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Legend [15746]
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What "commitment" does Clemson fail to show in basketball?
Mar 22, 2017, 8:03 AM
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I keep reading from some of you that Clemson doesn't have a commitment to basketball. Some of you are saying that because we kept Brownell. But beyond that, what commitment do we need to show? I thought we just spent $65 million renovating an arena that we renovated ten years ago. Is it just coach's salary? What do you want to see us do that we aren't doing other than firing the head coach?
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Head Coach [758]
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Re: What "commitment" does Clemson fail to show in basketball?
Mar 22, 2017, 8:08 AM
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Well, Clemson upgraded every other venue on campus before basketball. They give coaches raises for runs of mediocrity. The standards just aren't the same as they are in football, baseball, golf, and soccer.
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Legend [15746]
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Again, didn't we upgrade Littlejohn a decade ago?
Mar 22, 2017, 8:49 AM
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We did a massive renovation in 2003 and then again in 2016. I'm not sure you can say it was the last to get attention.
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Legend [19664]
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That renovation was piecemeal
Mar 22, 2017, 9:24 AM
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a lot of cost went to fixing the roof on LJ, not improving it,and especially practice facilities and amenities
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Buzz Williams is recruiting 5-stars and making the dance
Mar 22, 2017, 9:57 AM
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with facilities that may be worse than the old LJ.
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110%er [7971]
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Re: Buzz Williams is recruiting 5-stars and making the dance
Mar 22, 2017, 10:13 AM
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> with facilities that may be worse than the old LJ.
The casual fan like yourself does not consider the fact that VT built a basketball office/practice facility several years ago so their facilities are far superior to those at CU. one must also look at investment in assistants and support staff. We spend very little in these areas compared to other ACC schools. Note we outspend other schools in these areas for football and it shows
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Legend [19664]
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110%er [7971]
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Re: That barn they play in still has wooden seats
Mar 22, 2017, 10:42 AM
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> They're getting ready to renovate it but Cassell is a
> dump. Just shows how important the coach is
CC is the fan experience. Basketball practice facility - player facilities is a different thing
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All-In [44028]
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They have a great practice facility.
Mar 22, 2017, 5:25 PM
[ in reply to That barn they play in still has wooden seats ] |
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They built an excellent player facility including practice courts, meeting rooms, etc. several years ago. The players don't care about Cassell Coliseum, but they do care about where they will be spending most of their time practicing, meeting, and hanging out.
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CU Guru [1898]
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CU Guru [1898]
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Commissioner [991]
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the one in 2003 was a token "We care", noone thought
Mar 22, 2017, 9:01 PM
[ in reply to Again, didn't we upgrade Littlejohn a decade ago? ] |
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it was any kind of an answer to where we needed to be. It was something that would have been nice to see in 1993.
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All-In [26968]
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Firing people is the ultimate sign of commitment
Mar 22, 2017, 8:24 AM
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to the program.
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Oculus Spirit [96819]
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Exactly. Works the same way in marriage.***
Mar 22, 2017, 8:32 AM
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CU Medallion [58411]
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All-In [44028]
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It's a lot of things.
Mar 22, 2017, 8:46 AM
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-The facility upgrades were at least 10 years overdue.
-The program seems to be a distant second in importance at Clemson, rather than a close second.
-We don't seem to have any standards for winning.
-We don't give the coaches what they ask for and need. Brownell has hd to scratch and claw for the little support he has been given.
-We make excuses for not being better, rather than manning up and fixing core issues.
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All-In [44028]
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Plus, we tend to do things cheaply.
Mar 22, 2017, 9:44 AM
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We always hire coaches cheaply, support the program minimally, and then act surprised when we aren't more successful. Or, the few times we have gotten lucky and hired a good coach, we act surprised when that coach leaves.
The renovations 12 years ago were a pathetic band-aid. What we have now should have been done then. We are reactive, not proactive.
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CU Medallion [64564]
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^^^THIS...a thousand times this ^^^^***
Mar 22, 2017, 10:32 AM
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CU Medallion [64564]
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If someone has to explain it, you wouldn't understand***
Mar 22, 2017, 9:27 AM
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Legend [15746]
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Oooooh man! Burn!
Mar 22, 2017, 10:33 AM
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Not really your style, BigCU. Maybe you're tired.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: What "commitment" does Clemson fail to show in basketball?
Mar 22, 2017, 10:35 AM
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The 4 and 5 star variety of commitments, for starts.
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All-TigerNet [10924]
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^^^underrated post^^^***
Mar 22, 2017, 7:39 PM
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Recruit [78]
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Re: What "commitment" does Clemson fail to show in basketball?
Mar 22, 2017, 10:46 AM
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I am sure that like most Clemson fans … we would like to see some progress being made with our Men’s BB team. Clemson has over the years recruited many good players. Although we are not Duke and Carolina – there is still talent. Sometime the talent might be a little raw but that’s where a good coach comes in and develops these young men to be better players. When I watched a few of the games this past season, the basic fundamentals at times were lacking! We would mishandle the ball on fast breaks and get so far underneath the basket that it would result in missed opportunities. There would be times when we couldn’t get the ball inbounds at crucial moments and many times there were defensive breakdowns that resulted in last second losses!
It is true that the team played hard throughout the year … but sometime harder doesn’t equal smarter. And that is where good fundamentals come into play. How can we get better if we keep making the same mistakes.
I have always been a supporter of the men’s BB team. I though - would like to see us make some progress. Unfortunately when you look at our program and compare that with SC and Ga. Tech … how do we improve? Where and with who does improvement start with?
Like Dabo says “the fun is in the winning”! I hope coach BB will get the assistance he needs from the right individuals that will take this program to a higher level of success than its current state.
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Hall of Famer [21821]
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What "commitment" does Clemson show in basketball?***
Mar 22, 2017, 10:46 AM
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Legend [15746]
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Okay, put another way. Here are some ways I can
Mar 22, 2017, 11:01 AM
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think of that Clemson could show commitment to basketball.
1) Cheat to get recruits.
2) Cheat to maintain player eligibility.
3) Invest in facilities.
4) Pay coaches well.
5) Hold coaches to high standard.
6) Invest in program marketing.
What else?
Cheating is not an option so we can ignore that.
We just spent $65 million on our facilities. Regardless of how overdue you thought the renovations were, how are we now? If it is still insufficient, what is lacking?
I think we pay BB well...especially given his performance. What coach should we have that we wouldn't because of money?
Obviously many here think we aren't holding BB accountable. That's understandable.
Do we market the program aggressively enough?
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All-In [44028]
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The new facility brought us up to current standards.
Mar 22, 2017, 5:30 PM
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Our new basketball facility, while nice, puts on on par with other programs we compete against. That's great, but it is not an advantage. Rather, it is no longer a disadvantage.
But it didn't do anything revolutionary. That would be the next step in the future. Think about our football facilities. We built the indoor practice facility, which is nice, and put us on par with the other top programs. But the newest football building, "Dabo World," sets a new standard and gives it that WOW factor.
I believe that we need to be even BETTER than other programs when it comes to the things we can control (like facilities) since our past and our present puts us at a disadvantage. It's tough to do, but we must do it.
Side note: improving the coaching staff is key as well. The more I reflect on it, the more I think that the problem is less Brownell and more his assistants. We have to get rid of a couple of assistants and bring in some younger ones who are program-changers in recruiting.
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Recruit [96]
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Re: The new facility brought us up to current standards.
Mar 22, 2017, 7:26 PM
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> Our new basketball facility, while nice, puts on on
> par with other programs we compete against. That's
> great, but it is not an advantage. Rather, it is no
> longer a disadvantage.
>
> But it didn't do anything revolutionary. That would
> be the next step in the future. Think about our
> football facilities. We built the indoor practice
> facility, which is nice, and put us on par with the
> other top programs. But the newest football building,
> "Dabo World," sets a new standard and gives it that
> WOW factor.
>
> I believe that we need to be even BETTER than other
> programs when it comes to the things we can control
> (like facilities) since our past and our present puts
> us at a disadvantage. It's tough to do, but we must
> do it.
>
> Side note: improving the coaching staff is key as
> well. The more I reflect on it, the more I think that
> the problem is less Brownell and more his assistants.
> We have to get rid of a couple of assistants and
> bring in some younger ones who are program-changers
> in recruiting.
how is it you know how recruits view Clemson facilities, and do you know anything about assistant coaches at Clemson.
seems like all you do is speculate.
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Recruit [96]
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Re: The new facility brought us up to current standards.
Mar 22, 2017, 8:25 PM
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The Trapp kid out of Columbia had 20 offers. He chose Clemson even though at least 10 of those colleges had facilities and 'investment' at least as good as Clemson.
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All-In [44028]
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Our basketball assistants are not great recruiters IMO.
Mar 22, 2017, 8:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: The new facility brought us up to current standards. ] |
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As I'm sure you know, Brownell has lost several key assistants over the past seven years - several of whom left because they were offered head coaching positions. While that is a great thing, and speaks to the staffs Brownell has built, it also makes recruiting difficult. Relationship building is crucial and we haven't had that continuity. My opinion is that our current assistants, while very good coaches, are not great recruiters. The facility issue has certainly hampered them, as has the limitations placed on the staff in terms of recruiting budget and lack of adequate support staff.
I don't know how recruits view our facilities, but I do know that what we have now is nice but not top of the line. I have seen our facilities, and I have also seen others. I don't claim to have been to every facility in college basketball, but I do think I have a pretty good handle on it. If you disagree, that's your right. I'm not speculating though.
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Recruit [96]
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Re: Our basketball assistants are not great recruiters IMO.
Mar 22, 2017, 8:33 PM
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you are speculating. you have no idea how recruits view the facilities but then claim CLemson doesn't have good facilities.
i don't think you can name one recruit who visited CLemson and lost interest only because of the facilities.
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All-In [44028]
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Of course it isn't ONLY about facilities.
Mar 22, 2017, 8:58 PM
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But that is a major factor for recruits today in which program they choose. Thankfully, Clemson addressed this (even though it was at least 10 years overdue).
Do you not think facilities matter a lot?
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Recruit [96]
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Re: Of course it isn't ONLY about facilities.
Mar 22, 2017, 9:20 PM
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> But that is a major factor for recruits today in
> which program they choose. Thankfully, Clemson
> addressed this (even though it was at least 10 years
> overdue).
>
> Do you not think facilities matter a lot?
again you trash our facilities, without providing any evidence that any recruit has decided not to go to CLemson b/c of the facilities.
it is fricking basketball. do you want court paved in gold? are we recruiting atheletes or divas?
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: Our basketball assistants are not great recruiters IMO.
Mar 23, 2017, 12:32 AM
[ in reply to Our basketball assistants are not great recruiters IMO. ] |
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I can back you up a little bit with something told to me by a SC HS football coach in 2014.
His team had a 4* recruit that didn't want to play for Clemson because the dorms at Clemson didn't have CATV if I recall correctly. The kid did sign somewhere else.
Apparently bells and whistles do matter to some kids.
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All-In [48078]
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Legend [16132]
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we didn't have a full sized court to practice on until this
Mar 22, 2017, 12:10 PM
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year...There was an obvious lack of commitment to the facilities that we JUST addressed, but it isn't a magic wand
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All-In [44028]
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I always chuckle when people seem surprised that
Mar 22, 2017, 5:31 PM
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we don't already have 5 star recruits and NCAA bids after just one year in the new facility. These are the same people who say that we wasted money on the new facility, and should have spent it elsewhere. That is extremely short-sighted!
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All-In [48078]
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Exactly. We will know a lot more in 2 or 3 years.*****
Mar 22, 2017, 9:06 PM
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All-In [48078]
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I wnt to see Brad wrestle a bear at halftime.
Mar 22, 2017, 9:05 PM
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I would know he was allin.
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