Replies: 81
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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CU Medallion [54758]
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Re: Trump wants Bible classes in school
Jan 29, 2019, 10:23 AM
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Orange Blooded [3389]
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Re: Trump wants Bible classes in school
Jan 29, 2019, 10:37 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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While we're getting revolutionary
Jan 29, 2019, 10:39 AM
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Why not teach high school kids how to balance a checkbook, withhold for taxes, insurance costs and requirements, and explain to them exactly how credit card companies and banks make money.
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All-In [46825]
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^^^^ this before Bible classes***
Jan 29, 2019, 10:42 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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Amazing how financially illeterate the vast majority of
Jan 29, 2019, 10:47 AM
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citizens are in the wealthiest country on Earth. You would think financial management would be something at least taught in schools to SOME extent. I have a college degree and was never taught anything I mentioned in school. K-BA degree. Heck, in my major I could have a PhD and still not have ever been instructed on how to balance a checkbook or even WRITE a check.
And if you're naive enough to think this omission from America's education curriculum is an accident, think again. Our financial system runs (in large part) on the financial ignorance of the masses. Educate them BEFORE they go out and make mistakes as young adults, and our whole financial system will change.
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All-In [46825]
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in Facebook class we teach budgeting.
Jan 29, 2019, 10:52 AM
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also, who the #### writes a check anymore?
I can understand teaching how to use a spread sheet to take expenses and compare it to your budget allotment.
But why do these kids (who don't even know what a check is) need to balance a checkbook?
The biggest item that needs to be taught is interest.
Those that understand interest are paid in it. Those that don't understand interest pay it.
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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Then balance their checking account.
Jan 29, 2019, 10:55 AM
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Set up a checking account. Manage lines of credit. Interest rates, that's something good to teach. Inflation. All the costs associated with things like houses, cars, running a business, etc. that most people don't think about.
Heck, budgeting is not as important as spending. Teach the ins and outs associated with spending and ownership of assets, and budgeting will take care of itself.
Message was edited by: Tiggity®
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All-In [46825]
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We go over budgeting.
Jan 29, 2019, 10:58 AM
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then we go to playspend.com where they have to go 30 days without running out of money. Really teaches them about how every choice you make will impact your checking account.
Adding another activity in this year where you set a budget then have to live on the budget. It's a program somebody is bringing in.
Frankly you have 9 weeks to get through supply, demand, price, equilibrium, trade-offs, opportunity costs, ect.
Not much time for anything.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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OverBudgeting - sounds like a medal event in the
Jan 29, 2019, 10:59 AM
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UDP Olympics
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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I'm sure the important stuff is being skipped
Jan 29, 2019, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to We go over budgeting. ] |
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Like going to algebra from addition and subtraction while skipping multiplication and division. The basics. Heck, I'd vote that every American child read the FIRST CHAPTER of Das Kapital. They can stop after that because Marx goes off the cliff, but when he lays out the basics of money, he's spot on. I mean, kids don't think of money as labor.
Anyway, just a pet peeve of mine. I'm glad they're teaching something....
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CU Medallion [54758]
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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I write several a week.***
Jan 29, 2019, 11:07 AM
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All-In [26968]
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The only ones I write are to my church...
Jan 29, 2019, 11:22 AM
[ in reply to I wrote a check the other day ] |
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Don't have electronic giving (yet).
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Scout Team [165]
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Re: in Facebook class we teach budgeting.
Jan 30, 2019, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to in Facebook class we teach budgeting. ] |
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"Those that understand interest are paid in it. Those that don't understand interest pay it."
Quote of the day!!!! Should teach that along with dividends. My son is 9 years old and I show him a brokerage account I set up when he was little every 6 months when we get a payout. Teaching him that this is how you can pay for a college education without taking out huge loans.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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Banks and credit card companies would
Jan 29, 2019, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to While we're getting revolutionary ] |
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lobby against this. Not to mention those title swap loan places....they don't need no financially woke chirruns out there.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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Exactly. A smart politician could jump on this
Jan 29, 2019, 10:49 AM
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Want to close the wealth inequality gap, this is one of the best ways.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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They don't actually want to close it. They want to talk
Jan 29, 2019, 11:26 AM
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about it not being closed.
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Orange Blooded [2429]
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Re: While we're getting revolutionary
Jan 29, 2019, 11:14 AM
[ in reply to While we're getting revolutionary ] |
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We can't teach kids this because we are too busy indoctrinating them into the Democratic Social/communist party of the US instead. Just don't have the time.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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More important than that...
Jan 29, 2019, 11:25 AM
[ in reply to While we're getting revolutionary ] |
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taking initiative, taking responsibility for themselves, critical thinking and learning how to communicate effectively.
School is whiffing on all those things.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: While we're getting revolutionary
Jan 29, 2019, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to While we're getting revolutionary ] |
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I don’t think I could come up with a more worthless list of things to know.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: While we're getting revolutionary
Jan 29, 2019, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to While we're getting revolutionary ] |
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People always argue this as if it’s a magic bullet.
Poor people are bad with money not because they can’t budget but because they don’t have the money to budget.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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If I'd only been in maybe 10 run down trailers with sagging
Jan 29, 2019, 8:56 PM
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Floors and leaking roofs with a brand new Youkon Denali with 4K rims and a 75inch TV and a top of the line smart phone used by the owner, and 5 kids with tattered clothes and no food to eat..... I'd tend to agree with you. But sadly the number is far greater than 10.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Trump wants Bible classes in school
Jan 29, 2019, 10:39 AM
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That would be cool if Trump came in and taught a few classes himself as a guest teacher here and there to spread the word. The Bible is his favorite book and I am sure he could teach the subjects well.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Trump wants Bible classes in school
Jan 29, 2019, 11:36 AM
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I don’t know....he’s well versed in “Two” Corinthians but he obviously hasn’t learned the golden rule or the 8th commandment (thall shall not lie) yet.
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All-In [46825]
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or the one about adultery***
Jan 29, 2019, 11:41 AM
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Heisman Winner [111575]
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how about we teach critical thinking instead,
Jan 29, 2019, 10:40 AM
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so that the first topic becomes no longer relevant.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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So, this was a good post.***
Jan 29, 2019, 11:29 AM
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Legend [15216]
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I love the Facebook posts by these 60 yr old women
Jan 29, 2019, 10:52 AM
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that say stuff like, "God Bless Trump and his Christian values" regarding this idea.
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110%er [7207]
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Extra credit to kids who live in a whale's belly for 3 days!***
Jan 29, 2019, 10:58 AM
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All-In [26968]
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I don't want public schools anywhere near a Bible.
Jan 29, 2019, 11:18 AM
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We read the book of Ruth in 9th grade English, I think. It was actually in the textbook. The teacher got so many things about it wrong, it's ridiculous. I corrected her about 3 times, but then stopped trying.
Bible should be taught to children by their parents, pastors, and Sunday School teachers. And if they go to a Christian school to their parents liking, that's OK, too.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I don't want public schools anywhere near a Bible.
Jan 29, 2019, 11:35 AM
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Why not use the historical side of it which has plenty of value?
Archaeology has confirmed Biblical places, names, events, etc. time and time again.
Is there any other book known to man that spans the time period it does and can say that?
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All-In [26968]
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It's not a history book.
Jan 29, 2019, 11:48 AM
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It's the living, breathing, Word of God. And it must be taught by a Christian, through the power of the Holy Spirit. No other way is appropriate.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: It's not a history book.
Jan 29, 2019, 11:59 AM
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Where does it say in the Bible that it can’t be used to study history?
One of the biggest reasons people reject the gospel is they believe the Bible is full of nothing but myths. In reality it’s a a book of historical events and the writers theological interpretation, which is how the ancients viewed everything.
Jesus and the apostles claimed to speak on the authority of the Holy Spirit, but they didn’t appeal to just feelings and emotion. They talked about scripture as if it were based on actual historical events.
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Heisman Winner [111575]
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cause this***
Jan 29, 2019, 12:07 PM
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All-In [26968]
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People reject the Bible because they reject God...
Jan 29, 2019, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's not a history book. ] |
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Not because they don't believe the events of the Bible. The Bible is believed through faith only, not because anything is "historically accurate" or "scientifically accurate". If I can convince someone based on history and science the Bible is true, then tomorrow someone could convince them otherwise based on other history and science facts. But true belief through faith is permanent and life-changing.
Obviously I agree that the history contained in the Bible is accurate. More perfectly accurate than any history ever written, even.
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All-In [26968]
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Read 1 Corinthians 2.
Jan 29, 2019, 12:23 PM
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Explains it much better than I can.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Read 1 Corinthians 2.
Jan 29, 2019, 12:41 PM
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What about 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul encourages to go to Jerusalem and talk to the people who saw the risen Christ?
He didn’t say sing this song, say this prayer, you’ll get a fuzzy feeling and know it’s true....
He said go look at the evidence for yourself.
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All-In [26968]
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Did you read the chapter?
Jan 29, 2019, 12:47 PM
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It does not contradict what you are referring to in chapter 15, in any way.
"He didn’t say sing this song, say this prayer, you’ll get a fuzzy feeling and know it’s true...."
This is a major strawman. I don't believe that way, and you know I don't.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Did you read the chapter?
Jan 29, 2019, 12:56 PM
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That seems to be what you are leaning towards. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it doesn’t work for everybody.
I was raised by a southern baptist preacher. Went to church every time the doors open....it was only after I looked into the evidence for the historical Jesus that I truly came to faith.
The youth pastor at our church recently asked our youth to write down their biggest question about the Bible and the #1 response was how can you prove it’s true....
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All-In [26968]
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I would just respond with 1 Corinthians 2***
Jan 29, 2019, 12:58 PM
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I would just respond with 1 Corinthians 2***
Jan 29, 2019, 1:07 PM
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You don’t think the Holy Spirit can open a man’s eyes through historical evidence?
The disciples walked and talked with Jesus, saw every miracle, and it still took seeing the physically risen Christ for them to believe....
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All-In [26968]
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And what you posted shows that
Jan 29, 2019, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's not a history book. ] |
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I couldn't have you teach my children the Bible (that is not intended as a personal insult). You don't believe what I believe about the Bible, and what my children must believe about the Bible. You said " it’s a a book of historical events and the writers theological interpretation". To me, that is wrong, wrong, a million times wrong. The Bible was written by God, through the physical hand of those writers. They wrote exactly what God told them to write, through direct inspiration.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: And what you posted shows that
Jan 29, 2019, 12:39 PM
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I won’t take that as an insult but I respectfully disagree. Although I will say our teaching wouldn’t differ when it came to the belief that every word is inspired by God. I don’t believe in inspiration like you do though in that there was some magical voice that told these people what to write and I believe people still write things that are inspired by God based on their own personal experience and journey of faith.
Are you aware that many of the events the Old Testament records have parallels in the ancient world? Which points to the fact these stories are based on historical events but interpreted differently....
Kind of like if you, a Muslim and an atheist witness a miraculous healing. You will ascribe it to Yahweh, the Muslim Allah, and the atheist will come up with a natural explanation.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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All-In [26968]
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I believe they'd go to hell.
Jan 29, 2019, 1:38 PM
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Obviously, that is something I must try everything in my power to prevent.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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Re: I believe they'd go to hell.
Jan 29, 2019, 1:54 PM
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I believe they'd go to hell.
Jan 29, 2019, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to I believe they'd go to hell. ] |
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What are you going to say when one of them comes to you and says they read an article or heard from someone that there were many more gospels written that paint a different picture of the Jesus we believe in?
Or what if one of them reads something from the Jesus seminar who say that the majority of Jesus words in the gospels are not authentic?
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All-In [26968]
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Well, hopefully...
Jan 29, 2019, 2:05 PM
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By they time they get old enough to read something like that, they will already have been saved and grounded in the truth, and they will know that they are lies.
That's the goal, anyway.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Well, hopefully...
Jan 29, 2019, 3:13 PM
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I think teaching kids why we believe the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John over those of Peter, Thomas, and Mary, among others is grounding them in truth.
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Legend [18023]
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This is one of my biggest issues with religion
Jan 29, 2019, 3:03 PM
[ in reply to I believe they'd go to hell. ] |
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say your kid(s) live a perfect life where they never do anything wrong, give to others, love everyone, live a life without vice and believe in the Bible's teachings but they don't agree with your interpretation of The Bible and God's intentions...they are going to hell. And this may mean you disown them or at least have an extremely strained and difficult relationship with them all because of your pride.
In your case this is just a hypothetical, but when you think about how often it's actually the truth for families and societies all over the world, it's heartbreaking to think about.
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All-In [26968]
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Re: This is one of my biggest issues with religion
Jan 29, 2019, 3:47 PM
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No kid will ever lead a perfect life. If they did that, they wouldn't go to hell, but that's not going to happen.
And it's not about them agreeing with my interpretation, it's about having faith in what the Bible says and responding as it commands.
And I would not disown my kids for any reason, even if they committed murder or something like that.
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Legend [18023]
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as long as their faith and response is the same as yours
Jan 29, 2019, 4:10 PM
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otherwise you think they will go to hell. And as much as I'm glad you won't disown your kids, know that thinking they are going to hell because they don't believe the same way as you will cause a large divide between you and them. Too often people's pride gets in the way and ruins what otherwise would be cherished.
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110%er [5093]
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I don't want public schools anywhere near a Bible.
Jan 29, 2019, 3:05 PM
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Four autobiographies that can be traced to within a few decades at most of Jesus’ life (which is unprecedented by ancient standards) and multiple references by Jewish and Roman historians is not proof he existed?
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110%er [5093]
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Re: I don't want public schools anywhere near a Bible.
Jan 29, 2019, 9:05 PM
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The first mention of jesus from a secular source was almost 100 years after his alleged life.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I don't want public schools anywhere near a Bible.
Jan 29, 2019, 10:15 PM
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The first non Christian mention was from Flavius Josephus around 60 years after Jesus’ death. Also mentioned in the same document was a reference to John the Baptist. This is significant because the Jews were hostile to Christianity.
It makes sense that the Romans wouldn’t have written about Jesus until later into the growth of the early church as his ministry centered around Jerusalem.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: I don't want public schools anywhere near a Bible.
Jan 30, 2019, 5:17 PM
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If someone was performing the miracles that he was claimed to have performed there would have been a contemporary that would have mentioned him.
The general scholarly view is that the Josephus reference was subject to a Christian forgery.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I don't want public schools anywhere near a Bible.
Jan 31, 2019, 8:29 AM
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In today’s time of course. You’ve got to remember we are talking about the first century here. The majority of people were illiterate and this was an oral culture. Traditions were memorized and passed by word of mouth.
Also, people were not wrote about typically unless they were high profile kings or rulers. The fact that any secular source mentions Jesus is significant.
As for the Josephus’ writing, only the parts of it that call Jesus the Messiah are considered to be a later addition by Christians. He also mentions “James the brother of Jesus” elsewhere in the same writing.
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Oculus Spirit [83116]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Thank God for atheists who will prevent this garbage.
Jan 29, 2019, 11:24 AM
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Finding a use for a atheist is hard, but this thread did it.
BTW did you hear this guy say it wasn't because he was a Christian? JOTD
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Oculus Spirit [81897]
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Even as a Christian I am against this***
Jan 29, 2019, 12:41 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Well I'll knight you as an honorary Libertarian for a day.
Jan 29, 2019, 8:22 PM
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That was a very libertarian thing to say.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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They taught The Bible as Literature at Barnwell in the 70s.
Jan 29, 2019, 11:24 AM
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After year I of it I became an agnostic.
After year II, I became an atheist. Loved the teacher, though!
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Literary criticism could undo the whole shebang.***
Jan 29, 2019, 11:28 AM
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Depends on the context. Some people dig in deeper.
Jan 29, 2019, 11:38 AM
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A person can convince themselves of ANYTHING depending on the circumstances.
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Re: Jhop, this is what happens when someone is
Jan 29, 2019, 12:45 PM
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Which is why in the OP I suggested that only the parts that can be proven historically should be taught.
The entire ministry of Jesus could be taught up until the resurrection. You could also include the book of Acts and writings of Paul as a history of early Christianity.
People would go wait a minute, these books aren’t just myths and fairy tales....
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All-In [26968]
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You can't just pick which parts are good to teach
Jan 29, 2019, 12:52 PM
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The Bible says that all Scripture is profitable, and that the whole counsel of God should be preached.
If someone is taught the Bible as just a book of history, that's all they'll think it is. The first thing that needs to be taught from the Bible is the Gospel, not the history or the science. If the learner does not accept the Gospel, none of the rest matters.
So, if in the public school, the first day of Bible class would be to go to the book of John and the book of Romans, and show the students how they can be saved and transformed by grace through faith because of the sacrificial death of Christ on Calvary, then that's a good start. But I doubt that's how it would happen.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: You can't just pick which parts are good to teach
Jan 29, 2019, 1:03 PM
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It would be up to the student whether they went further into the miraculous parts and the calls to believe and they would have to do so outside of school.
You could teach the flood accounts and include Biblical version.
You could teach about the acrchaeological evidence of the Israelites in Egypt.
You could teach about King David and Solomon.
You could teach about Jesus’ ministry. The people who wrote the Gospels and how remarkably preserved the text has been kept over thousands of years.
You could teach about Paul’s missionary journeys.
Plenty of stuff you could teach without proselytizing students....
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All-In [26968]
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The "proselytizing" (which is a pejorative word)
Jan 29, 2019, 1:04 PM
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is the only thing that matters.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: The "proselytizing" (which is a pejorative word)
Jan 29, 2019, 1:11 PM
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Many people come to faith, myself included, not after hearing an eloquent presentation of the Gospel but through many years of seeking God through the evidence he has put before our eyes.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
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Am I on a list?
Jan 29, 2019, 2:00 PM
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Re: Jhop, this is what happens when someone is
Jan 29, 2019, 4:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Jhop, this is what happens when someone is ] |
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I don't know if I'd qualify much as a teacher of the Bible other than I chaperoned my old church's youth group on mission trips when I was in college and threw in a few random lessons here and there for middle school kids. I felt comfortable in what I knew about the Bible.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Trump wants Bible classes in school
Jan 29, 2019, 12:50 PM
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He's pandering to the gullible Christians in his base, so I don't think it's even worth addressing.
But it reminds me of being in 3rd grade. We used to have Bible study during class and there was one girl who wasn't Christian and was always excluded. I remember her actually being taken out of the class a few times. I felt terrible for her and still do.
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I can actually vibe with this.
Jan 29, 2019, 4:48 PM
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Well, aside from you knowing I disagree with it holding up historically (there's that whole creation, Noah's Ark, and Exodus problem), I will say that it's virtually impossible to NOT reference the Bible when teaching Language Arts. The Bible is the most reference work in all of English-language literature, with Shakespeare following right behind that.
Let's be honest: I don't see how you can teach any high school or college level ELA or history class without some biblical references.
That being said, if there's a demand for a Bible class in a public school as an elective, and purely an elective, then sure, have at it. The school also needs to provide similar outlets for other religious electives depending upon demand. Make nothing required and open equal opportunities for those who want it.
That being said, I'm ready to put down good money Trump knows nothing about what's printed in that book and he's only doing this to posture to his base. He's likely less of a Christian than I am.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: I can actually vibe with this.
Jan 29, 2019, 6:43 PM
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I don’t think any other religion’s scriptures have the historical value that the Old Testament has. A nation does base its history off of it. Whether or not you believe God led the Israelites out of Egypt and through a conquest of the promised land there were clearly Semitic people in Egypt who left and settled in the land of Canaan. In the case of the story of Noah, it is one of many coming out of the region that tell of a devastating flood, so even it has historical value.
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Orange Blooded [3516]
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Oh...this is a great idea
Jan 30, 2019, 1:21 PM
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Since girls won't be able to attend the classes, we would need to create other courses for them (title 9 you know) possibly related to cooking, sewing, and just general guidance on how to be a good and faithful subservient wife some day.
Seriously, this thread somehow turned into a discussion on the merits of whether the Christian Bible would make an ok history text ..it should have never gotten past the laughter and ridicule phase...
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