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All-TigerNet [13190]
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So, what did we learn tonight
Jan 26, 2014, 8:35 PM
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We learned that we are not a good team. We also learned that North Carolina currently has a superior basketball team. I will say that I have seen progress this season. We have moved from the bottom of the ACC to the middle of the pack. We are better than several programs, on level with several programs, and far behind elite programs. I would say at this point, that is progress. Is it disappointing that we didn't compete in the last two games. Yes, of course it is disappointing, but at this point a loss is a loss, by 30 or by 2 they all count the same.
Consider now how many players on Clemson should legitimately be starting. I see one in K.J. and that is about it. Of course it hurts that we have no senior class to fall back on this year to provide us with 1 or 2 more starters. Next season I think you will see a team with 3 legitimate starters in K.J., Nnoko, and Hall. The year after that I think you see 4 legit starters in Nnoko, Roper, Blossomgame, and possibly Grantham. That is how you build a program from scratch, which is where we started after O.P. left in the middle of the night.
We can fire B.B. but then we start right back at the bottom with nothing. I think waiting this out is the best course of action. Just my opinion at this point.
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All-In [36450]
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Re: So, what did we learn tonight
Jan 26, 2014, 8:40 PM
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I agree with you. Gotta give him more time. It's not a lack of coaching, it is talent.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I will say it is talent and experience
Jan 26, 2014, 8:41 PM
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We may never have the talent of UNC but we will eventually be able to field an experienced team of players. We have way too many young guys trying to do things they are simply not ready to do at this point in their career.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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N.C. currently has more Mc D's All Americans
Jan 26, 2014, 8:56 PM
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on their roster than we have had in the history of our program. They are young, and they are streaky, but they have elite talent.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Exactly ... look at who UNC has beaten as well as who they
Jan 26, 2014, 9:22 PM
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have lost to. They have beaten Louisville, Michigan State, and Kentucky in this roller coaster season.
The are not a consistently great team, but they have the talent to be a great team on any given night.
Tonight was a "given" night.
Of course, every trip to Chapel Hill by the Tigers provides one of those types of nights it seems ...
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Legend [15216]
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Nobody thought we'd be 4-3. Agree, at this point, no reason
Jan 26, 2014, 8:41 PM
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to start over. Let Brownell continue to build it. Good players coming in next year.
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Letterman [272]
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Re: Nobody thought we'd be 4-3. Agree, at this point, no reason
Jan 26, 2014, 9:12 PM
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We can not beat FSU or Miami or Wake Forest with Furman players. I'm not trying to consistently beat Duke or UNC or Syracuse...let's beat UVA & Wake & GT & State & FSU. It comes down to having the horses...we don't have any horses in the stable...except KJ and maybe Noko...the rest are 2 & 3 star players. I heard that even Davidson didn't want Smith, who was from Charlotte. We simply don't have players. Is it because no one wants to come play boring basketball? Notice how much Brad yells at the guys all game long. That gets old after awhile. Is his offense too difficult to grasp? Is he too hard on them when they shoot before the final 3 seconds of the shot clock? Come on...turn em loose.
I would contend that Clemson can be good in basketball. It takes 5 or 6 guys. Just 5 or 6 guys...you'll get a couple of Furman players to be role players....just 5 or 6 guys. Can we find 5 or 6 guys in America who want to win? Why has Baylor moved up? No tradition in basketball. Not metropolitan land. Can we recruit to Clemson? Well, football is sure doing it. Why has Florida Gulf Coast all of a sudden won? It took one coach, with vision, willing to go anywhere in America to find 5 or 6 guys.
Brad is from Indiana. I thought a lot of HS coaches know Brad Brownell. Where are the Indiana players on our team? Why are we not scouring the country to find 5 or 6 guys.
Can Littlejohn be electric? Sure it can...if you give our students a brand of basketball that is exciting. Put the students down close to the floor like Pitt or NC State.
I attended the FSU game...we were outmatched badly. They had 3 7-footers. There isn't a lot of tradition at FSU in basketball. How do they get 3 7-footers and we can't recruit one 6' 10"? Can a "perceived" football school be good in basketball? Ummm...Ohio State, Michigan, FSU, Miami, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Texas A&M, Texas. Of course they can. Clemson can and will be good in basketball one day. They will. Get a young 28 yr old who has played & been tutored by a Pitino or Coach K or Mich St or Billy Donovan...someone hungry enough to go find 5 or 6 players.
Truth is...we don't have help coming next year...maybe a starter in Grantham...so next year, we'll see the exact same results....lose by 20 to UNC & Pitt & UVA & FSU...win 2 or 3 at home. The following year (2016) we'll lose by 30 to the top teams and 10 to the lesser teams. We'll be in the dreaded plain game...if there is such a thing anymore.
Can we find 5 or 6 guys who want to win?
I made a deal with myself...I will meet the team when they land after beating UNC in the Dean Dome. Will it happen in my lifetime? I don't see it happening in the next 3-4 years.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You do realize that Indiana has the following programs
Jan 26, 2014, 9:14 PM
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Purdue, Indiana, Notre Dame, and Butler. Now if you also take into consideration that Michigan and Michigan St both heavily recruit Indiana and you will see where all those players end up.
Also, for the record, we have no 2* players that I am aware of on the roster.
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Letterman [272]
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Re: You do realize that Indiana has the following programs
Jan 26, 2014, 9:26 PM
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Yes, I do...but do you realize how many fundamentally sound D1 players are in Indiana?
Go into Indiana with a brand of basketball to make them turn their heads away from IU and Mich State...be like the team that averages 110+ points and kids will leave Indiana for Clemson. They can shoot whenever they want, they can drive to hole, they can run our opponents until their tongues hand out. Make it fun and gun.
We love Coach Morris and yet we've got a 60's style of basketball...dribble dribble dribble...pass pass pass...oh there's 3 seconds left...shoot!!!!
Let it rip. Tell HS kids...you come to Clemson and you'll take 20 shots a game.
I would contend that Smith, Harrison, guy from Chicago, Hall, Jitte...they are Davidson players trying to play Pitt, Duke, UNC and Syracuse. Maybe once, they'll have a great shooting game and we'll win, but by and large, we are what we thought we were...at the bottom of the ACC...thank heavens for VT.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Hey, that's what they are doing in Columbia
Jan 26, 2014, 9:58 PM
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Does not seem to be working either. I grew up in Indiana, so yes, I do understand Indiana High School basketball.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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CU Guru [1271]
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We are not a basketball school...don't have the talent
Jan 26, 2014, 8:45 PM
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and the other 4 teams we beat in the ACC are terrible except Duke which is hard to understand. Once every ten years we have a good team..look at the history of basketball at Clemson.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: So, what did we learn tonight
Jan 26, 2014, 8:49 PM
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I didn't learn anything.
I just had it reconfirmed that we have no shooters.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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I agree pretty much. I think Brownell is an excellent coach,
Jan 26, 2014, 8:50 PM
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but as I said from the start, recruiting will make or break him. So far, he has not recruited very well, and we are seeing the result of that. The problem is, who could have recruited lights out under the circumstances? I don't think anybody could have outside of a big-name like Pitino/Krysqsrzxvski/etc.. It's hard to hold that against Brownlee, and I too would like to see him have an opportunity to recruit with the new arena and a renewed commitment to the program. That too is somewhat of a problem; how long does a coach get to show achieve the goals and produce a winner? 5 years is a pretty long time to go without it, no matter how bad things were when he got here. I like Brownlee a lot, but at some point, even if he is a victim of circumstances, you need a new direction, some new blood. I do think it's too early to look in that direction now, but if we are serious about basketball, there has to be an expectation to win at some point, and that point can't be too far off.
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110%er [7913]
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agreed...not much else to add to that***
Jan 26, 2014, 8:55 PM
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Amateur [42]
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Re: I agree pretty much. I think Brownell is an excellent coach,
Jan 26, 2014, 9:08 PM
[ in reply to I agree pretty much. I think Brownell is an excellent coach, ] |
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Recruiting well and winning can be done here. I've watched Clemson basketball for more than 40 years. Reverse chronology: OP won and each of his teams got better; Rick Barnes won for three years; Cliff Ellis had several good teams, including a regular-season title and a team that should have made the Final Four except UConn got a couple of extra seconds; even Bill Foster almost went to the Final Four; And Tates Locke (for what it's worth) had teams that packed Littlejohn. ... It can be done.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Absolutely it can be done. We may never be a top 10 team
Jan 26, 2014, 9:19 PM
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year-in-year-out, but our goal should be to win the ACC from time to time and to be competitive with the best teams most years. If we aren't aiming that high, then I'm serious when I say just scrap the basketball program and save the money. Admit defeat, and roll over into the fetal position. I think Clemson is better than that. We can have a good basketball program. Those that don't believe it have just been beat down so far for so long they don't know any better, and they are buying a bill of goods.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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No ... Barnes and Purnell's teams got worse, not better ...
Jan 26, 2014, 9:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: I agree pretty much. I think Brownell is an excellent coach, ] |
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Their last teams were considerably worse than their earlier squads. Same for Cliff Ellis and Bill Foster before them. Programs on a downward trend on their way out of Clemson.
Clemson is a school where a coach recruits some projects, finds a diamond in the rough, and coaches them up for three years until the shine as seniors and then he starts over.
That's the way every coach has done it and changing the formula will be a monumental task.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I learned I'm ready for some football!!!!***
Jan 26, 2014, 9:00 PM
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CU Guru [1788]
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Re: So, what did we learn tonight
Jan 26, 2014, 9:02 PM
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I agree and I will take where we are any day of the week, this stretch is brutal and I'm not looking forward to Saturday's game, but we have some wins left on the schedule. We just need to take care of business at home and steal a couple games on the road.
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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I learned a few things from Tnet morans
Jan 26, 2014, 9:27 PM
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Brownell is not as good as JuCo coaches
Shaka Smart would coach at Clemson, given the chance
We should blow up Littlejohn and use it for DV parking
Clemson needs to get rid of the basketball program
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110%er [6101]
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We learned........
Jan 26, 2014, 9:32 PM
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You can't punt in Basketball. Even when you want to.
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Legend [16240]
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That we're not ready to win in Chapel Hill yet.
Jan 26, 2014, 9:42 PM
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We're not an NCAA tourney team this year, but we're going to be better than most had us picked for. No ACC team has ever faced as tough of a road stretch as we're facing right now, in the history of the league. Ask Tim Bourret if you don't believe it. Winning only one road game out of this stretch would be solid and leave us over .500 in the league with a very favorable finishing lineup. Yeah we've lost some ugly games to the better teams, but we've also played well against good teams. Seems to be more of an energy and focus thing than talent to explain the routs of late. A lot of season left.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: So, what did we learn tonight
Jan 27, 2014, 7:54 AM
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Hall CAN be a fine player. He has speed, decent ball handling skills and can shoot but unfortunately he refuses to shoot the ball. If he attempted more shots he would make some and then the defender would move upon him at which point he has the speed to blow by him and create a 5 on 4 going to the basket.
If I were the HC he would not play until he starts to shoot when he is open and within range.
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CU Guru [1898]
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I learned that it has been 88 years
Jan 28, 2014, 12:44 AM
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of frustration in Chapel Hole.
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