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Heisman Winner [119597]
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FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 7:02 AM
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The current regime cannot attract great players, never will. And pullease, don’t tell me how good next year’s recruits are....
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All-TigerNet [14452]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 7:16 AM
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so, next year dont count huh. you cant get great recruits till you get a great recruit. brownell has come in second a few times. for what its worth it is a lot harder to recruit when you actually play by the rules, i.e. zion and others. hopefully getting hall and prosper will help attract other great players. all that being said next year is tourney or bust for coach.
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CU Medallion [67718]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 7:43 AM
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looked like the feds might start something to clean it up. a few fired. A few in jail. Yet Kansas and Louisville basically skate and are still doing what they did. And not another peep that makes you think any further action will be taken. And the NCAA? We worthless as usual.
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Orange Blooded [3950]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 7:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting! ] |
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Come on now. Just because duke gets these 5* players does not mean they’re cheating. We get all these 5* in football and I can’t stand when people say we cheat. Our basketball program just isn’t on the duke level just as they’re football isn’t on our level. Recruits want to win
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All-TigerNet [14452]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 7:57 AM
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LOL IF YOU DONT THINK DUKE CHEATED TO GET ZION THEN MAYBE I CAN INTEREST YOU IN SOME NICE PROPERTY I HAVE. NEVER SAID THEY CHEAT TO GET EVERY PLAYER THEY SIGN
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 8:12 AM
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LOL IF YOU DONT THINK CLEMSON CHEATED TO TRY TO GET ZION THEN MAYBE I CAN INTEREST YOU IN SOME NICE PROPERTY I HAVE.
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All-TigerNet [14452]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 8:24 AM
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SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Orange Blooded [3367]
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110%er [6582]
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we actually didnt play by the rules either for Zion
Feb 11, 2020, 8:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting! ] |
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our assistant admitted to trying to cheat, but was unsuccessful swaying Zion even by cheating.
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110%er [6582]
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However, I get what you are saying
Feb 11, 2020, 8:05 AM
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and I totally believe BB did not have any knowledge of this occurring, as the assistant also admitted to sneaking around BBs back. I just thought I would point out one of the examples used, we technically werent clean either.
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CU Medallion [64519]
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Wait...what ?!?!?!***
Feb 11, 2020, 11:23 AM
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All-Conference [404]
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Freshman [-100]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 8:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting! ] |
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"for what its worth it is a lot harder to recruit when you actually play by the rules, i.e. zion and others"
You sound like a SCar fan talking about Clemson football. Nobody "plays by the rules"
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110%er [6582]
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recruiting and players jumping ship
Feb 11, 2020, 7:59 AM
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transfers
1. Cory Stanton- after freshman year
2. TJ Sapp- after sophomore year
3. Devin Coleman- after redshirt sophomore year
4. Bernard Sullivan- after sophomore year
5. Adonis Filer- after sophomore year
6. Austin Ajukwa- after junior year
7. Patrick Rooks- after redshirt freshman year
8. Ty Hudson- after redshirt sophomore year
9. Scott Spencer-after sophomore year
10. Anthony Oliver- after redshirt freshman year
11. Javan White- graduate transfer
12. Malik William - after sophomore yr
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CU Medallion [67718]
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Re: recruiting and players jumping ship
Feb 11, 2020, 8:03 AM
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Not sure how many years this covers but its the norm these days for lots of transfers. we probably have also gotten almost that many too. In fact production wise I'd say we are ahead of the game given what we got versus lost
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110%er [6582]
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I agree, but its hard to build depth and continuity
Feb 11, 2020, 8:12 AM
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when you have turnover of transfers along with your graduation turnover. Weve gotten a lot of our transfers out of necessity. This leads to unbalanced classes, which is one reason we are in the spot we are in this year with all of the youth. I do agree we have gotten some good transfers in many case, and Im not saying its a problem unique to us, but it is a problem.
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CU Medallion [67718]
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Re: I agree, but its hard to build depth and continuity
Feb 11, 2020, 8:18 AM
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I dont disagree. It is just a thing everyone seems to go through these days and not just us. I'm not sure why it has become so pervasive. Our best thing would probably get the best we can and hope we can keep and develop them for 4 years. If we can deal with it less it probably helps us versus power schools who will get one or two year guys who leave for pro ball.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: recruiting and players jumping ship
Feb 11, 2020, 9:16 AM
[ in reply to recruiting and players jumping ship ] |
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transfers
1. Cory Stanton- after freshman year
2. TJ Sapp- after sophomore year
3. Devin Coleman- after redshirt sophomore year
4. Bernard Sullivan- after sophomore year
5. Adonis Filer- after sophomore year
6. Austin Ajukwa- after junior year
7. Patrick Rooks- after redshirt freshman year
8. Ty Hudson- after redshirt sophomore year
9. Scott Spencer-after sophomore year
10. Anthony Oliver- after redshirt freshman year
11. Javan White- graduate transfer
12. Malik William - after sophomore yr
Some very dumb posts regarding basketball these last few days. Transfers are normal with basketball. The only kind of weird transfer was Javan White.
Every single one of these transfers were due to lack of playing time. None of these players went on to be anything more than an average player for the school they transferred to.
But keep finding BS reasons to bash Brownell
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110%er [6582]
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did you even read the post thread completely????
Feb 11, 2020, 9:49 AM
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you are so caught up in wanting to bash someone who says anything the least bit critical you must have failed to read the entire thread.
IF YOU HAD CONTINUED READING, you would have seen the following followup statement "I do agree we have gotten some good transfers in many case, and Im not saying its a problem unique to us, but it is a problem."
I acknowledge this isnt a problem unique to us, I agree that we have gotten some good transfers in return. I just point out, that this has led to some issues with some unbalanced classes and depth issues. Just because a lot of schools have the same problem with transfers doesnt mean its not a problem, just mean its a wide spread problem. I would much rather have a 3 or 4 yr "avg" guy being a bench contributor to rely on than a freshmen. I would guarantee you BB and most coaches would also agree, unless you are talking about bringing in a stud freshmen, an upperclassmen who you have groomed for 3-4 yrs is always preferable even if they are only avg.
Im actually split when it comes to Brownell. I like the guy and think he is a decent coach that is very knowledgeable. I feel like his recruiting has picked up and we should see some improvement. If he could only put a few classes back to back to back and get some consistency I feel he can right the ship. However, I do realize at some point there has to be a cut off point in which you say enough is enough, youve had enough time. I do not feel that is after this season, as bringing him back was a 2 year deal in my book. I feel like next year he will need to make the NCAA or show drastic improvement or I will have no problem with him being shown the door.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: did you even read the post thread completely????
Feb 11, 2020, 10:21 AM
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Wow you sound angry! I didn't mean to offend, and I apologize for not reading the ENTIRE thread before commenting.
I've just read on here a million times with people complaining about all the transfers. If they are transferring because they don't get enough playing time, then who cares?
There would be a problem if we had studs leaving. Since we are not, then it's a non issue
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: did you even read the post thread completely????
Feb 11, 2020, 11:13 AM
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Everyone knows that Brownell is not an elite recruiter.
at the beginning of his tenure, we had the worst facilities, lowest spending, and worst tradition of any team in the ACC.
Unfortunately with these 3 facts mentioned above, an average recruiter is not going to be able to recruit good players.
Now that we have new facilities, we are recruiting much better. Do you all think this is a coincidence?
Brownell will have his 2 best classes back to back. We have some young transfers that should be good.
It took a while to get here, but I really think that we will be a tourney team next year and hopefully for the next few years.
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110%er [6582]
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here is something we can agree on
Dec 23, 2011, 3:20 PM
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all good points.I really do hope he succeeds cause I do honestly like the guy. I feel like if he can get a little momentum and get some traction he can get things going in the right direction and succeed. The hard question is how much longer does he get, I think next year will be the year to put up or shut up.
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Legend [19567]
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110%er [6582]
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but it is an issue, you lose continuity, quality depth,
Feb 11, 2020, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: did you even read the post thread completely???? ] |
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class balance, team chemistry, when you are constantly introducing new faces or bringing in a transfer for a single season or 2. "Studs" get injured or sometimes get in foul trouble or need a breather and it is important for you to have a quality bench player to put in to steal some minutes with as little of drop off as possible. This is where the transfers hurt.
Again, not saying this is unique to us or even criticizing BB for the transfers we have had. Last time I checked we are slightly above avg in # of transfers but nothing too out of the norm. But it is something that shouldnt just be dismissed. When you are having recruiting struggles, keeping guys in your program and developing talent becomes even more important.
But anyway moving on, I am not angry and we are all good. I just get frustrated when some take a post without even reading the whole thing and negatively attack it as a dumb post or claiming it automatically as a bash without discussion just cause you offer a critique of the program. I apologize as well for going a bit overboard on you. I do agree with you that there are a lot of senseless attacks on the board that go overboard or are ignorance on display.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: but it is an issue, you lose continuity, quality depth,
Feb 11, 2020, 1:14 PM
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class balance, team chemistry, when you are constantly introducing new faces or bringing in a transfer for a single season or 2. "Studs" get injured or sometimes get in foul trouble or need a breather and it is important for you to have a quality bench player to put in to steal some minutes with as little of drop off as possible. This is where the transfers hurt.
Again, not saying this is unique to us or even criticizing BB for the transfers we have had. Last time I checked we are slightly above avg in # of transfers but nothing too out of the norm. But it is something that shouldnt just be dismissed. When you are having recruiting struggles, keeping guys in your program and developing talent becomes even more important.
But anyway moving on, I am not angry and we are all good. I just get frustrated when some take a post without even reading the whole thing and negatively attack it as a dumb post or claiming it automatically as a bash without discussion just cause you offer a critique of the program. I apologize as well for going a bit overboard on you. I do agree with you that there are a lot of senseless attacks on the board that go overboard or are ignorance on display.
Very good post. It definitely hurts chemistry and continuity. I think Brownell has played the transfer game pretty well and it definitely has bought him some time. I would prefer going forward that we limit inbound transfers and only use it when we are in a bind.
We have 2 good commits coming this year. I am very interested to see what his next class is like. If he reels in another good class, that will be 3 in a row and really set us up for the next few years.
I could see one of the freshman transferring. Maybe Chase Hunter? Is he hurt again, or just not playing?
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: did you even read the post thread completely????
Feb 11, 2020, 11:14 AM
[ in reply to did you even read the post thread completely???? ] |
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I agree 100% case in point: the local five-star McGowen’s kid at wren high school. Did he even consider Clemson? He just committed to FSU. With Brownell and his track record I seriously doubt it. When you can’t even interest local players who are Division I prospects how well are you going to do out of state? Brownell is not the answer and never has been and never will be ... there’s absolutely no reason why Clemson cannot be competitive in basketball, other schools do it to say otherwise is defeatist. Makes me wonder about the administration concerning basketball ???
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All-Conference [441]
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110%er [7157]
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do tell when this wasn't the case?***
Feb 11, 2020, 8:52 AM
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CU Medallion [58377]
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Absolutely no doubt. I was watching the clip of our 1987
Feb 11, 2020, 9:30 AM
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tourney team in a thread below, and commented that we only have one player on the current roster that could crack the top 7 or 8 on that team. The talent just isn't here and hasn't been there under Brownell. Elden Campbell, Jerry Pryor, Michael Brown, and Ricky Jones were all highly rated, national recruits. Ricky Jones never panned out at Clemson, but he was a Parade All-American (a very prestigious honor in those days). Campbell, Grant, and Tait all played in the NBA. That team was exceptional, but under Foster and Ellis, we had some very talented teams. Even Barnes in his short time reeled in some national recruits and better overall talent than we have seen in recent years. It's not impossible to recruit good talent at Clemson.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 9:54 AM
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Ok, I won't tell you about next year's recruits.
What I will tell you is that when they have been on the floor and healthy, THIS year's true freshmen have been some of the more exciting players to watch on our team.
I think Brownell did well with Dawes, Hemenway, and Hunter.
None of them have been team changers at this point, but that can be attributed some to injuries and freshmen inconsistency for the most part.
Simms is our best player, but I think the 3 freshmen have been the most fun to watch on the court.
If Brownell can develop those 3 then the team should at least be more exciting to watch for the next few years.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 10:40 AM
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Totally agree. Until we get a coach who can and will recruit, nothing will change. Both Barnes and OP recruited well at times, and then pulled a Spurrier. Clemson will never recruit itself in basketball. And until the Administration is willing to pay a coach who can and will recruit, nothing will change. And that includes next season.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 12:02 PM
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Only Barnes recruited well. Even then, his tenure overlapped with a greater trend of a lot of NBA talent NOT going to traditional programs. The early 90s were ripe for a lot of disruption with the expansion allowing more NBA talent more choices in programs and immediate impact rather than stacking in blue-blood programs with a limited number of NCAA opportunities. Still Barnes knew we were never going to support basketball to keep the hustle up.
OP did not recruit well. He recruited "ok" for his scheme but rarely got or developed major talent. He only had one completely under-recruited "lucky hit' in Booker. Who would have thought that he would be a NBA level talent from someone who got two offers, Wofford and us.
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Orange Blooded [3649]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 12:59 PM
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Recruiting has always been a problem unfortunately
Dook, UNC, Louisville all get numerous 5 stars
We get NONE
Why do you think our fb team is doing so well?
and unless our baseball program ups its game that will also be going downhill
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110%er [6825]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 2:08 PM
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Why is out FB team doing so well?
We went all-in since the beginning. We have innovated and found funding to make ourselves "elite" and our biggest argument about football was whether or not the FB coach was more powerful than the University President... and some folks still think we should have bet on Ford.
Basketball? We did not hire a basketball coach until 40+ year after fielding a team. The basketball program was literally a job to pad the assistant football coach's income.
Back in the early 2000s, UVA decided it was going to invest in basketball. 180 million in facilities in today's dollars (130m back then). They built some amazing items and then waited to find the right coach. WSU was willing to get rid of Tony Bennett and BOOM UVA has its Natty.
Back in the early 2000s, Clemson decided that enough was enough and with the help of Tommy Bowden, re-invested heavily in football facilities. Tommy's second major accomplishment other than hiring Dabo was leading the charge out of the dark-ages of facilities. There was a LOT of reinvestment into the Football program under Bowden. Likewise, the investments came first for Clemson football and we had to wait to find the right coach. We found in in-house and stuck with him.
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All-In [44000]
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Our 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes say hi.***
Feb 11, 2020, 12:04 PM
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CU Medallion [58377]
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2020 class is 8th in the ACC. 2019 is 9th.
Feb 11, 2020, 2:07 PM
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What is your point?
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All-In [44000]
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My point is that recruiting has definitely improved.
Feb 11, 2020, 2:15 PM
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Our 2020 class is 35th nationally despite only having 2 recruits. In terms of average ranking, we are in the top 15 I believe. Clemson hasn't done that very often. In fact, our very few top 25-30 classes in school history are almost always ranked that highly because it's a larger class. Not that we didn't have good players, but the recruiting ranking was elevated because it was a class of 4 or 5 players instead of 2.
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CU Medallion [58377]
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Yeah, that's good recruiting for us, especially based on
Feb 11, 2020, 7:30 PM
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our history of poor recruiting, but we're still behind the curve. "Good for us" isn't good enough. We need to be good compared to our competition.
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MVP [505]
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Re: FACE IT! Our B-ball problem is recruiting!
Feb 11, 2020, 2:14 PM
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Followed very closely by the quality of our in-game coaching!
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Orange Blooded [2403]
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how we played the last minute of the ND game shows. .
Feb 11, 2020, 6:06 PM
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there are more problems with our staff than just recruiting.
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Orange Blooded [2672]
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