|
Replies: 41
| visibility 1
|
CU Guru [1142]
TigerPulse: 53%
Posts: 2240
Joined: 6/5/12
|
kid turns down 1.2 M for what?
Jul 1, 2013, 9:55 AM
|
|
Wil Crowe (Pigeon Forge, TN) apparently needed 1.7 million to sign with the Astros out of high school. They only offered 1.2 M, so he is pitching for the ##### next year. I wonder how much of the signing bonus is guaranteed, and couldn't he go to college in the off season to earn a degree? Whether Clemson, SC, NC, or UCLA, for that matter, makes sense to sign and play, then invest or save that bonus. College would still be there.
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Guru [1243]
TigerPulse: 27%
Posts: 8289
Joined: 2/1/04
|
some kids have a # they want and
Jul 1, 2013, 10:03 AM
|
|
if it's not met- they go to college.
If money isn't a big issue for the family, some kids want the college experience instead of laboring in the minor leagues for 2-3 years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [761]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1061
Joined: 10/19/04
|
Re: some kids have a # they want and
Jul 1, 2013, 10:08 AM
|
|
Is he a gamecock signee? Tough to tell with the censor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1243]
TigerPulse: 27%
Posts: 8289
Joined: 2/1/04
|
Yes***
Jul 1, 2013, 10:09 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [761]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1061
Joined: 10/19/04
|
Thanks for clearing that up.***
Jul 1, 2013, 10:10 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64590]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88994
Joined: 3/27/01
|
You do realize that even after college....
Jul 1, 2013, 10:32 AM
[ in reply to some kids have a # they want and ] |
|
he's still likely to labor in the minors for two to three years (if not longer).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Die-Hard [8977]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 11532
Joined: 6/23/04
|
As a rule, players signed out of college...
Jul 1, 2013, 11:21 AM
|
|
spend less time in the minor leagues. Six players from the 2012 draft have already made their Major League debuts and all of them were drafted out of D1 colleges.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64590]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88994
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Yes....
Jul 1, 2013, 11:33 AM
|
|
but players who spend a year or less in the minors would be the exception rather than the norm.
Six players from the 2012 draft out of a total of more than 1,320 drafted is still a pretty low precentage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Die-Hard [8977]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 11532
Joined: 6/23/04
|
But it's the 2012 draft...
Jul 1, 2013, 11:39 AM
|
|
which means it was just last year. For anybody to spend less than a year in the minor leagues is really impressive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64590]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88994
Joined: 3/27/01
|
I agree....
Jul 1, 2013, 12:12 PM
|
|
but those types of players are the exception rather than the norm.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Starter [390]
TigerPulse: 71%
Posts: 1455
Joined: 8/9/02
|
So, Clemson should advise their top baseball recruits...
Jul 1, 2013, 12:21 PM
|
|
...that if they are drafted they should go ahead and sign the major league contract?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Die-Hard [8977]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 11532
Joined: 6/23/04
|
For starters...
Jul 1, 2013, 12:34 PM
|
|
no one gets a Major League contract out of the draft anymore. That changed with the current CBA. A few players got Major League contracts when they signed right after the draft (Stephen Strasburg and Anthony Rendon come to mind), but they were nearly ALWAYS college players. Close to 90% of the players that sign professional contracts never make it to the Major Leagues. Going to college is the right route, and all the statistics back that up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1776]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2566
Joined: 3/15/99
|
But how much of that has to do more with the
Jul 1, 2013, 5:09 PM
[ in reply to As a rule, players signed out of college... ] |
|
fact they have had three more years of physical development as opposed to those who sign out of high school?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
If he was holding fast at 1.7
Jul 1, 2013, 10:54 AM
[ in reply to some kids have a # they want and ] |
|
Thats around the 30th pick in the draft. He's got a pretty narrow window to move up enough to offset the 3 years he didn't have that money.
He's got to jump to the middle teens to get the number he wants. If this was a financial decision he got bad advice. If this was an emotional decision then good luck to him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [338]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 1013
Joined: 9/16/11
|
Re: If he was holding fast at 1.7
Jul 1, 2013, 11:08 AM
|
|
Perhaps it was a quality of life decision. $1.2M may seem like a lot of money and it is, but it's not forever kind of money. The life of a college baseball player is a better life than that of a minor league baseball player. Personal growth is also likely to be greater in college than in the minors. He'll get an education worth >$150K and improve as a baseball player.
After his professional career, he will have a lot more options having gone to college even if it's only for 3 years.
Suppose you had the choice between getting $700K cash (roughly what he'd get after fees and taxes) and play minor league baseball for 3-4 years or get a full ride to play college baseball at a school like usc-e or Clemson for 3-4 years with the potential of getting that same $700K or a little more if you went pro.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
Quality of life = emotional decision
Jul 1, 2013, 12:34 PM
|
|
And I'm fine with someone making that same decision. Its up to them.
The numbers don't usually bear out someone passing up a million plus signing bonus for 3 years from a financial perspective. If you sign for the same thing 3 years later, you made a bad financial decision. (But its hard to put a price on college wimmin!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Die-Hard [8977]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 11532
Joined: 6/23/04
|
You sure are hung up on money...
Jul 1, 2013, 12:44 PM
|
|
and you are also wrong. For one thing, no one receives the entire value of his signing bonus. Secondly, minor leaguers don't get paid during the offseason, which means they have no income for 7 months of the year. They wind up living on that signing bonus for all the months they aren't playing. And I'll tell you what, if my kid got a million plus to bypass college, he's not living with me for free in the offseason. Players in the low minors barely make minimum wage and they're living 4 and 5 to an apartment and eating ramen noodles to make ends meet. Not to mention, some of that meager salary goes to pay clubhouse dues. If someone signs for 3 million out of college and only spends 8 or 9 months in the minor leagues compared to someone that gets 3 million out of HS and spends 4 years or more in the minor leagues, the college player has a lot more of that bonus money by the time he makes it to the majors. And he has a much better chance of making it than the HS kid does.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
Its a job. You should focus on the money
Jul 1, 2013, 2:07 PM
|
|
You go to college to better yourself for your career.
What you say is true that minor leaguers don't get paid during the offseason, but for those folks in the low minors their is no offseason. They are playing somewhere all the time. And actually considering the hours they put in, minor leaguers get paid less than minimum wage.
But this is a discussion for a very select few prospects. Those prospects that can command the big signing bonuses. If you can improve your draft stock by more than 3 rounds its a no-brainer to go to college rather than HS if you have that option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Die-Hard [8977]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 11532
Joined: 6/23/04
|
Maybe he told the truth...
Jul 1, 2013, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to If he was holding fast at 1.7 ] |
|
and meant it when he said it would take 1.7 million to get him away from college. Unlike Daniel Norris who lied about the figure, saying it would take 4 million but signing for 2. It's sad that the money is all that matters and not doing the right thing. And in case you weren't aware, the slot values go up dramatically every year, so it will be much easier to get to 1.7 million three years from now than you think it will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
The middle slot figures don't go up much year over year
Jul 1, 2013, 12:40 PM
|
|
The top picks do. The #1 pick went up by over 500k this year. The 3 million mark was #7 last year and was #9 this year. 1.7 would have been the 26th pick in 2012 and the 31st pick in 2013. The increase year over year barely beats a 7% rate of return.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rookie [16]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 41
Joined: 6/2/13
|
Re: The middle slot figures don't go up much year over year
Jul 1, 2013, 2:27 PM
|
|
I would take a 7% ROI and getting to play college baseball and get an education along with it is a pretty big deal.
Then again, big risk. One might not be as good as they thought or have serious injuries. Further, likely have to go after three years or they do not have any leverage in negotiations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19352]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 22266
Joined: 4/25/04
|
Re: Maybe he told the truth...
Jul 10, 2013, 12:56 PM
[ in reply to Maybe he told the truth... ] |
|
Here comes more practice guy filth. Insulting kids for chasing their dreams instead of doing what Baseballfan wants.
Pathetic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3788]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 9880
Joined: 11/2/08
|
Re: kid turns down 1.2 M for what?
Jul 1, 2013, 10:05 AM
|
|
Most (probably all) major league teams are willing to set aside extra cash (100k or so) earmarked especially for college. It's kind of a win-win deal because if the kid pans out then he makes major league money, and if he doesn't then he gets his college paid for.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4947]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6981
Joined: 10/12/06
|
Re: kid turns down 1.2 M for what?
Jul 1, 2013, 10:06 AM
|
|
About the same thing Okey said going into the Draft. After the 2nd round he made it clear he was going to Clemson and fell down the draft board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
This is not an uncommon tactic
Jul 1, 2013, 10:29 AM
|
|
Prospects and their "advisors" will peg them as a certain round and if they don't go in that round the ask for money equal to that round. He was bascially saying that he thought he was a late first round/early second round draft pick and should be paid accordingly no matter when he was drafted.
The astros didn't draft him so they never offically offered him anything. They called prior to drafting him asking if 1.2 would be enough for him to consider and he held firm on 1.7. They moved on and didn't waste a draft pick on him, its called "signability."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addict [400]
TigerPulse: 24%
Posts: 1255
Joined: 11/3/06
|
Re: kid turns down 1.2 M for what?
Jul 1, 2013, 11:11 AM
|
|
The Astros offered to take him as the 62nd pick. He'll make to the majors just as quick, possibly quicker after 3 years in the #1 college baseball program in the country and get first round money then if he's as good as advertised. I think Clemson also has a guy turning a big bonus to come to school. Most players that go straight to MLB say they wish they had had the college experience because the others that went to college say that was their most memorable time in baseball.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1482]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 2011
Joined: 3/4/11
|
Re: kid turns down 1.2 M for what?
Jul 1, 2013, 4:47 PM
|
|
>
> He'll make to the majors just as quick, possibly
> quicker after 3 years in the #1 college baseball
> program in the country and get first round money
He decided not to go to Columbia and is going to UCLA instead?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Addict [400]
TigerPulse: 24%
Posts: 1255
Joined: 11/3/06
|
Re: kid turns down 1.2 M for what?
Jul 1, 2013, 5:06 PM
|
|
South Carolina has been #1, #1, #2 & #12 over the last 4 years. Early projections have us going back to Omaha next year. No other program is close to that. Arizona who won the championship last year didn't even make the NCAA tournament this year. Our staying power year after year makes us the #1 baseball program in the country.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Die-Hard [8977]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 11532
Joined: 6/23/04
|
The "college will still be there" excuse is really old...
Jul 1, 2013, 11:26 AM
|
|
college baseball will NOT "still be there", but playing pro ball will. Going to college does not prevent someone from playing pro baseball. If anything, it enhances his chances of playing Major League ball and the statistics prove it. Over 60% of the players that made their Major League debuts in 2012 were drafted out of D1 colleges; about 12% were drafted out of HS.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64590]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88994
Joined: 3/27/01
|
I wonder what the percentage is....
Jul 1, 2013, 12:34 PM
|
|
of kids who forego college for professional baseball, and return to college later to earn their degree. I suspect it would be pretty small.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Die-Hard [8977]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 11532
Joined: 6/23/04
|
Which makes the "college willl still be there" argument...
Jul 1, 2013, 12:37 PM
|
|
pretty stupid. For some reason though, people still believe it. Some people are hung up on drafting HS players like it's the greatest idea ever; even when it isn't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
It would depend on too many factors to measure
Jul 1, 2013, 12:41 PM
[ in reply to I wonder what the percentage is.... ] |
|
1) Were they even college material to begin with?
2) How far did they advance in the minors?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Die-Hard [8977]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 11532
Joined: 6/23/04
|
Most of them are "college material"...
Jul 1, 2013, 12:46 PM
|
|
or they lead you to believe they are. Madison Younginer got $900,000 or so (before taxes) in 2009 and he's still stuck in low A. Guess he made the right decision, huh?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
Hate to break it to you
Jul 1, 2013, 2:15 PM
|
|
but not every drafted player had the ability to get into college or pay for the vast majority of it.
Younginer was an 8th round draft pick back before slotting. The rules have changed. He got paid almost a million dollars at 18 years old and would have gotten about 350k now. If you read any of the scouting material, the issues the Sox have with him are things that a college coach wouldn't have time because of NCAA rules to fix.
So all things considered, he is where he would have been with more cash in his pocket.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64590]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88994
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Assuming they are college material to begin with....
Jul 1, 2013, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to It would depend on too many factors to measure ] |
|
I would think that lifes circumstances would preclude the vast majority of them from ever returning to college to earn a degree.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
I would tend to agree
Jul 1, 2013, 2:17 PM
|
|
its probably the same % as the number of folks that go to work right out of HS. The longer you are out of school, the less likely you are go to go back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3788]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 9880
Joined: 11/2/08
|
If Holbrook is anything like Tanner
Jul 1, 2013, 12:23 PM
|
|
then there's a 50/50 chance that this kid's arm gets ruined before he leaves college.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1243]
TigerPulse: 27%
Posts: 8289
Joined: 2/1/04
|
What players are you referring to
Jul 10, 2013, 11:16 AM
|
|
specifically?
and I'm talking about pitchers that would have decent shots at the majors except for their "arms being ruined."
I'll wait for the list.
Also, please list the speed of their top end fastball, and quality of their curve when responding. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3788]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 9880
Joined: 11/2/08
|
Obviously that info isn't readily available
Jul 10, 2013, 12:40 PM
|
|
but here's an incomplete list of South Carolina Pitchers who have had to undergo Tommy John surgery either while at South Carolina or shortly after leaving:
Forrest Koumas (just announced)
Nolan Belcher
Adam Westmoreland
Sam Dyson
Arik Hempy
Jay Brown
Drake Thomason (this one might have been before he got to Scar)
Additionally Curtis Johnson had a torn labrum/rotator cuff which isn't as serious as needing Tommy John but is a pretty major throwing injury.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16907]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10770
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: If Holbrook is anything like Tanner
Jul 10, 2013, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to If Holbrook is anything like Tanner ] |
|
Considering his other mentor was Mike Fox his pitchers don't stand much of a chance. And to the coot asking for names - I don't keep track of the names of kids who constantly wash out of that program. But your own FGF had thread after thread about Mike Fox abusing Emmanuel and Ray Tanner was a constant target of the Boyd's World over pitching list.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2609]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6653
Joined: 9/1/11
|
looks like his lack of intelligence matches his college***
Jul 1, 2013, 2:47 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16907]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10770
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: kid turns down $1.2
Jul 10, 2013, 11:40 AM
|
|
Just FYI 100% of MLB signing bonuses are guaranteed and paid upfront. After that you enter the very convoluted minor league/ major league salary structure and are under contract for 7 years. Also, licensed baseball agents cannot touch any part of rookie signing bonuses or salary and can't touch major league earnings until certain benchmarks are met. To walk away from $1.2 for 3 years wanting $1.7 is outright foolish. Between interest and inflation he's pretty much guaranteed to lose money unless he improves his draft stock considerably. From an odds standpoint he is far more likely to move down than up - without even considering the chances of injury. Additionally, if you look at the last two years under the new draft rules high school players are getting more relative to their slot than college juniors and seniors. College seniors are getting the worst as the teams know these players are out of options.
Of course if he has the money to go to school and it is what you want to do that is a perfectly valid decision. But going on record that $500,000 was the difference makes it seem like you got some very bad advice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 41
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
