|
Replies: 34
| visibility 1
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
This is a pretty good summation of both sides...
Sep 5, 2020, 9:03 PM
|
|
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8701417/Fox-News-Jennifer-Griffin-stands-story-says-confirms-Trump-disparaged-soldiers.html
I can't remember what it was, but it seems Jennifer Griffin came under fire for something else a while back. I remember liking her then. She seems like a good journalist. When she says, "my sources are unimpeachable," that puts it in a little stronger position than I stated before.
This will be a slam dunk IMO if someone like John Kelly comes forward.
I know if I was John Kelly and Trump said to me at my son's grave, "I don't get it. What's in it for them," I would have no problem blasting that person.
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Guru [1381]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/23/15
|
Re: This is a pretty good summation of both sides...
Sep 5, 2020, 9:35 PM
|
|
Just my opinion. But the majority of each side this (even if proven true) still doesn’t matter. It sucks to think that, but I’m afraid it won’t.
For trumpers, they’ll act mad for a minute and somehow defend other things he did and said. They’ll say he misspoke and meant something else... they’ll point to his policy, and somethin Onama or The Clintons did or said. Then they will run that person into the ground that spilled the goods
I was speaking to a life long Pub today, he said without having a video or hot mic, it doesn’t take to much imagination to picture the words coming out of his (trumps) mouth. He is I sure what he’s gonna do on Election Day. We live in a State that will not be in question anyway
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
I'm struggling with this...
Sep 5, 2020, 9:44 PM
|
|
As a "conservative" whatever that means, if this is indeed proven to be true, it also confirms (in my mind) a consistent disregard for EVERYBODY. You can't pretend to be the "for the military" guy Trump paints himself to be and make remarks like, "Why would somebody give their life for their country." I don't have words to describe my feelings about that. This is the ultimate two-face, if true.
I strongly oppose progressive policies and think Biden is a terrible candidate, but it will be a struggle to vote for Trump if this is true.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
I truly feel sorry for you...***
Sep 6, 2020, 7:38 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
thanks mike***
Sep 6, 2020, 10:15 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: This is a pretty good summation of both sides...
Sep 5, 2020, 9:39 PM
|
|
Nah. It comes down to staunch proud Trump supporters being ignorant delusional ignorant rubes. There's really nothing to add more than that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24477]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
The story just doesn't sound true. We know he said what
Sep 5, 2020, 9:48 PM
|
|
he did about Vietnam soldiers (we have elected presidents who spent their pre election adult lives saying the same thing). But the nature of this expanded account - the things said, the 'anonymous' sources for which anonymity is not required, the unconfirmed quotes, the first hand witnesses who refute it - it doesn't have the characteristics of a true story. Sounds like the Blasey Ford story.
If its true, I want to know it, but it puts me in a position similar to the Blasey Ford thing. I wouldn't want a judge who had done that, but all that was presented was a story that couldn't be independently confirmed, likewise couldn't be proven wrong, and for which there was evidence against. I had to choose to decide (not that I had a vote) on the definition of truth rather than gut feelings. Can't let truth be redefined that way.
Same here, in the end. People will believe it because they want to, and the reverse. I am putting It into a separate category until somebody presents something substantial. Can't let people influence me with 'stories'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
Have we had a POTUS say...
Sep 5, 2020, 9:53 PM
|
|
soldiers who went to Vietnam were suckers? Ah, most of them didn't have a choice.
I agree that it sounds fishy and I question the timing, but I think Jennifer Griffin is a pretty reliable reporter. She is one that really went after Obama during Benghazi.
It's going to take more than anonymous tough for me to believe it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1381]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/23/15
|
Re: Have we had a POTUS say...
Sep 5, 2020, 10:00 PM
|
|
So you need to know who said he said it? It’s not enough to know that someone has come forward to not 1 but several outlets to confirm, you need to know who that person(s) is? I expect that whomever it is realizes the smear campaign that would follow along with unhinged trumpers threatening their lives.
I agree Jennifer seems a legit reporter to me
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
yes, it matters...
Sep 5, 2020, 10:11 PM
|
|
for instance, this recent Elizabeth Neumann defection means little to me. She's complaining that Trump is calling out rioters and ignoring the threat of white supremacist groups.
We'll disagree I'm sure and I'm even too tired to care about explaining my reasons for that. We aren't seeing a whole lot of white supremacist groups causing a lot of destruction right now. Not saying they don't exist, but what is Trump supposed to do, "The burning and looting has got to stop and we need to stop white supremacists before they do whatever they are going to do."
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1381]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/23/15
|
Re: yes, it matters...
Sep 5, 2020, 10:24 PM
|
|
Franc you seem to be a relatively level headed poster, compared to many on here, but can’t say I can understand this thinking.
It’s one thing for a person to “defect” due to their beliefs on certain policies from trump. It’s a very different animal to overhear trump say these words .. to me it doesn’t matter if it’s Kelly himself, or the guy at the McDonalds drive thru that trump the motorcade stop at. But hey maybe that’s just me
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1381]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/23/15
|
T3 thx for your input, however
Sep 5, 2020, 10:27 PM
|
|
The question was to Franc, there’s a very good reason I’d never ask you such a question
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
and that reason is that you're so biased you want to blame
Sep 6, 2020, 7:40 AM
|
|
everyone else for the same thing.
Please, just go vote - your opinion can be mailed in on every one of these subjects.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Ok, that doesn't mean people don't lie to her.
Sep 5, 2020, 10:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Have we had a POTUS say... ] |
|
Her credentials have nothing to do with second hand information. If I lie to you in such a was as to convince you that I am telling the truth does that reflect on your honesty or integrity? If so then be honest with yourself and think of all the lies you believed because you trusted someone.
You don't have to say anything, we all understand how trust is broken and we've all been victims of liars who at the time we honestly believed were telling the truth.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
the only issue with that...
Sep 5, 2020, 11:15 PM
|
|
is her belief that her sources are"unimpeachable."
I took the same stance you are here - she was just reporting what she heard. But she is indeed making a judgment on the information by claiming her sources are reliable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1381]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 2089
Joined: 4/23/15
|
Re: the only issue with that...
Sep 5, 2020, 11:36 PM
|
|
That’s not quite what she’s doing.
She is saying she was told that this person(s) heard such things being said. Now you can believe that person is making it up or whatever. Or not believe her 2nd hand info ... as if you’d believe it if said person stepped forward
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
that's not how I read her claims...
Sep 5, 2020, 11:46 PM
|
|
I may be reading it wrong though. Is she not saying that her sources are believable people?
Because I think she is a principled reporter, it weighs more on my thinking. It pushes me from 0 to about 5 or 6 on a believable scale. If principled witness who was there comes forward it pushes in closer to 10 on that scale.
unimpeachable is a pretty strong statement, no?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Are you saying she didn't make that choice when she...
Sep 6, 2020, 10:53 AM
[ in reply to the only issue with that... ] |
|
published the story? It rings as doubling down. IDK if Trump said it or not. I just know it's secondhand information which we use to call gossip.
Strange that her sources are unimpeachable (integrity above reproach) yet they had no issue with making such outrageous claims against a president as long as no one found out who they were and put their unimpeachable reputation on the line. I don't know if my flawed character could stand to be in the presence of such nobility. They sound almost holy to me. I didn't know Trump allowed people like them close to him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
I get that...
Sep 6, 2020, 11:08 AM
|
|
and I think my point is that she is indeed "doubling down" on it.
And your point of second hand information is exactly why I need faces for these claims.
I will also say that "outrageous" about these claims might not be the right word based on some of Trump's statements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
True.
Sep 6, 2020, 11:23 AM
|
|
Outrageous is where Trump lives.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24477]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
I was probably amending as you were typing.
Sep 5, 2020, 10:12 PM
[ in reply to Have we had a POTUS say... ] |
|
No, didn't mean to say we have had a sitting president say such things. But I'm pretty sure people like Bill and Hillary spent a lot of time on campus saying things that were very similar. I have heard veterans say the same thing. Heck, I didn't think about this until just now, but my own dad - who was in combat in Korea, the most gung-ho guy you ever saw, wears his service pin on his lapel - said to me as we were waiting on my draft number: "I would do anything I reasonably could to not get sent to that meaningless hell hole." I went to Clemson primarily to be in AFROTC, and on visits home I often got the 'are you sure about this" talk. I don't know that he actually said these words, but he easily could have said, and his opinion was, "Anybody who signs up to go there isn't thinking straight."
That is not the same as apologizing for what Trump said about Vietnam. Different subject. Just saying he was guilty of senseless indiscreetness, a thing we already knew, not of thinking anything a lot of very patriotic people don't also think.
Having said that, the current story doesn't have the ring of truth. It sounds like somebody took the above comments and expanded them. Could a person have some animosity toward soldiers and thus say both things? Sure. But that doesn't seem to be what is happening here. The characteristics of a truthful account are not there.
As you said, if something objective comes out that says he did say those things, I will be put in a strictly lesser-of-two-evils situation. But I am not going to be forced to decide whether it happened or not. I am not going to have truth defined for me by another 'he said" story. Not only have those been untrue so far, but one gives up his independent claim on truth if he lets that happen. I'm not going to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
I got you...
Sep 5, 2020, 10:15 PM
|
|
I think all of the statements combined paint a pretty bad picture.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24477]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
Just to clarify: All of what statements?***
Sep 5, 2020, 10:17 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
all of what Griffin is seeming to be confirming...
Sep 5, 2020, 10:53 PM
|
|
all of those combined are huge
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24477]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
IE: What I think I know so far:
Sep 5, 2020, 10:24 PM
[ in reply to I got you... ] |
|
- One outlet published a story.
- The story was that four anonymous people said he said a list of things, but not all have the same list, because:
- The most damaging of those things were not corroborated.
- Several people who will say so publicly refute the claims.
- One of those who refutes the claims would like to disparage Trump at any turn.
The alleged statements were a long time ago, and are just now being reported. Am I missing anything?
This election has turned into a coordinated stream of unsupported claims. I'm about like one of the people on the OJ jury, "Until you stop the nonsense, I'm not listening to anything. Get your act straight and I'll listen. Otherwise, no."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
i'm with you...
Sep 5, 2020, 10:57 PM
|
|
that's why I'm interested in seeing how this plays out...whether someone will come forward or this goes the way of bountygate
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11196]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14048
Joined: 9/2/03
|
POTUS is a shidbag, do you need anymore confirmation
Sep 5, 2020, 10:33 PM
|
|
on this?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Trump may be the one person on earth...
Sep 5, 2020, 10:42 PM
|
|
more capable that putting his foot in his mouth than me. So do I think he would say it? I'll say this, he's said a hail of a lot of stuff I would only have said when I was drunk. To his credit, some of the things he's said during rallies really were in jest. Some were not.
You and spooneye just think you're sceptics. There's one truth in this world and that's the Word of God. So when someone assure me that what they are saying is true because their sources are unimpeachable I'm ready to run a background check on the sources. If they come back squeaky clean then the evidence they offer might be enough to make me believe them. Then there's that factor where a liar can tell me what I want to hear and I take that as gospel. 
'My sources are unimpeachable,' sounds a lot like 'trust me,' and 'the checks in the mail, I swear on my mother's life.' A reasonable person would consider this. If you believe her when she said people told her what Trump said you should believe that she believes her sources are unimpeachable. All she did with the 'unimpeachable source,' statement was confirm that she believed the people told her.
Basically, You should know I believed the story I heard was true or I wouldn't have reported it. Now I'm telling it's true because I believe my sources are unimpeachable. A sceptic would see that while she was saying it.
Try that in court.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
the reporter matters to me...
Sep 5, 2020, 11:04 PM
|
|
Jennifer Griffin was a shark on Obama and Benghazi. I think she is pretty nonpartisan. I think she believes the people she talked to are reliable. Maybe it's Jared Kushner 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
do you not understand just how ridiculous it sounds
Sep 6, 2020, 7:49 AM
|
|
to give a story credence because of the general veracity of the 2nd hand sources to that story.
So if that were true, then every person who reported that George Floyd died of asphyxiation caused by a knee to the throat somehow had it right simply because of their view of a video.
And yet..... that account disagrees to some extent with the Medical Examiner's report who found no asphyxiation caused by physical force. Instead he found other significant factors: heart ailments, COVID19, lethal levels of fentanyl, drug-induced paranoia, etc.
SMFDH - you're trying to act like you can divine Truth at the bottom of nothing but lies. Try telling that to every guy who spent 30 years in prison one something he didn't do after being targeted by an over-zealous DA.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
do you ever view anything without a political filter?
Sep 6, 2020, 10:19 AM
|
|
You are so sure of yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
Actually, as I have stated several times, I don't vote
Sep 6, 2020, 11:03 AM
|
|
I don't watch the news; I don't read the papers; I don't visit websites. I am probably the least Political person with somewhat significant intelligence and post-grad education that you would ever meet. That might have something to do with "being sure of myself". I don't wade so far into details that the forest cannot be understood.
Really though it comes from having been shown the reality of darkness that is Liberal politics - having been shown beyond a shadow of a doubt and on a personal basis.
But hey that's just "unimpeachable sources" again for you, right?
The point though was clear: trying to look through the fog of bad reporting, untold numbers of bad DoD relationships by Trump, the myriad previous attempts to pull him down using ill-gotten and illicit information, the simple fact that the Politicians in Washington hate him beyond measure because he won't cower to their games, etc. etc. is folly.
At some point you've just got to wave it all off, and focus on the bigger picture. This isn't about Biden at all - he'll hardly survive the election. It's not so much about Trump either - not as a person, per se.
If Trump loses - heck, when the next Democrat Supermajority is realized - you can kiss Due Process goodbye. Literally.
It's already what they live in Russia and China. It's what they lived in Rome and Greece. Why would anyone be so arrogant as to believe it cannot happen here?
As I said: I've had it quite literally proven to me. Best.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
|
based on this...
Sep 6, 2020, 12:33 PM
|
|
you are misreading what I said. I said Griffin claims her sources are unimpeachable. I don't know because I do not know who they are.
If you are the one who is calling for the country to be divided, it is rather hard to take you seriously.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 73%
Posts: 3171
Joined: 6/12/20
|
As I said, her trying to provide veracity to other people
Sep 6, 2020, 5:22 PM
|
|
is something I don't put any faith in at all. People can and will be lied to under virtually any circumstances.
Believe her if you want. Just not my bag.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 34
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
