meant HC or coordiinator experience. ZERO.


Jul 26, 2012, 8:24 PM [ in reply to I count 10 teams ]

How many were promoted from position-coach to head coach of a major D1 program? Zero. So Dabo learned from his on-the-job mistakes, just like the author of this article opines.

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Your cutting hairs razz...


Jul 26, 2012, 8:39 PM

Whether you're a position coach or a coordinator, coaching is coaching. Neither one teaches you how to be a head coach. Ask Will Muschamp, just for instance. He's admitted he's learning how to be a head coach. Fact is, EVERY head coach has had to learn how to be a head coach. Dabo's doing a great job so far, and he looks to be growing a monster.

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Yeah... Me & every D1 AD in the country cutting same hairs!***


Jul 26, 2012, 9:02 PM



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LOL. What are you even talking about?


Jul 26, 2012, 9:05 PM

By your response I'm guessing you didn't even open the post. Either way - poor, poor effort that refutes absolutely nothing.

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LOL. You don't understand. No time to explain it to you.***


Jul 26, 2012, 9:11 PM



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There's nothing to explain. You rarely make sense except to


Jul 26, 2012, 9:12 PM

yourself.

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Re: Your cutting hairs razz...


Jul 26, 2012, 11:13 PM [ in reply to Your cutting hairs razz... ]

You're not your. short for you are

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Keep moving the goal posts sport


Jul 26, 2012, 10:54 PM [ in reply to Of course I meant HC or coordiinator experience. ZERO. ]

You said nothing about Coordinator experience.


FYI, if your stance would be Clemson policy then Danny Ford wouldn't have been named Charlie Pell's replacement.

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Re: Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience?


Jul 26, 2012, 7:23 PM [ in reply to Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience? ]

Mike Shula, Joe Kines, Gerry Dinardo, Mike Archer, Jim Tressel, & Earle Bruce say "hello".

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"Dabo crushed my soul." --- Classof09


Re: Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience?


Jul 26, 2012, 8:14 PM [ in reply to Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience? ]

Just look at the records of those mentioned when they started out. They were no better than Dabos's starting record.

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Our talent was not that strong in 2010. I thought we already


Jul 26, 2012, 8:44 PM [ in reply to Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience? ]

discussed this? We some good players here and there, but we were obviously lacking in WR talent and experience, we had a QB who clearly regressed, and we had unimaginative play-calling to make up for the above. You aren't really sticking to your silly notion that our WR's are poorly coached, are you? Look, just because all indications are that you were wrong about Dabo, that's not a reason to try and extrapolate a bunch of nonsense out of nothing.

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So, You saying Dabo is the highest rated 'newbie' coach?


Jul 28, 2012, 4:39 PM [ in reply to Of the 21 teams ranked above CU, any HCs with no experience? ]

Of all the "new" coaches out there, Dabo is the highest rated (team rankings)? Sounds like we made a good hire.

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No need to knock Bowden....


Jul 26, 2012, 12:12 PM

No need to knock TB...he has a lot of class and know how. I know he had a hard time admitting when he was wrong or made a mistake (as most all of us, especially coaches, do) but he started this whole process of getting Clemson going in the correct direction...####, he recommended who his replacement should be and walked away when he felt like he had lost the confidence of the fan base and the program. I met TB three years ago at a FCA dinner in Knoxville, TN and I approached him after his excellent speech and thanked him for what he did for Clemson University...he said to me..."We got very close to getting Clemson to the next level but I think this next guy (Swinney) will be the one who can do it." That takes a lot of class and strength to say something like that. Bowden is still a huge fan of the program and progress at Clemson....make no mistake about it! All In!!

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Re: No need to knock Bowden....


Jul 26, 2012, 12:55 PM

Couldn't agree more. Sometimes to get a program where it needs to go you have to have multiple coaches that act as a stepping stone. I think Swinney is our guy but ill always have respect for TB

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oh Bowden...


Jul 26, 2012, 12:17 PM

"it just takes one player to make a difference,” Bowden said. “Like Sammy Watkins- take him off that team last season and maybe they only have seven or eight wins..."

Some things never change..


"We were one play away."

"Half the teams in the country lost last Saturday."

"If I had to play South Carolina every week I would still have a job."


Am I missing anything?

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Re: oh Bowden...


Jul 26, 2012, 12:20 PM

Here's a guy who had CJ Spiller and James Davis at the same time and did nothing. One player? Come on... Spiller > Sammy as of now.

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Re: oh Bowden...


Jul 26, 2012, 12:35 PM

Agreed. Seems he still is not acknowledging that. He had that "one" player in CJ Spiller. Not to mention Davis, Ford and Kelly were all great in their own right and on the same team

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Hey Coach Bowden, Thanks for hiring Dabo!***


Jul 26, 2012, 12:32 PM



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There's something in these hills.


Tommy will never be as good a head coach as Dabo.


Jul 26, 2012, 1:14 PM

Tommy is a good guy and left Clemson in better shape than he found it and I am grateful for that.

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Bowden won 66% in his last 3 yrs, Dabo won 61% in 1st 3 yrs.


Jul 26, 2012, 2:06 PM

Although Dabo won the weaskest ACC in at least a decade (according to Sagarin's conference rankings below) statistically I don't see much improvement from Bowden, though it kinda feels like Dabo has Clemson on an upswing with the recruiting, Morris, & Venables.

AP final poll rank.
2011: #22
2010: unranked
2009: #24
2008: unranked (Bowden->Dabo transition)
2007: #21
2006: unranked
2005: #21

Versus non-conference AP Top 25 final poll:
Bowden: 1-8.
Dabo: 0-5.
(Ford: 5-7.)

ACC's conference SOS Sagarin rankings:
2011: 7
2010: 4
2009: 4
2008: 3 TB->DS transition.
2007: 5
2006: 5
2005: 4
2004: 2
2003: 1
2002: 1
2001: 4

Rivals recruiting class rank:
2012: #14
2011: #8
2010: #19
2009: #37 TB -> DS transition class
2008: #12
2007: #16
2006: #16
2005: #17

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At this point, anyone who can't see that Dabo has Clemson


Jul 26, 2012, 2:19 PM

moving in the right direction (and fast I might add) just doesn't want to see it.

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The stats are the stats. It's not what I "want to see".


Jul 26, 2012, 2:56 PM

I don't know how people like you think you know what I "want to see". I'll tell you what I want to see. (And trust me, I know better about what I want to see than you do.) I want to see Clemson return to being a nationally prominent Top 10 team that's in in the mix for a national title (like when I attended Clemson).

But at a minimum I'd like to see Clemson be a team that rarely loses to teams with inferior talent, wins more often than not against teams with comparable talent, beats its in-state rival more often than not, and at least ocassionally upsets teams with superior talent. That hasn't been the case.

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But your stats are incomplete.


Jul 26, 2012, 4:00 PM

You downplay Dabo willing the ACC last year because it was weak. But last year was also the first time Clemson EVER beat three consecutive top 25 teams. Clemson BLASTED a top five team in the ACCCG.

Dabo has coached three years and won two ACC division titles and one conference title. That's more than TB ever did.

Dabo was name the Boddy Dodd National coach of the year.

Dabo has been recognized for graduating his players at a very high level.

I don't care what any ranking says, Only one time in my memory has Clemson ever recruited better than right now, and that was in the very early 80's.

You're right, I don't know what you want to see. But if you can't see the program is moving in a very positive direction under Dabo then something is wrong with you.

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Re: But your stats are incomplete.


Jul 26, 2012, 8:57 PM

You downplay Dabo willing the ACC last year because it was weak.
Yes, the Sagarin data shows that it was the weakest ACC in at least a decade, so it's hard to say that Bowden wouldn't have won such a weak ACC or that Clemson was so much better in 2011 than during Bowden's tenure.

But last year was also the first time Clemson EVER beat three consecutive top 25 teams. Clemson BLASTED a top five team in the ACCCG.
Those three "ranked" teams were (1) Auburn, which finished 8-5 (4-4) and UNRANKED, (2) FSU which was without its starting QB, CB, and FIVE WRs and which finished #22, and (3) VT, which finished #21. Aside from beating 2 ACC teams that finished lowly-ranked, when Clemson played decent teams outside the ACC, Clemson got humiliated by SCar (#9 final AP poll) and WVU (#17 in final AP poll). So yeah... That's the full picture. Clemson finished ranked #22, which seems about right and doesn't seem much different than Bowden except that he used to own SCar.

Dabo has coached three years and won two ACC division titles and one conference title. That's more than TB ever did.Granted. Not sure TB wouldn't have done the same. The AP Poll voters and I don't see much difference.

Dabo was name the Boddy Dodd National coach of the year.
I wanted Bowden fired sooner, but Bowden was:
1× C-USA Coach of the Year (1998)
2× ACC Coach of the Year (1999, 2003)
1× FCA Football Coach of the Year (2006)

Dabo has been recognized for graduating his players at a very high level.
Tommy Bowden did well too, and in Tommy's last season, his team set the record for GPA-- a record wich Dabo hasn't topped it yet.

I don't care what any ranking says, Only one time in my memory has Clemson ever recruited better than right now, and that was in the very early 80's.
Yes, Dabo and crew are good recruiters. I've always said that. But the recruiting class rankings are very similar to Bowden's latter years, with a statistically insignificant edge going to Dabo. (See my other post where I detail them.)

You're right, I don't know what you want to see. But if you can't see the program is moving in a very positive direction under Dabo then something is wrong with you.
If you had read my original post you'd have noticed that I wrote that "it kinda feels like Dabo has Clemson on an upswing with the recruiting, Morris, & Venables".

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LMAO. Here we go. Let the overANALyses begin...


Jul 26, 2012, 9:01 PM

Razz, you never could see the forest through the trees.

It's real simple - it's IRREFUTABLE that Dabo has accomplished more in 3 years than Bowden did in 9.

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Stats are for losers = Razzmatazz


Jul 26, 2012, 4:10 PM [ in reply to The stats are the stats. It's not what I "want to see". ]

Give it up dude. Even the most dilusional Dabo haters agree that Clemson is on the rise and better off now than 3 years ago.

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What we "want to see".


Jul 26, 2012, 7:27 PM [ in reply to The stats are the stats. It's not what I "want to see". ]

You pulling for another team. If you can't see any positives in the direction this program is headed in, turn in your tiger paw.

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"Dabo crushed my soul." --- Classof09


His [b]####[/b]yses are comical.***


Jul 26, 2012, 8:53 PM



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It's sad that you can't respond in a civilized adult manner.


Jul 26, 2012, 9:09 PM

I thought you said you were going to stop reading my posts because they're too stupid and I'm too stupid, simple-minded, etc. I wish you'd keep your word because you're obviously not capable of having a civilized, adult dicussion.

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In order to do that...


Jul 26, 2012, 9:13 PM

one has to be an adult.

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Re: In order to do that...


Jul 26, 2012, 9:22 PM

Yes, I've long suspected that Stanley Tiger is an elementary school or junior high school kid because his comments are extremely puerile and there's no graduation year in his profile.

I graduated Clemson back in '84 during Clemson's golden years and want to see Clemson return to national prominence.

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Waaaa! That's so uncilvilized and immature!


Jul 26, 2012, 9:25 PM

You're a funny guy razz. Need a kleenex while you're sitting atop your high horse?

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A) I NEVER said I wasn't going to read your posts, B) NEVER


Jul 26, 2012, 9:20 PM [ in reply to It's sad that you can't respond in a civilized adult manner. ]

called you stupid, and C) I NEVER said your posts were stupid.

You most certainly do overANALize things though, and you have a terrible time seeing the forest through the trees. Sorry if the truth hurts man, but being overly sensitive and posting on sports message boards may not be a good combination.

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Re: A) I NEVER said I wasn't going to read your posts, B) NEVER


Jul 26, 2012, 9:21 PM

Are yall married ?

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Return to being a Top 10 team?


Jul 26, 2012, 11:55 PM [ in reply to The stats are the stats. It's not what I "want to see". ]

You act like we lived in the Top 10 in the 1980's when the facts are we didn't. 3 out of the 10 years that make up the 1980's we finished in the Top 10.

AP poll final ranking by season

1980 - NR
1981 - 1
1982 - 8
1983 - 11
1984 - NR
1985 - NR
1986 - 17
1987 - 12
1988 - 9
1989 - 12

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No. I wrote "like when I attended Clemson." I'm an '84 grad


Jul 27, 2012, 2:31 AM

I didn't say that "we lived in the Top 10 during the 1980's". You made up those words and tried to shove them in my mouth.

I wrote:
"I want to see Clemson return to being a nationally prominent Top 10 team that's in in the mix for a national title (like when I attended Clemson)."

True statement. That's just how I feel. Sorry if that bothers you or if you have lower goals for Clemson.

Heck I wish we even had the kind of rankings that we had in the 1980's.

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Tommy would have figured some way to blow the ACC title


Jul 26, 2012, 2:21 PM [ in reply to Bowden won 66% in his last 3 yrs, Dabo won 61% in 1st 3 yrs. ]

last year. The story of his tenure.

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On a whole it feels like we win more meaningful victories


Jul 26, 2012, 2:38 PM [ in reply to Bowden won 66% in his last 3 yrs, Dabo won 61% in 1st 3 yrs. ]

with Dabo rather then TB. As good/bad as the ACC has been under Dabo and Bowden the fact remains that Bowden always seemed unable to win the big game that got us over the hump in the ACC. An ACC title berth always seemed like a dream that we couldn't reach under Bowden. Now it's no longer a dream but an expectation each and every year.

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LOL. Let's see how Dabo is doing in years 7, 8 and 9.


Jul 26, 2012, 8:52 PM [ in reply to Bowden won 66% in his last 3 yrs, Dabo won 61% in 1st 3 yrs. ]

Then you can try again.

It is funny though how you continue to cling to recruiting rankings like they're even remotely an exact science. Newflash: It's been proven time and time again, on an individual basis they're inaccurate a lot more than they're accurate. I'm surprised you didn't show the averages out to the 3rd decimal place or something. LOL.

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These comparisons got to stop. Dabo ain't Miles or Saban.


Jul 26, 2012, 2:24 PM

I hate comparing Dabo to anyone. I prefer to dislike him on his own merit. But if we must continue to consul ourselves with by comparing him to other coaches, so be it.

1) Michigan State went 14-31 in the four seasons prior to Saban, including an 0-11 campaign. (If you are wondering, LSU was 26-20 before Saban and 26-12 his first three season.)

2) Oklahoma State went 21-24 in four years before hiring Les Miles.

3) The last of four years of #### Crum, UNC went 22-21-2.

4) Lastly, in the four seasons before the Old Ball Sack took the job at Duke, the Blue Devils went 14-31.

In Tommy's final 3.5 seasons at Clemson, the Tigers went 28-16. As you can see, there is a huge difference between what Dabo inherited at Clemson and what the other coaches faced.

A better comparison might be what these previously mentioned coaches inherited from their current programs and how they performed in their first four seasons.

1) At Texas, 30-18-1 in four years prior to Mac Brown. Brown was 38-10 in his first four season at Texas.

2) South Carolina went 25-22 under Lou his last four years. Spurrier was a modest improvement at 28-22 his first four seasons.

The next two coaches are related which makes for an interesting comparison. Saban built LSU back into a power and Miles has kept it there.

3) LSU went 40-12 Saban's last four seasons. Miles rode the momentum to a 42-11 record his first four years.

4) Alabama's four year record before Saban was 25-24. Saban's first three years the Tide went 43-10.

As you can see, each coach made at least some kind of improvement. Even Les Miles, who had the bar set really really high, improved on what Saban accomplished. In Dabo's case, based purely on wins and losses, he has not improved. He winning percentage is lower at 60.4% than Tommy's 64%. The difference amounts to Dabo's post season record of 2-4, which some of you seem happy about. Not to mention a 1-3 record against South Carolina.

To say that Dabo is better than Tommy Bowden is a joke. Tommy wasn't that good anyway.

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I'll take Dabo over Miles any day of the week. Now Saban....


Jul 26, 2012, 2:32 PM

is a different story, he's a legend.

I'm not even saying Miles is a bad coach either. Miles is a very good coach actually.

Dabo beats out Miles in things other than X's and O's though, and Miles isn't the best X's and O's coach in the world either. When it comes to building up a program that was already in at least decent shape, Dabo is starting to show he's the man for that. When it comes to recruiting, managing staff, players, etc. the I'll take Dabo any day of the week. When it comes to wheeling and dealing and just getting things done, whether it's on the football field or out in the community representing Clemson in a 1st class manner, I'll take Dabo.

... and when it comes to his love and dedication to his program and University, I'll take Dabo any day of the week.

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Re: I'll take Dabo over Miles any day of the week. Now Saban....


Jul 26, 2012, 2:49 PM

Not so sure on that last line.

Miles has had opportunities to move on from LSU. He's had the chance to go back to his big time alma mater, and he's turned it down. I can say wih 99.9% confidence that Miles will be at LSU until he's fired or he retires.

Would Dabo turn down Alabama if they came calling? I'd like to think so, but I can't say with the same level of confidence that I could about Miles.

Not trying to knock Dabo here. I'm just saying that Miles has shown a level of dedication to LSU that is hard to top.

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That's a good ponit... Dabo just wears it on his sleeve


Jul 26, 2012, 3:04 PM

more though, which I personally like. Some may see it as a little over the top, but I think that's one reason we love Dabo so much (well, most of us at least).

It's like he feels the same way we do about Clemson Football. That's how it comes across. Dabo is a rare breed as far as Head Coaches in CFB, IMO. I really hope we continue to make even bigger steps under him and eventually get that prize (national title). I definitely think we can sooner than later.

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oops - point****


Jul 26, 2012, 3:04 PM



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Re: These comparisons got to stop. Dabo ain't Miles or Saban.


Jul 26, 2012, 3:04 PM [ in reply to These comparisons got to stop. Dabo ain't Miles or Saban. ]

I believe Tommy Bowden is the one saying Dabo is better than Tommy Bowden.

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Are you kidding me right now?


Jul 26, 2012, 7:06 PM [ in reply to These comparisons got to stop. Dabo ain't Miles or Saban. ]

Is it far to early to declare Dabo the modern day John Heisman? Yes, but you cannot deny this program is rapidly heading in the right direction under Dabo. Of course he has made some glaring mistakes - but my God he has never done this before - and when he makes mistakes, he fixes them - i.e. the Steele hire. He has now put together an impressive staff than can clearly recruit like its going out of style. Now if we can go ahead and get this coot losing streak corrected (and I believe we will in short order) then its on!

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Re: These comparisons got to stop. Dabo ain't Miles or Saban.


Jul 31, 2012, 11:59 PM [ in reply to These comparisons got to stop. Dabo ain't Miles or Saban. ]

i'm sorry you don't see the qualities that dabo brings to the table. he has elevated the program and hopefully this will be more evident this year. I understand that dabo was a no namer when he was hired. he has captured the clemson scene and exceeded expectations. he has qualities that are helping clemsonyy to rise in the very competitive world of college football. Whenever you hire a coach with no head coaching experience, you are going to get a guy who is learning on the job. however, you sometimes get a guy who runs scared and is passionate. i'd say with no proof that he is doing as well as sabin and miles in their first head jobs. Cut some slack.

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Now that Bowden admits that Dabo is the better head coach


Jul 26, 2012, 3:38 PM

he can't resist pointing out that HE was the one to recommend Dabo as interim head coach. Just shut up already, Tammy.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Bowden was a snob and a loser***


Jul 26, 2012, 6:04 PM



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Bowden bashing days should be long over. He moved our


Jul 26, 2012, 9:43 PM

program forward and folks should have nothing but respect for him at this point. He wasn't the coach to take us to the next level, but he moved us forward with facilities, etc... Sure, all of us were frustrated with him at one (or many) points along the road, but when you look at his total body of work at Clemson he was a net gain for our program. And dont forget, he is responsible for 1) hiring Dabo, 2) pushing Dabo to be the interim HC, and 3) agreeing to resign midseson so Dabo could have an "audition." How folks can continue to bash the man is beyond me.

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I'm with you. I never bashed Bowden. The man did his best,


Jul 26, 2012, 9:51 PM

had us playing pretty well, gave it his all, represented the university with dignity, recruited solid student-athletes and generally kept the program free from scandal. I think the criticism that he may have been loyal to a fault with some of his staff could have merit, but that's hardly something to hate on him for now. If I saw him around town I would shake the man's hand and say thanks.

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null


b/c bashing is fun, like listening to gossip tidbits***


Aug 1, 2012, 7:06 AM [ in reply to Bowden bashing days should be long over. He moved our ]



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Request for TigerNet to ban "Razzmataz"...any 2nd's, 3rd's..


Jul 26, 2012, 10:21 PM

The guy is a looser and gets off on trying to bash anything positive at Clemson. I don't wear rose colored glasses but I do know when I smell a skunk and Razz is grade-A Pepe le Pue!! Anyone 2nd or 3rd the motion??? Back to boys town for you, Razz!

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2nd! Or just ignore my opinions if they hurt your feelings.


Jul 27, 2012, 1:59 AM

Above I posted some stats showing the statistical similarities of Swinney and Bowden. That's "bashing"? Wow!

Above I posted that, "it kinda feels like Dabo has Clemson on an upswing with the recruiting, Morris, & Venables."
That's bashing? Wow!

Here are my posts on the last 3 T-Net articles. Bashing?
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12515286#12515286

http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12515658

http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12509309#12509309

In fact, go look at my original posts (not my defending retorts) for the last X articles and tell me what percentage you'd consider "negative". 10%? How horrible of me!

Unless I get on here and praise EVERYTHING to high heaven, intolerant pumpers get upset and sling childish insults. That never happens to me on any other sports blog site. But heaven forbid there should ever be any fact-backed critiques or differing opinions on T-Net!

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I don't believe that is the problem people have with you


Jul 27, 2012, 7:30 PM

I was fine with your earlier post because you put up interesting stats and also acknowledged that Clemson is moving in the right direction which is the main issue I've ever had with your posts. However many take offense to some of the tone in your stance. It comes across like:

"Don't get excited about the positive things going on because we're still right around where we were with Bowden"

This is true to a point. We still win big games then had head scratchers the very next week. We still have a toughness issue at times against weaker competition. Clemson, for now, if still considered one of the biggest Jekyell and Hyde teams in america.

However, I and most agree that Clemson could and maybe should have gone for a more experience HC when they hired Dabo but they didn't and Dabo is what we have and he is doing a pretty good job for a guy with no prior HC experience. Also the fact that he won the ACC is a HUGE deal.

Is the ACC weak, yes, but we didn't beat the scrubs of the ACC to win it we played a brutal schedule were the only half decent ACC team we avoided was Miami. This made the championship a bit more validated. Also despite the ACC being weak winning the championship on National TV really does appeal to HS student and players as they want to go to a team that is winning championships.

These are just my thoughts on your treatment here. I actually enjoy seeing some of the stats that you put up and they are informative and show a dedication to figuring out the truth.

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problem is,razz, thats what you are known for - razzing .


Jul 28, 2012, 7:27 PM [ in reply to 2nd! Or just ignore my opinions if they hurt your feelings. ]

i have seen your posts all over the place, tigernet,charlotte observer,etc. and its all the same old song and dance.get some new material,please.

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Hurt our feelings ??? You give yourself WAY too much credit


Aug 1, 2012, 7:14 AM [ in reply to 2nd! Or just ignore my opinions if they hurt your feelings. ]

for a 12 year old.

Just beyond completely sick of your same crap over and over and over.

Glass half empty - in your case glass 3/4 empty, I have stats brow beating, etc.

But I'm sure you get off on all the attention you get.

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


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