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Orange Blooded [3137]
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What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:33 AM
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FWIW.. DRad had a deal worked out with Brownell to "walk away" from the program and the buy out negotiated down to $2.5 million over 5 years.. Were ready to pull the trigger on this if Wade had accepted the offer of $1.75/year not including incentive based bonuses similar to what Dabo/Lee have in place to get his contract above $2mil per year.. Wade didn't bite..
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110%er [7718]
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Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:34 AM
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I wouldnt be shocked if that was the Wade offer...
We went cheap with Brownell and are now tyring to do the same to Wade...
You get what you pay for.
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Orange Blooded [3137]
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Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:39 AM
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I understand where you're coming from.. But I actually thought it was a pretty fair offer.. Just a little side note.. I also heard that the bonus simply for making the tourney was in the $200-300k range which puts him right at $2 million for simply making the tourney.. Again, this is very similar to how things started out with Dabo and how things were handled with lee.. He was offered a grand opportunity to come home and coach in a brand new arena,, great programs surrounding him,, with a fair comp package.. He didn't bite.. sometimes in life,, you simply have to live within your means..
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110%er [7718]
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Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:41 AM
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"you simply have to live within your means.. "
Well our income to live within our means is about to take a dive this year when their is an empty arena.
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Orange Blooded [3137]
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Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:44 AM
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I'll give you another quote to chew on..
"it's always the darkest before the dawn"..
and just for the record.. I haven't been a Brownell supporter for awhile. I've seen him as a Tommy Bowden type for awhile.. he's never going to get it done here. However, DRad has earned my trust in making decisions for this Universities athletics.. None of us know the true inner workings of why decisions were made or not made,, simply have to trust in the fact he knows what he's doing.. and will pull the program back up.. Rome wasn't built in a day.. no matter how much we all want it to be..
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Legend [16227]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Season ticket sales will still be strong and make up for
Mar 20, 2017, 3:14 PM
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I also think that our players deserve MUCH better than this! this just tells the entire basketball world that " simply don`t give a ####". recruits should go somewhere that basketball matters!! You should try Crooked frank Martin in cootville! THEY CARE!!
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110%er [7157]
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i disagree. The program at VCU is solid gold. To get him to
Mar 20, 2017, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW... ] |
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leave there to come to a hard job to succeed at you need to pony up and pay upfront. This incentive thing is a tough sell because he knows how hard it is to win here. And how easy it is to win at VCU and get notariaty. Which is why i say keep brownell. If we haven't learned yet that we gotta go pay a winner then don't just pay this "going rate" salary and try to incentivize a candidate to win in order to get paid. Our basketball job ain't as easy as our football job. You have all the tools here to win in football. Winnable conference, facilities, and support. Basketball you have facilities but not much after that. Our conference is not winnable and support is fairweather.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: i disagree. The program at VCU is solid gold. To get him to
Mar 20, 2017, 10:31 AM
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I honestly wish we have saved the money on Littlejohn and spent it elsewhere. That program doesn't deserve that type of facility. If we had put that money in Soccer, Tennis, & Golf we could have the best facilities in the nation for all three.
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All-TigerNet [10616]
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Have you seen the Soccer, Tennis & Golf facilities?******
Mar 20, 2017, 11:45 AM
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All-In [44004]
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CU Medallion [60205]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: i disagree. The program at VCU is solid gold. To get him to
Mar 20, 2017, 3:21 PM
[ in reply to i disagree. The program at VCU is solid gold. To get him to ] |
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SUPPORT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE WIN WHAT WE SHOULD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Simply no reason to lose to V/T,FSU, Miami, ETC. We have tried this stupid " the coach will grow into this job". See what we got with BB????
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CU Guru [1776]
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"Going cheap" seems to be the perpetual M.O.
Mar 20, 2017, 10:13 AM
[ in reply to Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW... ] |
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We don't tend to hire coaches who have shown success at the level we want to be. Here's a list of football, basketball and baseball coaches hired since about 1970. Of the 16, I think Hatfield is the only lateral move, though you could argue Rick Barnes was, as well. I starred five that I would consider to have been successful at CU (giving MLee benefit of the doubt). So the question would be "is 5 out of 16 sufficient success to continue with this M.O.?" I lean toward "yes" by a little.
Hootie Ingram -- DC
Red Parker -- The Citadel
Charley Pell -- Jacksonville State
Danny Ford -- OL*
Ken Hatfield -- ARKANSAS
Tommy West -- Chattanooga
Tommy Bowden -- Tulane
Dabo -- WR*
Tates Locke -- Miami of Ohio
Bill Foster -- UNC Charlotte
Cliff Ellis -- South Alabama
Rick Barnes -- Providence*
Larry Shyatt -- Wyoming
Oliver Purnell -- Dayton
Brad Brownell -- Wright State
Jack Leggett -- Western Carolina*
Monte Lee -- College of Charleston*
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: "Going cheap" seems to be the perpetual M.O.
Mar 20, 2017, 10:18 AM
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I take exception to Lee. There were factors in his record that showed he was a super hire.
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CU Guru [1776]
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I consider him a success. The point was more that
Mar 20, 2017, 10:23 AM
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it was a vertical move rather than a lateral move for him -- from CofC to CU.
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Orange Blooded [3769]
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Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:41 AM
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I'm ok with not breaking the bank on Wade. Still a bit of an unproven commodity and still playing with Shakas guys. No need to get in another bad contract. He had a chance to come home and prove it and he would have been compensated nicely. Didn't bite so let's just move on and support Brownell. Like it or not he is the coach moving forward
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110%er [7157]
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so is wade the only candidate? If true then yes breaking the
Mar 20, 2017, 9:57 AM
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bank for him probably is too much of a wild card. But I don't like the idea of paying fair to our next bball coach. Save the money if thats what you want to do in hopes of paying out for a winner coach. Not a project, or a "lets see" type guy. Keep BB if you're going to do that. But we gotta forget that thought and go hard for our next guy. Or just quit worrying about it.
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110%er [7157]
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yeah thats not the recipe for a solid basketball program.
Mar 20, 2017, 9:44 AM
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its actually the opposite and simply more of the same. You can't underpay and try to incentivize a coach through performance here. You have to pay big up front to get the quality coach we would need. Going cheap is all we ever do and that's why all we ever are NIT bound at best. At least we know we haven't' changed anything. So why go get another coach if we are going to treat the program the same. There has to be a change in philosophy at the top. If you want to compete you better go get a winner and not a project. See you can do that with baseball and even football because the job is the actual nugget of gold. Basketball is not as compared to others. Only reason to leave VCU is a major increase in salary. Too bad Clemson still doesn't' get it.
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CU Medallion [64519]
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It's the same BS approach...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:48 AM
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Rather than going out and hiring the best possible candidate available and paying the money to get them here, the AD sets a salary range and then tries to find someone (anyone) who is willing to accept the job for that salary.
This is one of the reasons wimmins bball has been so bad for so long.
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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Well, in his defense, I'm sure he has a budget and it ...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:50 AM
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doesn't give him much room when we are paying assistants on the FB team over $1MM. Not that they don't/didn't deserve it, but it likely does affect how much we can pay a hoops coach.
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All-Conference [415]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: It's the same BS approach...
Mar 20, 2017, 3:25 PM
[ in reply to It's the same BS approach... ] |
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u are absolutely correct! why not just do away with our basketball programs and put that $$$ into the softball program.
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Orange Blooded [3769]
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Re: yeah thats not the recipe for a solid basketball program.
Mar 20, 2017, 9:50 AM
[ in reply to yeah thats not the recipe for a solid basketball program. ] |
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Lot of people thought we went cheap on the football hire 8 years ago too. You never know what will happen honestly. People would be highly upset if we had fired Brownell hired wade for 3 million plus and he turned out worse than Brownell
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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Not sure about that. Most think a change is needed and most
Mar 20, 2017, 9:52 AM
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support a Wade hiring (although I thought they should have opened the search up nationally).
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Orange Blooded [3769]
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Re: Not sure about that. Most think a change is needed and most
Mar 20, 2017, 9:27 PM
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I agree a change is probably needed and I was on board with the Wade pursuit. I was also kind of under the assumption we could get him for about 2 million maybe 2.3 with incentives at the most. The fact he balked at a chance to come home is kind of a slap in the face
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110%er [7157]
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comparing the support, investment, conference winability,
Mar 20, 2017, 10:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: yeah thats not the recipe for a solid basketball program. ] |
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reputation of our football program to our basketball program are apples and oranges. You can sometimes get away with that style in our football program. Because the programs history, facilities, fan support never wanes. in baseball the support never wanes... basketball clemson fans are fairweather. Only when we're good will we show up.Coaches need to get paid big to come here. Otherwise lets just keep BB.
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All-In [28286]
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well, here's a little message for the da drad
Mar 20, 2017, 9:44 AM
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they are other very good coaches out there not named will ### wade - that is all
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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Exactly! Even if we ended up hiring him, Wade shouldn't
Mar 20, 2017, 9:49 AM
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have been the only coach we talked to. If DRad was ready to cut the cord with BB, then cut the freakin cord and perform a true coaching search. Tom Crean, Danny Hurley, Wade, etc. Talk about a lame duck. "BB will be gone as soon as his buyout is lowered, or we can find someone willing to take under $2MM." That should be great for recruiting.
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110%er [7026]
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Exactly.. This will hinder recruiting for 3+ years.***
Mar 20, 2017, 9:52 AM
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CU Guru [1579]
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Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:45 AM
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If that was the offer then that was dumb on Wade's part. He's what 35? Take the 1.75 million and build your program then
Clemson would have give you your 3 million a year.
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110%er [7157]
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disagree, shaka smart got paid double what clemson is
Mar 20, 2017, 10:20 AM
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offering wade. So why not hold out and get VCU fat and happy and then get real money. At a bigger school. Clemson has no pull in the basketball world. WE gotta be the aggressors if change is to be had.
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CU Medallion [64519]
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So DRad put all of his eggs in one basket...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:45 AM
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in one all or nothing move?
If that's the case, he really should be fired too.
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Orange Blooded [3137]
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Re: So DRad put all of his eggs in one basket...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:48 AM
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That's the word on the screet Big... Kind of surprised me as well.. Apparently, that's the only coach that warranted exercising the buy out clause in Brownell's contract.. In the eyes of CU AD..
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CU Medallion [64519]
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DRad may be the worst ******* negotiator....
Mar 20, 2017, 9:57 AM
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in college athletics.
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110%er [6403]
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Re: So DRad put all of his eggs in one basket...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:55 AM
[ in reply to So DRad put all of his eggs in one basket... ] |
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DRad is a bricks and mortar AD.
He is riding on the coat tails of CDS.
IMHOP he does not make data-based decisions on managing the athletic dept.
He left Atlanta for a reason. They didn't want him any more.
Now we are stuck with his incompetent actions.
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CU Medallion [64519]
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DRad is a fund raising/facilities guy...
Mar 20, 2017, 10:00 AM
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Hiring coaches and negotiating contracts is NOT his forte. Ask anyone affiliated with GT and they will tell you the same thing. He negotiated some unbelievably stupid contracts when he was there too.
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110%er [5678]
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Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW...
Mar 20, 2017, 9:54 AM
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Someone may have already posted this, but word out of Virginia is that Wade is expecting to get $2.7million/year in order to leave VCU.
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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I was fine with Wade but would rather have looked
Mar 20, 2017, 9:59 AM
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elsewhere. The recent history of VCU coaches who left for greener pastures is not inspiring. Capel, Grant and Smart didn't exactly tear it up once they were gone.
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Legend [19567]
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That's a fair point
Mar 20, 2017, 10:15 AM
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With Wade being an alum, it gave him a special identity as someone who could actually be a long term answer. Does not sound as though that's ever happening.
What will the renegotiated contract look like? Are we better positioning ourselves for a move in the future should Brad continue to produce mediocre results? We'll learn a lot when we see the new terms
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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Where has it been reported that his deal was renegotiated?***
Mar 20, 2017, 10:17 AM
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Legend [19567]
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Hood mentioned it in his story
Mar 20, 2017, 10:19 AM
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speculating staff changes as well. I wonder if we'd look at Buckner as an assistant? Start getting him some experience, as he's expressed the desire to be here
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All-In [44004]
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Greg Buckner as an assistant would be outstanding.
Mar 20, 2017, 3:33 PM
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Let him get his feet wet on the college level so that he can learn and make contacts, so that he can potentially be considered for our head coaching position one day.
I would expect that he would be a very good recruiter too.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Hood mentioned it in his story
Mar 20, 2017, 3:34 PM
[ in reply to Hood mentioned it in his story ] |
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David please stay on top of this. Let us know if Brownell really fires any coach or who he hires. Drad needs to address this situation soon.
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Legend [19567]
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And now it's not there
Mar 20, 2017, 10:24 AM
[ in reply to Where has it been reported that his deal was renegotiated?*** ] |
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looks like the story has been edited. They almost have to give him a fourth year for any hope of recruiting. Will the buyout be renegotiated as part of that? Who knows. I do believe staff changes are needed. I'd love to see Buck back
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: And now it's not there
Mar 20, 2017, 3:19 PM
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I'd love to know the truth.
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CU Guru [1321]
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If that be the case, then even if Wade doesn't bite....
Mar 20, 2017, 11:49 AM
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Make the call to Tom Crean's agent. If you have the buyout renegotiated, then you have pull the trigger in my opinion. It is a disservice to Coach Brownell...talk about a lame duck.
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Trainer [42]
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Re: What I heard regarding Brownell situation.. FWIW...
Mar 20, 2017, 3:18 PM
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Of course Wade already had a deal with LSU
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