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All-TigerNet [12270]
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this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of
May 22, 2012, 3:15 PM
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clemson moving to the big 12 is all about tv exposure and big tv money, it would take the game of football away from the fans. look at the decline in our game attendance in the past few years, it is the result of the rise in ticket prices and the availablity of tv games. a lot of fans myself included can not even afford to attend all of the home games. if we moved to the big 12 the road games would only be attended by the few fans that could afford to fly.
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CU Guru [1053]
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Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of
May 22, 2012, 3:20 PM
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If you can't afford to attend all the home games, why are the away games even a consideration for you?
As a fan, I'm more excited to see more entertaining, more competitive games for our team throughout the season.
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All-TigerNet [12270]
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tallahassee fl is as close to here as clemson sc.***
May 22, 2012, 3:30 PM
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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They'd be going with us***
May 22, 2012, 3:47 PM
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Orange Blooded [3178]
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wrong .... this move isnt about money
May 22, 2012, 3:40 PM
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its about survival. The increase in revenue is only the effect of the action. Stay in the ACC and might as well fill in the Valley and play on Riggs.
With a mix of FSU, Texas, OU, OSU, WVU, VT, GT, etc all coming to death valley ...ticket sales wont be a problem. And please stop selling Clemson fans short. Clemson will sell its allotment even in Lubbock
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All-TigerNet [12270]
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see you in lubbock?***
May 22, 2012, 4:02 PM
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Legend [15730]
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Just my opinion, but I think you're wrong.
May 22, 2012, 9:06 PM
[ in reply to wrong .... this move isnt about money ] |
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Every single trip in the existing Big 12 (except WVU) is like the BC road trip for us now, except when you get there, you're not in Boston...you're in nowheresville, Kansas.
It might be "okay" attendance the first year (though, with the economy still not great, I doubt it), but then it will be almost nothing. Understand that Clemson fans are already in the home states of our ACC rivals. There are no Clemson alumni in Big 12 country (almost none).
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All-In [39020]
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Nowheresville, Kansas happens to be
May 22, 2012, 9:25 PM
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an awesome COLLEGE town with a wonderful campus. Kind of like this school in the foothills of the Appalachians.
#### Boston.
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Legend [15730]
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Well, to each his own. ******
May 22, 2012, 9:40 PM
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Orange Blooded [2402]
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All-In [39020]
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Replace Lawrence with Clemson...
May 23, 2012, 10:21 AM
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no, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I'd rather visit a nice campus with all the collegiate festivities than Boston. I'd rather be among people for whom the game is the day's event, and not something to do until the Red Sox play.
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All-Pro [667]
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roads games would definitely be much harder in big XII
May 22, 2012, 7:25 PM
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Let's break it down
Assuming you live in GA/SC/NC
Drive to:
Wake, FSU, Ga Tech, NC State, Duke, UNC, Virginia, Va Tech
Fly to:
BC, Miami, Marlyand, Pitt, Syracuse
Big XII:
Fly to All
I will say again, I am for it if we bring FSU and one more acc team (prefer ga tech). Clemson fans will travel long distances, we've done it for aTm, miami, and BC, but you won't get those huge groups week after week; people just don't have the money. Also I always enjoy a game or two where we can bring 10k+ people.
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1st Rounder [649]
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Actually you can drive to WV and FSU would be coming with us***
May 22, 2012, 7:32 PM
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CU Guru [1895]
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Do you know where Morgantown is?***
May 22, 2012, 8:15 PM
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Legend [17529]
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Hello Sav82Tiger
May 22, 2012, 9:01 PM
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I'm also in Savannah ... 1984 grad.
Have you truly road tripped to any ACC games? If yes, what venues and fan bases did you most enjoy?
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Legend [15730]
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I don't understand this question. Even if he hasn't, it's
May 22, 2012, 9:09 PM
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clear that Clemson fans travel well within the ACC (and of course to Columbia). We have filled half of the seats in Winston-Salem and received penalties for noise in Raleigh. We filled half of BoA Stadium this past December with one of the other great fanbases of the ACC. We will NOT fill half of the Cowboy's stadium.
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Oculus Spirit [81650]
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Exactly
May 22, 2012, 9:11 PM
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There are 8 ACC venues within a 5 hour or less drive from Raleigh (one within walking distance from me right now, haha).
If we were to go to the Big XII, there would be only 1 venue (Clemson) for me to get within 5 hours (and if you lived in Clemson, just one...Clemson).
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110%er [7219]
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Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of
May 22, 2012, 9:17 PM
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"look at the decline in our game attendance in the past few years, it is the result of the rise in ticket prices and the availablity of tv games."
I thought it was due to #### poor teams coming in the Valley - Do I need to name names? We always sell out for FSU, and GT is usually a sellout as well.
a lot of fans myself included can not even afford to attend all of the home games. if we moved to the big 12 the road games would only be attended by the few fans that could afford to fly
The Vally will stay in upstate SC regardless of conference affiliation. Road games at FSU and (hopefully) GT will remain the same. Did you really want to go to Duke, Wake, NCSU anyway?
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Legend [15730]
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Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of
May 22, 2012, 9:28 PM
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I thought it was due to #### poor teams coming in the Valley - Do I need to name names? We always sell out for FSU, and GT is usually a sellout as well.
Well, by all means, that will change when Baylor, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State are coming into town.
The Vally will stay in upstate SC regardless of conference affiliation. Road games at FSU and (hopefully) GT will remain the same. Did you really want to go to Duke, Wake, NCSU anyway?
So now Clemson fans don't want to be a traveling fan base? Oh well, I guess we should destroy all our traditions. It is money, after all. That's what we cheer for...hoping some day that our program will be the most lucrative in all the land. Oh, and NCSU is as good as just about all of the Big 12 venues, better than most and better than all when you consider it's a quick drive up to Raleigh. I've been to many games in all three of those venues and enjoyed every one of them (except Duke 2004...how did we lose that game!?!). Raleigh is a fun trip, and Duke and Wake allow Clemson fans to experience a different type of game...where you can sit close to the action without going broke.
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Legend [19576]
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Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of
May 22, 2012, 9:32 PM
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All of those teams will pull more fans to death valley than half the ACC teams. If you don't think so you're just being ridiculous to support your flawed argument
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Oculus Spirit [81650]
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Baylor will not bring more fans to Death Valley
May 22, 2012, 9:34 PM
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than NCSU...
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Baylor will not bring more fans to Death Valley
May 22, 2012, 9:38 PM
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probably not.. but they will bring more than Wake, Duke, BC,Syr... NCSU fans travel well for the ACC
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Oculus Spirit [81650]
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I'll buy travel better than Duke or BC. I have a
May 22, 2012, 9:43 PM
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feeling we're going to have a lot of Syracuse fans coming to check out Death Valley for the first few years, and they're everywhere, so they'll travel well.
It's much easier to drive 5 hours to Clemson for a game than to have to fly.
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Legend [15730]
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Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of
May 22, 2012, 10:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of ] |
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Big 12 attendance isn't that impressive to begin with, and that's in their region.
CONF School Town Avg attendance
Big 12 Texas Austin, Texas 100524
Big 12 Oklahoma Norman, Oklahoma 85161
ACC FSU Tallahassee, Florida 77842
ACC Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 66233
Big 12 Oklahoma State Stillwater, Oklahoma 57229
Big 12 West Virginia Morgantown, West Virginia 56532
ACC NCSU Raleigh, NC 56287
ACC UNC Chapel Hill, NC 56000
Big 12 Texas Tech Lubbock, Texas 55347
Big 12 Iowa State Ames, Iowa 53647
Big 12 Kansas State Manhattan, Kansas 49030
ACC MIami Miami, Florida 48654
ACC Georgia Tech Atlanta, Georgia 48232
ACC Virginia Charlottesville, VA 47940
ACC Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 46003
ACC Maryland College Park, MD 42355Big 12 Kansas Lawrence, Kansas 42283
Big 12 Baylor Waco, Texas 41368
ACC Syracuse Syracuse, NY 40504
ACC Boston College Boston, MA 35709
Big 12 TCU Fort Worth, Texas 33686
ACC Wake Forest Winston-Salem, NC 31967
ACC Duke Durham, NC 24393
Please explain to me how TCU, Baylor and Kansas are going to bring more fans to Clemson than local schools with bigger followings? I would bet my house that none of those programs would bring as many as VT, GT or FSU. Probably not as many as NCSU or UNC either.
You understand that Texas fans can go to Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU and their arch-rival gamea against Oklahoma in a car, right? After maybe the first game, do you really think they're going to circle Clemson as a go-to game or a "I think I'll take the week off and relax" game? Of course, we'd probably be in the opposite division from Texas, so it would only come up every six years or so...
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Fan [67]
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Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of
May 22, 2012, 10:31 PM
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CONF School Town Avg Percent Capacity
Big 12 Texas Austin, Texas >100%
Big 12 Oklahoma Norman, Oklahoma >100%
Big 12 Iowa State Ames, Iowa 98%
Big 12 Kansas State Manhattan, Kansas 98%
Big 12 Oklahoma State Stillwater, Oklahoma 95%
Big 12 West Virginia Morgantown, West Virginia 94%
Big 12 Texas Tech Lubbock, Texas 92%
Big 12 Kansas Lawrence, Kansas 84%
Big 12 Baylor Waco, Texas 83%
Big 12 TCU Fort Worth, Texas 76%
ACC Wake Forest Winston-Salem, NC >100%
ACC Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 100%
ACC NCSU Raleigh, NC 98%
ACC FSU Tallahassee, Florida 95%
ACC UNC Chapel Hill, NC 89%
ACC Georgia Tech Atlanta, Georgia 88%
ACC Syracuse Syracuse, NY 82%
ACC Boston College Boston, MA 80%
ACC Maryland College Park, MD 78%
ACC Virginia Charlottesville, VA 78%
ACC Duke Durham, NC 72%
ACC Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 71%
ACC MIami Miami, Florida 64%
Based on the attendance numbers you gave and the stadium capacity information, how is the BIG 12 attendance not that impressive compared to the ACC. Also, your attendance numbers must be off since Wake has over 100% capacity.
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Legend [15730]
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Yes, of course, the moving target plus the nitpick.
May 22, 2012, 11:01 PM
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Good combo.
I do like how you state that Texas and Oklahoma both have over 100% capacity, then state that numbers for Wake must be wrong because they are over 100% capacity.
"Originally built in 1968, Wake Forest's BB&T Field is the home of the Demon Deacon football team. With a bleacher capacity of 31,500 plus several thousand more behind the endzones, BB&T Field offers an intimate setting with fans right on top of the action."
http://www.wakeforestsports.com/facilities/wake-groves.html
NCAA Attendance #'s:
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2011.pdf
Your attendance percentages don't change anything. We know Texas and Oklahoma fill their stadiums. Clearly the rest do not. The fact that many Big 12 schools have rinky-dink stadiums to go along with their rinky-dink attendance does not impress me.
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Fan [67]
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Re: Yes, of course, the moving target plus the nitpick.
May 22, 2012, 11:48 PM
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Excuse me for not knowing they don't account for the mill seating in their official capacity data. When was the last time you saw their stadium completely filled? I haven't.
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CU Guru [1895]
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CU Guru [1197]
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110%er [7219]
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Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of
May 22, 2012, 9:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of ] |
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"Well, by all means, that will change when Baylor, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State are coming into town. "
I see what you did there - Take all the crappy teams and list them as the options. Sneaky!
What about WVU, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame (possibly), and keeping FSU and GT. See - I can do it too!
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Oculus Spirit [81650]
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WVU doesn't travel that well, Tex & Oklahoma
May 22, 2012, 9:34 PM
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will only be on a long rotation, Notre Dame & GT won't happen. FSU is the same as it is now.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: WVU doesn't travel that well, Tex & Oklahoma
May 22, 2012, 9:37 PM
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When have VISITING fans (save South Carolina) ever been a big deal on filling the Valley? Clemson fans will support good competition just like South Carolina fans are doing now. I have sat at 1/2 empty Williams Brice (with Gamecock relatives) in pre-SEC days.
Message was edited by: ClemTig®
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Oculus Spirit [81650]
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I didn't say it was a big deal, but it was brought
May 22, 2012, 9:41 PM
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up in your posts, that's why I said what I did.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: WVU doesn't travel that well, Tex & Oklahoma
May 22, 2012, 9:40 PM
[ in reply to WVU doesn't travel that well, Tex & Oklahoma ] |
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"Notre Dame & GT won't happen"
I'll make note of that and remind you of these words later.
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Oculus Spirit [81650]
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Fine with me mate, I'm an open and honest person,
May 22, 2012, 9:41 PM
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will eat crow when I provide it.
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Legend [15730]
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I listed half of the entire existing Big 12. You think half
May 22, 2012, 11:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of ] |
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of the conference you people are screaming to join is crappy? Kind of telling, don't you think?
Anyway, you said the drop in attendance was due to weak teams coming into Death Valley. So I thought mentioning all the weak teams in the Big 12 was appropriate.
Texas and Oklahoma will not, over the years, bring as many fans as NCSU, and will NEVER bring as many as VT.
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CU Guru [1197]
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Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of
May 23, 2012, 10:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: this whole big 12 discussion is sad imo. the idea of ] |
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Those teams more than likely wouldn't be in Clemson's divison.
We'd be in a potential division with FSU, Miami, GT, VT, WVU, TCU, maybe Notre Dame.
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CU Guru [1475]
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How many away games do you usually go to anyway?
May 22, 2012, 9:32 PM
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I would rather play more FB schools 8 weeks a year at home than have a huge road presence 4 times a year.
Yes we know its all about money. That will not change.
Would you rather pay $45 to watch us play duke or wake or $50 to see us play big 12 teams.
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Oculus Spirit [81650]
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I usually make 3 away games, if we go to the
May 22, 2012, 9:33 PM
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Big XII, I will make zero away games.
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Rock Defender [53]
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You know what would be sad?
May 22, 2012, 9:37 PM
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Playing a game when you know that you won't have a chance to play for the NC no matter what. That's where the ACC and it's member teams are headed.
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CU Guru [1363]
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actually, it's all about having a shot at a national
May 22, 2012, 10:36 PM
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championship.
We won't even get the opportunity in the ACC. You have to understand that.
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Legend [15730]
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That's false. No matter how many times you say it.******
May 22, 2012, 11:08 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93618]
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Dang, I thought it was about leaving a sinking ship and...
May 22, 2012, 10:38 PM
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being eligible to participate in the playoff system.
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Legend [15730]
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You guys are nuts if you think the ACC, if it stays in tact,
May 22, 2012, 11:10 PM
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would somehow be precluded from participating in a four team playoff system.
You're also nuts if you think a four team playoff system will last. We'd still be paying off our exit fees to the ACC when the playoff expands. That's the playoff, by the way, that does not currently exist at all.
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