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Ring of Honor [32958]
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Renaming Tillman Hall sounds plain silly.
Feb 11, 2015, 5:25 PM
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Ought to rename the University... didn't TG Clemson, not to mention JCC, have slaves?
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CU Medallion [50635]
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they should rename the state***
Feb 11, 2015, 5:30 PM
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All-In [28802]
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Tillman wasn't just a run of the mill southern racist, tho
Feb 11, 2015, 5:31 PM
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I'm not sure renaming the building is what we should do, but it's somewhat galling for southerners who want to move past the history of racism we have to live with, and I can imagine black people feeling like the university didn't care how they felt about it.
I'm also not sure at what point our judgments about the racism/ racist deeds of people in the southern past should make us judge their entire lives as unworthy of honor, versus remembering them for both the good things they did and the bad things they did and using their ambiguity as an opportunity to teach. For instance, John C. Calhoun was probably the most prominent defender and theorist of the southern system of slavery, but he also was a brilliant mind and one of the foremost South Carolinian statesmen. Which way should the scales tip on him?
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Heisman Winner [119684]
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Its not "Galling" for me....
Feb 11, 2015, 5:38 PM
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How bout the rest of you Southerners?
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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It takes a lot to gall me.
Feb 11, 2015, 6:03 PM
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I've got a rash over the PC crowd wanting to change something then moving on to change something else.
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110%er [7013]
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It was a bunch of revisionist whitewashers of history who
Feb 13, 2015, 8:56 AM
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changed the name of Main Hall to Tillman Hall because they feared that this lynching loving racist SOB was falling into the dustbin of history. Changing the name back to Main Hall corrects a galling statement made by the sheet wearers of yesteryear.
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Heisman Winner [119684]
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CU Medallion [50635]
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because she took small arms fire in a helicopter***
Feb 11, 2015, 5:41 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93650]
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Who is trying to move past the history of racism?
Feb 11, 2015, 5:59 PM
[ in reply to Tillman wasn't just a run of the mill southern racist, tho ] |
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Theses people are just trying to punish white for something of which we are innocent. What good does it do to change a name? It's not as if passing Tillman makes me want to go out and enslave a black person.
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Legend [18018]
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as silly as most symbolic gestures usually are...
Feb 11, 2015, 5:48 PM
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I don't know enough about Tillman to really care about this issue, but isn't the hatred of him coming from the fact he was more 'active' in persecuting (and murder?) of black peoples? (as Slavery was outlawed when he was in office?)
His role in setting up and creating Clemson University should be acknowledged but to what symbolic means should that role be acknowledged?
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All-In [40656]
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You're right
Feb 12, 2015, 8:40 AM
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We should rename the school. Clemson and Tillman University: Back to the Gallows Part 2: A New South
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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How about naming it Stonewall Hall?***
Feb 11, 2015, 6:13 PM
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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very silly
Feb 11, 2015, 7:20 PM
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stupid even
I get so tired of hearing these things
It is History folks, one cannot change it.
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All-TigerNet [12791]
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Wilkins and the BOT have made an incredibly stupid move....
Feb 11, 2015, 8:08 PM
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The whitest man I've ever met, and a career politcial figure with no earned degree from the University, issues a press release telling the nation that Clemson will not even consider a discussion of changing the name of a building. The entire press release comes across as elitist and basically says to minorities, "Here, let me tell you folks how it is."
But the real kicker is Wilkins stating a lie in writing that "Clemson is a strong, diverse University in which all of us can be proud." Hey ########, if you're going to celebrate and promote Clemson's Top 20 ranking from US News, then you must also acknowledge US News ranking of Clemson on diversity. You can't have it both ways.
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/campus-ethnic-diversity/page+10
Listen, I have no opinion on the Tillman name. I don't know his family. I personally could care less about names on buildings, roads, or anything else, but many, many others do. It was a very poor way for Wilkins and the BOT to handle this issue. It will reflect poorly on Clemson in the future, and will be used against the University by others with their own agendas. As politicians predictably do, Wilkins has written a press release that greatly pleases his constituents, i.e. Clemson Alumni, donors, and fans. I'm betting, however, minorities, the media, and the nation at whole will not receive his message in the same light.
Contrary to the race relation experts on the Mange, Wilkins press release is not going to put an end to the issue. He might as well have thrown 1,000 gallons of napalm on this problem. Just wait and see, it's only just beginning.
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Orange Blooded [3924]
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I wonder how that index compares to the diversity of our
Feb 11, 2015, 10:24 PM
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state? I would expect that states with more diversity would likely have more diversity in their schools.
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Oculus Spirit [83070]
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State of SC 28% black. Clemson student body 6%.***
Feb 12, 2015, 6:17 AM
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Legend [17449]
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What's SC's Tate percentages?
Feb 12, 2015, 7:29 AM
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I'm sure Clemson University admissions filters all of the applicants by race and says, "Here are the top black applicants in this class. Let's take the number that amounts to 6% of all we can take this year and let 'em in." Just my guess.
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Heisman Winner [135806]
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14% graduate in 4 years***
Feb 12, 2015, 9:22 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83070]
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Hall of Famer [24471]
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Agree.
Feb 11, 2015, 11:31 PM
[ in reply to Wilkins and the BOT have made an incredibly stupid move.... ] |
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From what little I know of this story I cant help but wonder: will people never learn when, philosophically right or wrong, they are on the wrong end of a story and its time to cut losses and move on? We can debate the name of Tillman Hall all day, but pragmatically if we change it no one will remember in 90 days, and if we dont we might be on the Nightly News in 90 days. What we can guarantee is that those wanting it changed wont go away, and their next move might a lot worse than a name on a building.
Stories dont just go away. A few are worth fighting for. For all the others, some people just can seem to learn. Wilkins is pulling a Goodell on this one, I think. A press release is not the answer.
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All-In [28802]
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They've actually made a number of other demands
Feb 12, 2015, 5:02 PM
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They range from the harmless and stupid to the ridiculous and potentially completely disruptive. I don't think you give in because you want to stay out of the news, but I do think that there's some substance to idea that Tillman's name needs to come off of Tillman Hall, and a minor gesture like that might defuse some of the other demands.
It's also probably not true that Clemson is just doing this press-release and nothing more.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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All-In [28802]
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Your response is way overblown
Feb 12, 2015, 4:59 PM
[ in reply to Wilkins and the BOT have made an incredibly stupid move.... ] |
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Even if I think I agree in principle, the press-release isn't stupid and Wilkins isn't some empty-suit panderer. He at least acknowledges that Tillman- and many other southern figures of the past- was problematic, but that those problems can be used to educate on southern history as we try to move forward as a more integrated society.
As for the diversity issue- far more harm has been done to universities over the last 30 years in response to calls for diversity than good. It's far more important that historically oppressed people who are now underrepresented at more selective schools be given opportunities earlier in life that will eventually enable more of them to be admitted to Clemson than it is to simply admit them without merit to make ourselves feel better about some abstract measure of "diversity." Furthermore, racial diversity does little to ensure that college campuses have a truly diverse environment, since, unless you're a racist, there is nothing meaningful and essential about a person's skin color. And, if Clemson wants to attract more racial diversity without giving large admissions advantages to racial minorities, it's going to have to look out of state because black people in SC are disproportionately poor.
So I agree that Wilkins's press release won't put an end to the issue. One reason I was fine with changing the name of the building is that it would give the protesters a symbolic, but small, victory which would allow the administration a little more room to reject some of the more harmful demands being made. But now the protesters will just put an even greater focus those policies.
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Heisman Winner [135566]
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I'm all for renaming Tillman Hall.
Feb 11, 2015, 9:36 PM
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To RH Tig Hall. As a firm believer in equality, it is my aim to enslave ALL of mankind with no regard whatsoever to race, creed, gender, or collegiate football team affiliation.
Because, warlord.
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Heisman Winner [105525]
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this is a cause I can get behind
Feb 12, 2015, 7:46 AM
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as long as there are hot-assed ladies in front.
because doggystyle
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Oculus Spirit [81048]
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The last pope was a Nazi when he was younger
Feb 12, 2015, 12:02 PM
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Never heard anyone wanting to rename popes.
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Legend [17753]
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Keep 'Tillman' hall, name the clock tower 'Gantt'. kapow.***
Feb 12, 2015, 12:03 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81048]
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How long will renaming Tillman take to mean something?
Feb 12, 2015, 11:03 PM
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The Triborough Bridge in New York thats ben around for about 80+ years, was renamed the RFK bridge in 2008. I would bet you can't find one New Yorker going to Laguardia who calls it the RFK Bridge.
The Cooper River Bridge in CHS was named the Ravenel bridge in 2005 when it opened. I've only ever heard people from Ohio call it that.
If I'm alive 40 years from now, Tillman Hall will still be Tillman hall..whatever its been changed to.
The name change is pointless and meaningless.
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