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Letterman [281]
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Clemson Baseball Grossly Underfunded?
Jun 12, 2015, 10:42 AM
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Very interesting study on what teams spent on baseball over a 10 year period, 2004-2013. The study purports to determine which teams got the most bang for their buck by comparing money spent to RPI. Feel free to spin the results however you see fit. But one thing is clear, Clemson is being grossly outspent by S.C. and others. I count 25 teams spending more than Clemson.
http://www.valuepenguin.com/2015/06/best-college-baseball-programs-past-decade
LSU averaged $4,326,420, which resulted in an average RPI of 19
Vanderbilt averaged $3,622,904, which resulted in an average RPI of 18
South Carolina averaged $3,371,874 per year, which resulted in an average RPI of 14.
Florida averaged $2,454,205, which resulted in an average RPI of 19
Clemson averaged $1,776,861, which resulted in an average RPI of 15
Coastal averaged $1,241,842, which resulted in an average RPI of 34
C of C averaged $815,000, which resulted in an average RPI of 46
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All-In [30766]
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Spin 1. Clemson facilities may not have been
Jun 12, 2015, 11:11 AM
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In as bad shape as those so needed less.
Spin 2.
Can you find a rpi comparison to scholarships?
Apparently Clemson is not on the same level as other schools which will gimp you more than new hot dog stands.
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Devotee [305]
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We are not under funded, but we are not spending as much as
Jun 12, 2015, 11:26 AM
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some other programs, but that's true in every sport. Alabama, Notre Dame, Texas, Michigan, and others have AD budgets twice as big as ours. The reality is most schools have AD's operating in the red. And despite what many on TNET think, Clemson has had a greatly diminished emphasis on sports since the Ford/McClellan/Atchley days. There are signs that post-Barker things may be changing. This hire by DRad will be a barometer of that as will BBall decisions made within a year or two following the Littlejohn renovation.
FWIW we seem to be getting a bigger bang for our buck. Our RPI was 15 and we ranked #7 by their metrics, but according to the OP our budget ranked 26th. With improved facilities (in process) and a new energetic coach breathing fresh air into the program and the future looks bright. Ad increased funding and big things should happen.
Big spending doesn't always mean wise spending. Just look at the decline in America's schools and infrastructure compared to the insane budgets and debt coming out of DC.
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Devotee [305]
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I should also add, we have the money. That's not the problem
Jun 12, 2015, 11:31 AM
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The administration has simply lacked the passion and willingness to be great. And our fan base has not held them accountable.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: I should also add, we have the money. That's not the problem
Jun 12, 2015, 11:34 AM
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great post!! this needs to change TODAY!!!!!!!!!!
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Devotee [305]
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I agree, but this article reveals some very interesting data
Jun 12, 2015, 12:27 PM
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When you dig into the data, money is NOT a key factor in success.
Cal State Fullerton - Since 1999 (Start of Super Regionals) 7 trips to Omaha, second only to Texas during that span. They also have 4 CWS titles. Their budget, per the linked article, is only $1,002,529 with an average RPI of 12.
From their media guide ...
Overwhelming resources are not in the picture. Fullerton is the only non-football school with more than one appearance in Omaha since 1999, and it operates its entire athletics department on a budget of about $9 million. Goodwin Field is a modest home facility built in 1992, expanded to 3,500 seats in 2000 and cast in the shadow of Angel Stadium, six miles down the street. Start with coaching, both on site and in the developmental youth leagues, high schools and community colleges in Southern California. Weather allows year-round play and the competition is keen. Augie Garrido, the winningest coach in Div. I history now at Texas, was the architect at Fullerton.
By comparison,
Boston College spends $1,078,967 and has an average RPI of 86. More money than Cal State, but poor results.
BYU - $1,004,978 - RPI 128
Auburn - $2,462,086 RPI 44
Arkansas - $2,481,598 RPI 18
Clemson - $1,776,861 - RPI 15
Coastal - $1,241,842 - RPI 34
Duke - $1,234,877 - RPI 117
Florida - $2,454,205 - RPI 19
LSU - $4,326,420 - RPI 19
FSU - $1,846,536 - RPI 11
FSU is not out spending us like some on here like to say.
The take-away ...
If these numbers are correct, money is not much of a factor. The keys are coaching and access to talent. In reality, we all know money is a factor, but to what degree? That's the debate. After a certain point more money isn't a benefit. LSU spends 2x as much as Miami and 4x as much as Cal State. Yet similar results.
As I've posted out before, if money decided championships, Texas, Michigan, and Oregon would be the top three in Football every year. No one on TNET would trade our current program for Texas or Michigan despite the fact that their AD budget dwarfs ours.
Money is a factor, but the keys are coaching and talent. But IMO there is also an invisible key ingredient, willingness to win and support from the administration.
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Letterman [281]
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Re: We are not under funded, but we are not spending as much as
Jun 12, 2015, 11:43 AM
[ in reply to We are not under funded, but we are not spending as much as ] |
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Part of the reason I posted this is to make it clear that we can do a lot more financially than we have been doing.
Monte Lee wants this job. The only thing that will prevent him (or McMullen) from taking the job is if Radakovich low balls him and his assistants. And, I am very concerned that this may happen. After all, one of his first acts as AD was to cut back on the number of baseballs the team was allowed to order each year. And that's not the only time he has cheaped out.
Jack was underpaid compared to a lot of ACC and SEC coaches. Anybody hired, with the possible exception of the guy from Maryland, will have to be paid more. And if you want the head guy to be successful you have to pay the assistants too.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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How is Fullerton pulling off such great success?***
Jun 12, 2015, 11:52 AM
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Legend [16900]
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Re: How is Fullerton pulling off such great success?***
Jun 12, 2015, 12:28 PM
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California is the number one state in the country for baseball recruits. Trumps even Texas in Perfect Game 500 players. They've been committed to baseball since the start of the program.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Re: How is Fullerton pulling off such great success?***
Jun 12, 2015, 12:40 PM
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California also has 24 of the 295 division 1 baseball schools, so there's a ton of competition for those recruits.
Their stadium is a joke compared to ours, and I'm not sure you can say they're committed to baseball when they spend an average of 3/4 of a million dollars less than us every year.
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Devotee [305]
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Interesting that they do not have a FB program, which only a
Jun 12, 2015, 12:48 PM
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few schools with no FB have made it to Omaha. Interpretation ... commitment and emphasis on sports?
Total AD budget $9m
But look who built their program and the talent and competition in their back yard.
Imagine not having to travel more than 100 miles in any direction to recruit.
Look at Miami, same situation. Tons of local latin talent within a 60 mile radius and great coaching.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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The 100-120 mile radius around Clemson is pretty talent-rich
Jun 12, 2015, 1:34 PM
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You get the entire upstate and most of the midlands and peedee and all the way down to Augusta in SC.
In NC you get Charlotte, Asheville, Hickory, and most of the NC mountains.
Knoxville and pretty much everything east of it.
In Georgia of course you have the Atlanta metro which has some of the best baseball in the country and a population equal to that of the entire state of SC.
I'm not saying it's as big of a population base to draw from as LA and San Diego, but it's nothing to sneeze at.
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Devotee [305]
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Very true. Makes you wonder why Jack was recruitng in
Jun 12, 2015, 1:45 PM
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Washington and Maine while Tanner was kicking our butts with SC kids that grew up wanting to play for Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [2862]
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Re: Very true. Makes you wonder why Jack was recruitng in
Jun 12, 2015, 5:21 PM
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They wanted to play for Clemson, but were more than willing to go to SC and play for "free" because they would get their partial baseball scholarship plus whatever other scholarship they would qualify for at the "Columbia Downtown Daycare."
I thought we beat this "all those players wanted to play at Clemson" thing to death already.
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Devotee [305]
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It is well known that numerous kids that played at uscjr.
Jun 12, 2015, 5:49 PM
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were huge Clemson fans and Jack didn't recruit them or barely showed interest. It has been well documented here on TNET. It has zero to do with scholarships. Baseball scholarships are over rated. They don't cover much, which is why there are so few blacks in college baseball. This is why many schools are taking advantage of the new rules, especially rich private schools.
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Devotee [305]
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MVP [505]
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Re: Clemson Baseball Grossly Underfunded?
Jun 12, 2015, 12:33 PM
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So what you are saying is that Clemson got good value for its budget spending on baseball with an average RPI of 15, right? What was wrong with that?
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Devotee [305]
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Under achieving. With an avg. RPI of 15 we should be going
Jun 12, 2015, 12:38 PM
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to the Super Regionals almost every year and the CWS OFTEN!
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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I agree with you, but I am sure others will refute the facts***
Jun 12, 2015, 5:33 PM
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Devotee [305]
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We are only trailing a handful of programs, but the link
Jun 12, 2015, 6:00 PM
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he provides proves that money is not really a major factor in success. We spend nearly 2x as much as Cal State and they are every bit as successful as Miami and LSU and have 4 CWS titles. Only a few of the programs that out spend us have superior success.
FYI This is NOT opinion, but fact. The numbers are very clear and quite surprising.
USCjr. won their 2 titles using a loophole that spit on the spirit of the rules and made a mockery of the idea of "student-athlete". A loophole the NCAA closed.
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