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Scout Team [170]
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Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 7:19 PM
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If this is the case, and “god can find his children even if they are in Saudi Arabia” does that mean his love works at a statistical rate? e.g. he favors the southern states of america but dislikes say india or east asia?
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 7:25 PM
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Why only “southern America states”? Why not northern state’s? Please don’t tell me it’s only southern Middle Ages white males that believes in Christ!
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Scout Team [170]
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Well the northeast is more catholic and we all
Apr 2, 2020, 7:32 PM
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Know they aren’t real christians
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Lot o points [180810]
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Scout Team [170]
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What about ‘em
Apr 2, 2020, 7:36 PM
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African Americans tend to be more religious than whites which further bolsters my theory that he likes some groups more than others
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Lot o points [180810]
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ok, just making sure.***
Apr 2, 2020, 7:37 PM
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: What about ‘em
Apr 2, 2020, 7:49 PM
[ in reply to What about ‘em ] |
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African Americans tend to be more religious than whites which further bolsters my theory that he likes some groups more than others
Being brainwashed at an early age must have sucked. Not having control of your own brain activity has to be terrible!
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Scout Team [170]
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lmao, I grew very christian/ conservative so
Apr 2, 2020, 7:50 PM
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Yeah, you hit the nail on the head.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: lmao, I grew very christian/ conservative so
Apr 2, 2020, 8:19 PM
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No one said you made the best choices. You chose racism and hatred. Your parents must be proud!
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: lmao, I grew very christian/ conservative so
Apr 2, 2020, 8:43 PM
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You really do like making things up i guess
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 8:16 PM
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The Bible does say narrow is the path. So you’re really just confirming what it says unknowingly.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 9:26 PM
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Reread my question: I’m asking if he does it at a statistical rate. Sure if it was like 1% of people uniformly distributed across cultures that would be quite compelling evidence.
But the fact that the distribution pretty much lines up with what you’d expect (e.g. muslims in the middle east, hindu in india, christians in america, etc) it just seems like a function of where you born. It’s not impossible of course for an indian born person to be christian but the reverse is also true.
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 9:32 PM
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I’m not sure what your point is. None of this disproves the Christian worldview. If you remember Jesus was supposedly born in the Middle East. So that would mean that region of the world could have been majority Christian if they hadn’t rejected.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 9:39 PM
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Well no, I didn’t suppose it would.
There are other direct contradictions to biblical claims though, this was more of a thought experiment. Just seeing what people think
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 10:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead ] |
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Reread my question: I’m asking if he does it at a statistical rate. Sure if it was like 1% of people uniformly distributed across cultures that would be quite compelling evidence.
But the fact that the distribution pretty much lines up with what you’d expect (e.g. muslims in the middle east, hindu in india, christians in america, etc) it just seems like a function of where you born. It’s not impossible of course for an indian born person to be christian but the reverse is also true.
Let’s talk percentages. Roughly 2.5 billion people on the face of this earth is Christian. That’s what? Around 32% . How in the world are there more Christians in the U.S then anywhere when the U.S has only about 15 million? If you are trying to say that the majority of the U.S is Christian then you would be correct, but no where near it in the world. Man you have a lot of people to convince that it’s all fiction...Good luck!
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 10:11 PM
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I don’t follow, i think you are confused
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 10:18 PM
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My point is that it is more widespread than you think. In the Middle East you have a whole big jumble of multiple religions, Most of the Christians left to spread then word of God and the teachings of Jesus. That’s why Christianity holds a higher percentage over all religions. While other religions stayed in a localized place, Christianity spread.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 10:35 PM
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Is that true? Christianity is the only religion that spread across multiple regions?
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 10:41 PM
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Is that true? Christianity is the only religion that spread across multiple regions?
Noooooooo, it is more widely spread and accepted across the world. Numbers don’t lie
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 3, 2020, 9:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead ] |
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You’ve already been shown that it pretty much is but I’ll lead the donkey to water one more time. The interesting thing is, according to the Bible the messiah would be rejected by his own, but be the light to the gentiles, and this map clearly shows that happened. The New Testament was circulating by the end of the first century, was it just a lucky guess that 2,000 years later this Jewish carpenter from an insignificant village would be worshipped by people all across the globe?
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Scout Team [170]
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facepalm...
Apr 3, 2020, 10:07 AM
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Sigh...
I don't know how to make my point any clearer. Look at your map. Now look at China.
If you were born there, you PROBABLY won't become a Christian and therefore will go to hell. Call that a choice if you want but I don't see much of a choice there.
I don't know what point you are trying to argue but for the topic I'm talking about, where you are born greatly influences where you end up (heaven/hell). Granted, I think that's all bs but trying to go within your logic. The simple explanation is that you believe what you grow up with and then you die and then... nothing really happens. It was just religion.
So, using your term, I'll lead the donkey to water one more time.
Born in a purple area on that map: Great chance!
Born in a heathen colored area: No so much...
So getting into heaven is just one giant crapshoot!
FWIW, that map is more than a bit misleading....
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: facepalm...
Apr 3, 2020, 10:24 AM
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Do you really think we’re all too stupid to understand your simple point?
Yes, you have a pretty good chance of believing what you’re taught as a child. But if you assume that the Christian worldview is correct the blame for that kid in India being raised Muslim wouldn’t fall on God, it would fall on his parents and their ancestors for rejecting Christ. That is why the Bible says:
“These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.”
I guess if you were God, you would have created a world where the choices we make as parents do not affect our kids?
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: facepalm...
Apr 3, 2020, 10:31 AM
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> Do you really think we’re all too stupid to understand your simple point?
Based on the responses? Yeah kinda.
> Yes, you have a pretty good chance of believing what you’re taught as a child. But if you assume that the Christian worldview is correct the blame for that kid in India being raised Muslim wouldn’t fall on God, it would fall on his parents and their ancestors for rejecting Christ. That is why the Bible says:
Well there's your problem. Your worldview is wrong 
btw, that's super ###### that you could end up in hell because your parents are stupid... think about that one more closely for like 2 seconds.
> I guess if you were God, you would have created a world where the choices we make as parents do not affect our kids?
I would not send kids to hell for their parents choices no. I never said there were no consequences but hell seems just a bit harsh for listening to your parents no?
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: facepalm...
Apr 3, 2020, 10:50 AM
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Maybe the Christian worldview is wrong, but you are posing the question as if it is true. You‘re saying if God’s system works this way, it makes no sense and is unfair. It’s not unfair if you assume Jesus really was the son of God. The blame then falls squarely on the people of that region for rejecting Him and your argument collapses.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: facepalm...
Apr 3, 2020, 10:29 AM
[ in reply to facepalm... ] |
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Sigh...
I don't know how to make my point any clearer. Look at your map. Now look at China.
If you were born there, you PROBABLY won't become a Christian and therefore will go to ####. Call that a choice if you want but I don't see much of a choice there.
I don't know what point you are trying to argue but for the topic I'm talking about, where you are born greatly influences where you end up (heaven/####). Granted, I think that's all bs but trying to go within your logic. The simple explanation is that you believe what you grow up with and then you die and then... nothing really happens. It was just religion.
So, using your term, I'll lead the donkey to water one more time.
Born in a purple area on that map: Great chance!
Born in a heathen colored area: No so much...
So getting into heaven is just one giant crapshoot!
FWIW, that map is more than a bit misleading....
No, just because you are born in a certain area doesn’t mean you are going to heII. You are then categorized as being of the unknowing. You won’t be judged by God if you are uneducated, uninformed or if you aren’t of the age of accountability. Now if you are a certain age and you have the mental capacity to acknowledge the word of God and are informed of the Lord’s teachings by others, then you are accountable and will be judged accordingly. It’s a simple as that and it is stated as such in the text.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: facepalm...
Apr 3, 2020, 11:29 AM
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> No, just because you are born in a certain area doesn’t mean you are going to heII. You are then categorized as being of the unknowing. You won’t be judged by God if you are uneducated, uninformed or if you aren’t of the age of accountability. Now if you are a certain age and you have the mental capacity to acknowledge the word of God and are informed of the Lord’s teachings by others, then you are accountable and will be judged accordingly. It’s a simple as that and it is stated as such in the text.
show me.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: facepalm...
Apr 3, 2020, 12:44 PM
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Deuteronomy 1:39
Verse Concepts
'Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it.
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Scout Team [170]
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Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 3, 2020, 1:43 PM
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 3, 2020, 2:52 PM
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Aren’t they saying the same thing? John is New Testament and Deuteronomy is the old. You would think If the same words are spoken in old and New Testament the rule wouldn’t change. Especially when it comes to salvation .
Look at it like this, if you have and old road with no speed signs and a newly built road with no speed signs and the law that is written says that all roads without signs are 55 miles per hour or you will be fined $1000, are they not the same law with the same fine? Don’t try to outthink yourself.
You could ask questions until your last dying breath and never receive a satisfying answer. Not because an answer wasn’t provided, it would be that you failed to receive or acknowledge one. That’s no ones else fault but your own.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 3, 2020, 3:08 PM
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It was mostly a snarky reply on my part.
> You could ask questions until your last dying breath and never receive a satisfying answer. Not because an answer wasn’t provided, it would be that you failed to receive or acknowledge one. That’s no ones else fault but your own.
This is what's so mindblowing to me, for some reason I'm supposed to just accept what Christians say as truth but not other religions. If I gave you the exact same spiel for another religion you'd have zero problems rejecting the claim, yet I am "not acknowledging" yours.
That makes no sense. It would be so easy to back up your claims if there was anything to it, but alas, there is not.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 3, 2020, 5:33 PM
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No one is “forcing” you to Believe in anything. That’s why it’s called free will. Do or don’t it’s your choice. I’ve answered all your questions as also everyone else. Find out for yourself. It is no ones responsibly to make up your mind fella. It sounds like you are asking people to make your mind up for you? That’s not free will.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 3, 2020, 5:42 PM
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lol i already know religion is bs, I’m not trying to “make up my mind” on that. It’s clear that all religions are mythical.
I’m on a politics and religion board to talk, you know, politics and religion. Its fun to banter with opposing views.
Btw, i am certainly willing to change my mind on pretty much anything given a good reason. But religious arguments are about as weak as they get. It all amounts to “just believe” and don't ask too many questions.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 3, 2020, 6:33 PM
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lol i already know religion is bs, I’m not trying to “make up my mind” on that. It’s clear that all religions are mythical.
I’m on a politics and religion board to talk, you know, politics and religion. Its fun to banter with opposing views.
Btw, i am certainly willing to change my mind on pretty much anything given a good reason. But religious arguments are about as weak as they get. It all amounts to “just believe” and don't ask too many questions.
I guess it’s just 2.2 billion plus who believes in a mythical religion with evidence or not. Good luck finding whatever answer it is you are looking for.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 3, 2020, 6:54 PM
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Listen to your own argument, most people don’t by the christian worldview which is more than 2.2 billion, so yeah, it’s quite easy to believe people will believe stuff without evidence
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Orange Blooded [3034]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 5, 2020, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament*** ] |
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There is no answer anyone here can give that will satisify you. Your not searching for truth or even to genuinely understand how or why Christains believe as they do. Paul says in 1 Corinthians that the worldly man gets nothing from the Sprit of God because it is foolishness to him. It's a matter of faith and we all have faith is something. For the believer, that's scripture. For you, it's your own wisdom. Good luck with that. You want to engage in a back and forth to demonstrate how smart you are for your unbelief. I'm usually very relectant to engage with people who have your views becauses nothing good comes from it. There is nothing I or any believer can say that will change your heart. I'm equally certain there is nothing you'll post that will lead a believer to conclude, hey maybe that guy on TNET is right and the Bible is wrong.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 5, 2020, 11:11 AM
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> here is no answer anyone here can give that will satisify you.
Well yeah... that's because there is nothing to what you're selling. There are however very satisfying answers out there they just don't involve anything supernatural.
>It's a matter of faith and we all have faith is something.
No, we don't, that's just something religious people say. I don't tend to believe things without evidence which is what faith literally means.
>For the believer, that's scripture. For you, it's your own wisdom. Good luck with that.
Again no, I don't rely on my own wisdom, I just tend to rely on experts not on some moron in the pulpit who believes in talking snakes
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Orange Blooded [3034]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 5, 2020, 2:44 PM
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Why do you ask for answers when you have already determined there's "nothing to" religion? Wouldn't it be more noble to just accept some people have different views? As for believing things for which there is no evidence, I'm not sure what evidence would convince you. I suspect nothing would. For the Christian, there is ample evidence for the existence of God....it's in creation and our very lives. You can't understand or accept that - see Paul's comments in 1 Corinthians - but it doesn't mean it's not real.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 5, 2020, 4:14 PM
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> Why do you ask for answers when you have already determined there's "nothing to" religion?
Because I'm curious? It's a pretty wild difference in worldview so it's fun to pick other people brains a bit.
> Wouldn't it be more noble to just accept some people have different views?
Sure, but this is a P&R forum, that's what it's for. I'm curious why you don't ask me the same thing regarding political (or other) beliefs. You guys scream about free speech until someone questions your religion.
> As for believing things for which there is no evidence, I'm not sure what evidence would convince you.
Oh please, this would be so simple. How about, oh I don't know, a burning bush talking to me, maybe a talking snake, or heck, Jesus showing up an having a chat.
Ask yourself this, how would the world look if the bible is was just a myth? I suspect it would look exactly as it does today, everything occurs naturally and there is no evidence for the supernatural.
> For the Christian, there is ample evidence for the existence of God....it's in creation and our very lives.
Like male #######? I'm serious, god created man with non-functioning mammary glands... why? The simple answer is that he didn't, we evolved naturally and that removes any confusion.
> You can't understand or accept that - see Paul's comments in 1 Corinthians - but it doesn't mean it's not real.
Or, hear me out, you've been indoctrinated to believe this stuff without question. Religion breaks down under the smallest amount of scrutiny.
What's more likely, that I just "can't understand" ancient mythical text and the cornerstone of modern biology is wrong or that you just believe what you grew up with?
I realize you aren't going to just "change your mind", changing your whole worldview is not easy I know from experience. But I am free to discuss this on the P&R board so.. get over it I guess? Maybe stop being such a snowflake when someone questions your ideas?
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Orange Blooded [3034]
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Re: Wait so we do or don't listen to the old testament***
Apr 5, 2020, 4:44 PM
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As I said in my initial response to you, I'm not going to change your beliefs and you're not changing mine.
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Scout Team [170]
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I realize this...
Apr 5, 2020, 4:46 PM
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I'm willing to change my mind based on new info, apparently, you are not.
Have a great day
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: facepalm...
Apr 3, 2020, 1:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: facepalm... ] |
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John 9:41
Verse Concepts
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 9:07 PM
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Respectfully, I disagree with your initial characterization. God is what God is, man creates all the confusion. Religion can be a terrible thing, but that isn't God's fault, it's man's. How God is characterized by different peoples is a man thing, not a God thing.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Question re: spiritually alive/dead
Apr 2, 2020, 9:27 PM
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So where does the confusion get cleared up? I assume you got your opinion from another man so how are you so confident this is the case?
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Legend [17854]
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To answer your questiion - No
Apr 2, 2020, 9:54 PM
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"...that [whosoever] believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
To remove the responsibility to "share" the Good News of Jesus does not mean one has removed the accountability to do so.
At any rate - the good news is for ALL who will believe. So, if you wish to quantify it, then you could say God wishes for 100% to be saved.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: To answer your questiion - No
Apr 2, 2020, 9:59 PM
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The point is that, statistically, it looks like it is more of s function of where you were born.
Am I wrong? Do people in the middle east simply not “choose” Christianity or do they just follow what they grew up around? The latter seems to be the case right?
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Legend [15492]
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Re: To answer your questiion - No
Apr 2, 2020, 10:28 PM
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The point is that, statistically, it looks like it is more of s function of where you were born.
Am I wrong? Do people in the middle east simply not “choose” Christianity or do they just follow what they grew up around? The latter seems to be the case right?
That is a fair question. My answer is I don't know. Only God knows how this will all be cleared up. Frankly, I think that all religion is an attempt to describe the unknowable God.
But I would suggest you look at it another way. Why are there so many religions? Why do so many, unconnected, never involved with each other, ALL attempt to describe God. The American Indians had a description of God, the Chinese, the Assyrians, the Acadians, the South American Indians. All had a knowledge of God before they had any contact with the outside world.
Why? If there is no God, how did unconnected people ALL claim knowledge of the existence of God?
That, is the better question.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: To answer your questiion - No
Apr 3, 2020, 11:46 AM
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Could it not simply be because humans are curious and they didn't have the tools at the time to understand the nature of reality?
I mean, it is very reasonable to think that divine beings are doing things if you don't understand the natural causes behind them.
Sure, a lot of people claim knowledge of god/gods but curiously none of them have proof. I bet you don't and I bet nobody else does either.
Nobody actually hears from him or anything like that. The brain is very powerful and you can convince yourself of a lot of things.
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Legend [17854]
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Re: To answer your questiion - No
Apr 2, 2020, 11:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: To answer your questiion - No ] |
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You do realize that Christianity began on that side of the world? And, how many people do you think accept the Good News of Jesus Christ over there as compared to the USofA these days?
And when did Christianity become the faith of the "infidels"?
I know you would like to use some statistic to prove a point about there being no God - or that God is bad, bad, bad... not so good as portrayed and His plan is manipulative and add anything else you wish. Truth is, man rejects God - God does not reject man.
Man rejects God in many ways. He might determine that he has a better way to explain God. Or, maybe, he "believes" he has a better plan that suites the needs of people like himself. Whatever it might be, it is man that always looks for the excuse, or the next best "thing", or what is popular, or what makes him feel the best about himself.... but it is man that rejects God. Even with his statistics.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: To answer your questiion - No
Apr 3, 2020, 9:15 AM
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> You do realize that Christianity began on that side of the world? And, how many people do you think accept the Good News of Jesus Christ over there as compared to the USofA these days?
Of course it did, I didn't say otherwise. It's an impressive growth of an idea no doubt. I feel like you are completely missing the point of what I'm saying though. :shrug:
>I know you would like to use some statistic to prove a point about there being no God - or that God is bad, bad, bad... not so good as portrayed and His plan is manipulative and add anything else you wish. Truth is, man rejects God - God does not reject man.
I'm not "rejecting" god any more than I am "rejecting" astrology, healing crystals or anything else supernatural. There is simply no reason to believe it's anything other than myth
> Man rejects God in many ways. He might determine that he has a better way to explain God. Or, maybe, he "believes" he has a better plan that suites the needs of people like himself. Whatever it might be, it is man that always looks for the excuse, or the next best "thing", or what is popular, or what makes him feel the best about himself.... but it is man that rejects God. Even with his statistics.
Think about why you think this. It's because you were probably told this as a child by your parents or someone in the pulpit. You aren't basing this on anything grounded in critical thought, it's just a belief you have, nothing more.
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110%er [8876]
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Re: To answer your questiion - No
Apr 3, 2020, 9:47 AM
[ in reply to To answer your questiion - No ] |
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i have always wondered, did Judas have a chance to be saved
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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Are there not Chinese spread all over Europe?
Apr 3, 2020, 8:28 AM
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Are there not Australians in Russia and Russians in Mexico? This isn't about where you are if you're a Christian it's about your origin, where you came from. Are Russian not still Russian just because they are temporarily in Brazil?
Those who believe in Christ are from Heaven. We had spiritual life before we realized it and some don't understand it still. It's not a test. There is no long fillin the blanks or writing assignment. It's a simple question which doesn't require a response.
Do you have a living spirit within? Do you? Not without Christ you don't.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: Are there not Chinese spread all over Europe?
Apr 3, 2020, 9:22 AM
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Holy missing the point batman.
The point is that cleary you are more or less likely to be a "spiritual child" based on where you are from. There are objectively more Christians from certain backgrounds than others. same with other religions.
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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You are ignoring the obvious.
Apr 3, 2020, 9:35 AM
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Christians came from Heaven. Russian from Russia, Chinese from China.
You must ignore that to be able to continue in your confusion. Great spiritual leaders have come from all across the globe. God's put His children everywhere to lead other of His children to the Truth.
What part of 'everything happened at a point called time in God's perspective,' are you not able to comprehend? You want to discuss it but you refuse to consider anything but your finite opinion.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: You are ignoring the obvious.
Apr 3, 2020, 9:47 AM
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> Russian from Russia, Chinese from China.
Right, I'm following
> Christians came from Heaven.
Quite the claim you got there, I'd bet you can't back it up? (as an aside, this implies that you were in heaven before getting here, is this something you remember)
> What part of 'everything happened at a point called time in God's perspective,' are you not able to comprehend? You want to discuss it but you refuse to consider anything but your finite opinion.
Are you telling me that you, ct88, are able to understand God's infinite perspective and that I simply don't understand it or can't comprehend it?
What is more likely, that I am not looking at things from God's perspective or that you are simply indoctrinated by religion? You reject basic biology by saying things like people came directly from heaven so it's kind of hard to follow your (lack of) logic.
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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Re: You are ignoring the obvious.
Apr 3, 2020, 10:13 AM
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There are two spirits working in Christians. IDK about you. Christians have the same spirit as you have working in working in us, the spirit of man. Christians also have the Holy Spirit birthed in our hearts.
Wade through this:
1 Cor chpt 2
"10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
Ask.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: You are ignoring the obvious.
Apr 3, 2020, 11:47 AM
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ok but you are showing me a verse written by man, why should I believe it's divinely inspired? Why do you think it is?
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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If you want to know about heroin addiction you can...
Apr 3, 2020, 2:31 PM
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read about it in medical reports or talk to doctors. If you really want to know about it go find a junkie, build rapport, ask questions or most of all just watch his actions over a period of time. I have 50 years of experience with God, I know the Bible is His Written Word and I know Jesus is His Spoken Word.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: If you want to know about heroin addiction you can...
Apr 3, 2020, 2:52 PM
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> I have 50 years of experience with God,
I don't believe that for one second. You know why? I used to say a very similar thing to my non-christian friends. I would say things like "I know he exists because I have a relationship with him and I talk to him"
Obviously, I now realize I was just deluded.
All I am hearing is that I'm not allowed to use my brain to think critically about the nature of reality. I have to just believe someone like you who has supposedly talked to god for 50 years.
Like, do you literally hear his voice? Do you meet with him and have coffee? Or is it more likely that you're just talking to yourself...
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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My grandmother lived across the street from Ivy Boles.
Apr 3, 2020, 7:07 PM
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Ms Boles was about 70 when I was barely double digits. I remember her pretty well because she had a bed of red worms and always welcomed us to dig for worms for fishing. Electricity had been around a long time in the 1960s but Ms Boles still used wood/coal to cook and stay warm and lamps which burned kero or as we called it back then coaloil.
I asked her about electricity one day and she said she didn't believe in it. I didn't really understand it but I knew it would light a room and make a TV or radio play. I guess I believed in electricity because I saw it work, saw what it could do and knew something I didn't understand was happening.
Ms Boles had a strong belief. That didn't change the fact that when I flipped a switch the room lit up. Your belief has no bearing on the truth of God. The truth is not relative to you. Evidently, you're not relative to the truth either.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: My grandmother lived across the street from Ivy Boles.
Apr 3, 2020, 7:45 PM
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> Your belief has no bearing on the truth
I 100% agree with you there! That's what is so great about science, my beliefs have nothing to do with the results. It's hard to argue with hard data.
> The truth is not relative to you. Evidently, you're not relative to the truth either.
A bit ironic coming from you, since you are asserting a fantastic claim just because you believe it.
You can say what you want about me but I value data/evidence and I suspect you do as well in every other area in your life. I am not picking on religion in this regard either, I would be pretty skeptical of any grand claims without evidence.
Do you know something? I bet Ms. Boles changed her tune when you flipped on the light (i.e. presented her with evidence to believe it), otherwise, it's totally understandable that she would find that claim ridiculous.
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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So what's the game, llort?
Apr 4, 2020, 7:32 AM
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Science is constantly changing. Of all the knowable facts or information in universe what percentage do you think man has right now? Venture a guess or at least consider how small we are, how limited our understand of our own world is and how little we understand about the universe.
When you estimate the percentage we know about all information in the universe please use scientific notation so I won't have to count zeros past the decimal point. Thanks.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: So what's the game, llort?
Apr 4, 2020, 11:54 AM
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> Science is constantly changing. Of all the knowable facts or information in the universe, what percentage do you think man has right now? Venture a guess or at least consider how small we are, how limited our understanding of our own world is and how little we understand about the universe.
I never claimed that we know everything or even a significant percentage of what there is to know about the universe. But by you saying "science is constantly changing" you are implying that we can't rely on its findings which is simply not the case.
You and I are able to communicate like this because of the findings of science.
Sure, science is discovering new things and improving on things all the time but we aren't going to suddenly find that the world is actually flat, that vaccines don't work or evolution didn't happen. Of course, nothing is ever 100% but you can make reasonable claims once the evidence gets to a certain point.
Like sure, it's POSSIBLE that the world is actually flat and this is all some huge conspiracy but that is so ridiculously unlikely as not to be believed.
>When you estimate the percentage we know about all information in the universe please use scientific notation so I won't have to count zeros past the decimal point. Thanks.
I really don't understand your argument here though. Everything there is to know includes religion so doesn't this hurt your claim just a much?
Saying God exists isn't a testable claim. He apparently doesn't like to show up much after the old testament so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to go on here other than taking your word for it.
Science flies us to the moon, religion flies us into buildings...
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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One thing is certain here.
Apr 4, 2020, 2:03 PM
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When someone answers a question which hasn't been asked or makes a statement in reply to a question which has nothing to do with answering the question they are clueless.
Just give us your best guess as to the percentage of what we know about the universe in relationship to how much is knowable and stop dodging the truth.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: One thing is certain here.
Apr 4, 2020, 3:59 PM
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Best guess would be an infinitesimally small number, it's a huge universe.
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: You are ignoring the obvious.
Apr 3, 2020, 3:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: You are ignoring the obvious. ] |
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There are several things that point to it’s divine nature:
The unity of the scriptures. 40 different authors over 1600 years and the story unfolds perfectly. The Old Testament points to Jesus in many different places and there is plenty of proof that he lived and fulfilled prophecy. Name one historical figure from ancient history that we have 4 complete biographies written within a few decades of their lifetime and multiple other writings that support those biographies.
The historical accuracy of the books of the Bible is another. Not one archaeological finding has disproven an event or person it mentions.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: You are ignoring the obvious.
Apr 3, 2020, 7:52 PM
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> the story unfolds perfectly.
That's a dubious claim, what do you mean it "unfolds perfectly"? It's not hard to imagine the writers building off the previous scriptures. If it's a work of fiction, you can say whatever the heck you want. Also, you are conveniently leaving out the books that weren't canonized. I guess those other ones just didn't fit the narrative properly...
> The Old Testament points to Jesus in many different places and there is plenty of proof that he lived and fulfilled prophecy.
Two things:
1. Sure, Jesus was pointed to in the Old Testament, no argument there
2. Are you going to back up that claim of "plenty of proof" or are you just going to assert it?
> The historical accuracy of the books of the Bible is another. Not one archaeological finding has disproven an event or person it mentions.
I don't know that your claim is true but regardless, you can't prove a negative. If a figure in the bible never existed how exactly would you "disprove" that?
Also, I don't doubt at all that there are historical accuracies in the bible. Of course, there are. My problem is that it says things like snakes and donkey's talked, the walls of Jericho were knocked down by trumpets, people were turned into pillars of salt, etc etc etc... now if there is a shred of evidence for any of that stuff I'm all ears.
I don't even doubt that Jesus existed I just don't think he was supernatural.
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: You are ignoring the obvious.
Apr 4, 2020, 9:12 AM
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I'm not as well studied on the canonization of the Old Testament, but the early Christians were very meticulous about which books they considered authentic when it came to The New Testament. From early church fathers writing around the turn of the first century we know that they had 3 criteria:
1. The book had to be written by an apostle or someone who had access to an apostle. Matthew and John were disciples of Jesus and Luke and Mark were friends of Paul and Peter. Paul's writings are actually dated earlier than the gospels and they contain the earliest information about Jesus.
2.Recognition by the church. A lot of people will claim The New Testament wasn't canonized until Constantine 300 years after Christ. In reality, these books were circulating among the early church within 20-30 years after Jesus lived and had long been officially recognized as scripture.
3. The content of the books had to agree with other accepted writings. There was only one writing that had anything close to a strong claim to be included and that was the Gospel of Thomas but it was too late and contained hints of Gnosticism which was considered heretic by the earliest and those closest to Jesus.
As far as the stories you mentioned from the Old Testament, no there is no proof that any of those things literally happened. But that doesn't mean the writers were not truthfully trying to get a point across. A lot of the early church fathers took a more allegorical approach to the Old Testament.
As for the walls of Jericho falling, there is archaeological proof that it happened exactly like the Bible describes. If you are truly interested check out the Patterns of Evidence series that examines the evidence for the Exodus and conquest of Canaan.
https://patternsofevidence.com/
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: You are ignoring the obvious.
Apr 5, 2020, 11:39 AM
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I hear you but I've already gone down that rabbit hole about a decade ago looking for evidence to back up my faith. I'm not sure if patterns of evidence is along the same one I looked up but it appears to be along the same lines as what I'm looking for. It just wasn't convincing.
Furthermore, I don't see why this kind of thing would convince you that the bible is real but hard evidence for evolution (that you can see for yourself) doesn't sway you at all.
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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How much faith did you have?***
Apr 5, 2020, 5:12 PM
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: How much faith did you have?***
Apr 5, 2020, 5:43 PM
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lol, was that my problem, i just didn’t “faith” hard enough?
What a crock.
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