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Recruit [78]
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Clemson's losses
Jan 28, 2020, 10:09 AM
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Usually lead to bigger and better things. Dabo has shown us that he learns and gets better from a coaching standpoint. Whether that be getting bigger and more physical players in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Bigger stronger backs, a high caliber trigger man, and great young men that happen to play football.
There is one area I'm waiting/wanting to see him and the coaching staff make and that is the feel of the game in games. I go back to the 09 ACC Championship game and I thought the way the game was going we should've let GT earlier in there last drive. It would have put us down 8 but CJ was carrying us that game, imo we should have gave him a shot to see what he could've done.
17 Sugar bowl I thought this was another game were we got impatient on offense and forced plays. I believe the game was 9-6 or 10-6 at halftime Bama on top. The only way we were going to win that game with that team was to out Bama Bama. Run on 1st 2nd and 3rd then punt if nothing manufactured on the drive. Play field position and defense. Occasionally mix in some play action passes here and there. That game should have been like the BC game earlier in the season where it seemed like we ran the ball 60-70 times that game as a team.
Then of course last years National Championship game going in yes I thought TL was going to be able to match Burrow. Though the game played differently for us were ETN was actually making things happen for us. Imo ball control should have been part of the game plan anyways but especially how the game was unfolding.
I know all this could be defined as hine side 20/20 but I think if a lot of fans think back to those games will have the same kind of thoughts just from watching the games live.
Not trying to hate on Coach.
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All-In [25492]
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Re: Clemson's losses
Jan 28, 2020, 10:28 AM
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I'll stick with the coaches what brung me. 29-1 ACC championships out the ying yang and 2 natties.
Nuff said.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Clemson's losses
Jan 28, 2020, 10:38 AM
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The ACC champ game in '09 is absolutely just a hindsight observation.
The gameplan in '17 was not the problem. KB wouldn't let the ball go in time to open WRs. Dabo has mentioned it without stating it directly that the plays were there because of the defense that Bama chose to play in daring us to throw the ball. Guys were wide open. It's not like KB missed the throws because he wasn't good enough. He wouldn't let the ball go because he was second guessing himself too much. The first INT was a play where we had a guy WIDE open down the field and he held the ball too long and then was hit when he finally decided to throw. The next INT was on a conservative slant play that we didn't fight for the ball that was thrown a little late and it got deflected to another DB for Bama. That game was 0% on the coaching staff. There is no reason to adjust in-game when the plays being called are wide open. Dabo rarely gets on a QB hard after an INT, but he was all over KB during that game even on plays that weren't turnovers.
Finally, this season's national championship was a situation where the offensive coaches read the flow of the game but just happened to make a choice that didn't work as a response. The offensive coaches started to read that we had to score a lot to win, but we chose 1st and 2nd down plays that resulted in a lot of difficult 3rd downs. Sure feeding ETN would have been a good idea, but I would guess most coaches would go to their superstar QB when they wanted to score a lot of points. We got flustered which is something that has not happened to our coaches very often if at all in any other game.
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All-In [30828]
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So in example 1 it read a lack of execution by the qb
Jan 28, 2020, 10:48 AM
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Why do you think that isn't a case in example 2?
I was at the game.. the plays were there. The 1st downs were there. The chances to eat clock and add core points were there. Just couldn't execute at the same level as LSU.
Lsu was simy on another level.. it's like when you pick the correct defense button in techno bowl..but some how vinny testaverde still throws a 90yard td.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: So in example 1 it read a lack of execution by the qb
Jan 28, 2020, 11:04 AM
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I guess it read lack of QB execution in a more implied way in example 2.
TL made the throws and missed them. My main emphasis about the LSU game was the offensive gameplan and approach being a very flustered one in which we chose a plan that wasn't working and we failed to try other options. I somewhat don't blame them because we all expected Trevor to hit some big throws that he wasn't hitting. Overall though, I think we got caught up in how we expected to score points instead of realizing that TL wasn't on and we needed to try ETN even if the looks didn't dictate that on some early downs.
A major difference in the two examples are that we didn't have free runners in the LSU game that TL was refusing to throw to. He made some bad throws but all were on contested routes. Credit to LSU's defense for not giving TL any easy ones in the second half to let him get back in rhythm.
I am repeating what has been said by others, but there were free runners down the field in the '17 Bama game and the ball didn't go in their direction. Most specifically Trevion Thompson was generally ignored by Bama's defense and we still didn't throw him the ball. Not by playcalling, but KB just couldn't manage to get it out of his hands.
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Recruit [78]
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Re: So in example 1 it read a lack of execution by the qb
Jan 28, 2020, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to So in example 1 it read a lack of execution by the qb ] |
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No doubt there were plays the JB and the LSU receivers made that there was no defense to. Credit all goes to them on those plays, tip your hat and move on to the next. To say that was the case on every play they made would be wrong.
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Recruit [78]
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Re: Clemson's losses
Jan 28, 2020, 1:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson's losses ] |
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Dabo and staff where young and u expect growing pains. That still don't negate how the feel of that game was. Both offense controlled the game and determined the outcome. Would u not agree?
The Sugar gameplan was a good one if we had DW4 or TL but we didn't. We had KB and we all knew what his strengths and weaknesses are. So a gameplan that ask a RB at QB to throw the ball was not a logical one. This is the reason he lost his starting job. So would u ask a Center in basketball to be your PG? I think not. So the plan was not ideal for the players we had or how the game was being played. Both defenses had control of the game, it was basically the first offense to make a mistake was going to lose. Therefore ball control and field position probably was the better option. This is the reason why I think we punted on those first 2 possessions in the Natty this go round.
Like I stated going in I thought TL would have been able to match JB. It just didn't happen TL missed some throws, LSU defense did a good job with taking away the sideline throws which were are go to plays, and OC play calling had something to do with it to. Once again if something is working why change it even if the numbers don't add up in your favor. Imo u keep running till they prove they can stop it on a consistent basis, like what they where doing in the passing game.
Big time games like these come down to big to players making big time plays, but they have to be put in position to make those plays. I don't think we used Amri and ETN enough or dialed up plays for them to make plays.
As a fan I'm grateful and appreciative of what Dabo has done here so dont get it twisted. Just an observation on what I think Dabo and crew will work on.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Clemson's losses
Jan 28, 2020, 1:36 PM
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Yes both offenses controlled the game in '09 but letting the other team score is a desperation move. In my opinion that is an unheard of call to make when you have a chance to get a stop and have a reasonable amount of time to score after the stop. Maybe it would have worked, but it's not a call that I ever expect to see a coach make unless there isn't enough time on the clock to get a stop and score.
We may have to disagree on KB and the offensive plan in '17. It's not like they asked him to throw it 40 times and he couldn't deliver. He was a QB who could run better than throw but he was not a RB playing QB. I think it's completely reasonable to ask your starting QB, with 2,800 yards passing and a 13:6 TD:INT ratio entering the game, to throw to a few wide open WRs when the defense hands it to you. We absolutely played a ball control, low possession offense in that game. That's why it was 10-3 at half. To start the 2nd half we got the ball in Bama territory. KB ate the ball with a wide open WR and we settled for a FG to cut it to 10-6. On Bama's next score we had the ball again with the score still 10-6. We called ANOTHER play that created a wide open WR and KB was so slow trying to get the ball out that he was hit, the ball popped into the air, and Bama took over for the game sealing TD. The INT at 17-6 was unfortunate and made the game completely out of reach, but we weren't going to get to more than 17 once they knew we had to throw it to win the game down 2 scores.
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Recruit [78]
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Re: Clemson's losses
Jan 28, 2020, 1:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson's losses ] |
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Dabo and staff where young and u expect growing pains. That still don't negate how the feel of that game was. Both offense controlled the game and determined the outcome. Would u not agree?
The Sugar gameplan was a good one if we had DW4 or TL but we didn't. We had KB and we all knew what his strengths and weaknesses are. So a gameplan that ask a RB at QB to throw the ball was not a logical one. This is the reason he lost his starting job. So would u ask a Center in basketball to be your PG? I think not. So the plan was not ideal for the players we had or how the game was being played. Both defenses had control of the game, it was basically the first offense to make a mistake was going to lose. Therefore ball control and field position probably was the better option. This is the reason why I think we punted on those first 2 possessions in the Natty this go round.
Like I stated going in I thought TL would have been able to match JB. It just didn't happen TL missed some throws, LSU defense did a good job with taking away the sideline throws which were are go to plays, and OC play calling had something to do with it to. Once again if something is working why change it even if the numbers don't add up in your favor. Imo u keep running till they prove they can stop it on a consistent basis, like what they where doing in the passing game.
Big time games like these come down to big to players making big time plays, but they have to be put in position to make those plays. I don't think we used Amri and ETN enough or dialed up plays for them to make plays.
As a fan I'm grateful and appreciative of what Dabo has done here so dont get it twisted. Just an observation on what I think Dabo and crew will work on.
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All-In [30828]
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Its all connected... the etn argument fails
Jan 28, 2020, 10:42 AM
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Because the passing attempts are 1 of the reasons he was doing well.
If you pound him 3 outta every 4 plays... lsu can load the box .
LSU won.. clemson lost. Its that simple
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CU Medallion [55747]
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Agreed. And I believe we are starting to see the pendulum
Jan 28, 2020, 10:53 AM
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swing back to a more traditional running game, balanced with the throwing we've become accustomed to. See the Titans' success in the NFL.
Also, I will be curious to see if Saban goes back to his traditional methods now that Tua is gone.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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When you have the #1 QB in the land
Jan 28, 2020, 12:11 PM
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you don't really want him to be handing off all of the time.
I don't know exactly what you do when you have the #1 RB in the land, too.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: When you have the #1 QB in the land
Jan 28, 2020, 12:13 PM
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For the 2019 season, we averaged 34 passes and 38 runs per game.
Let's not panic just because we lost to a team that was on fire.
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Recruit [78]
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Re: When you have the #1 QB in the land
Jan 28, 2020, 12:53 PM
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Your exactly right no need to panic. This post wasn't meant to bash anyone of the coaches on the team. This staff's record speaks for itself, they have done a great job.
This was more so where I think Dabo and crew will try to grow at.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: Clemson's losses
Jan 28, 2020, 12:24 PM
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2009- Dabo and staff were very young. Back and forth game. Georgia Tech had the last real chance to win. Spiller was unbelievable.
2017- 'Bammer stacked the box and KB not able/willing to throw it well enough.
2019- LSU outplayed and out coached us.
I believe Dabo and staff will learn from this latest loss and make the necessary adjustments.
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