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Replies: 16
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All-In [28802]
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Watson's competition vs. Stoudt's competition
Oct 28, 2014, 11:49 AM
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Bringing this to the top from another thread... What do you think?
Watson is clearly a much more dynamic player than Stoudt, and Watson really opens up our downfield passing game. However, Watson's two starts in which we racked up the yards and scored a bunch of points were against seriously bad defenses. However, the stretch of defenses from UofL to Wake are all ranked in the top 50, and UofL and BC are ranked in the top 10. Here's a little aside: 7 of the top 30 defenses are from the ACC, and 9 ACC teams are in the top 42. Clemson will be playing its 4th of those teams in a row when it takes on Wake, and will have played 5 top 50 defenses at that point (adding UGa). Stoudt will have started 4 out of 5 of the games against those top 50 defenses and played the majority of snaps in all of them, while Watson will have played the majority of snaps against none of them.
We saw Watson really struggle starting out against UofL, and while I think he would've gotten better as the game went along (he'd have to have, because his game was horrible up to that point), I don't think we were going to see 435 yards passing and 6 TDs like against UNC. Let's also remember that while Watson played well against FSU in his first start, his numbers weren't all that gaudy. He passed for 266 with no TDs, and he rushed for only 6 more yards than Stoudt on 3 times the carries. Yes, we should've scored more in that game, but there have been mistakes that cost us point with Stoudt at QB, too.
Luckily for Watson, he'll be returning to face two defenses that may be even worse than UNC and NC State in GT and SCar. NC State was the best of the bunch that he faced at 69th overall, while GT is 85th and South Carolina is 89th. Though UNC is ranked lower in total defense than both GT and SCar, they actually give up less yards per play than both of those teams.
Another interesting stat: GT and SCar give up almost 3 (!) yards per play more than UofL, and they give up almost 2 yards per play more than BC.
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110%er [7207]
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Re: Watson's competition vs. Stoudt's competition
Oct 28, 2014, 12:01 PM
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I certainly think quality of defense has an impact on the production difference. IMO that's where Watson is that much more important though. He moves around and buys time so much better than Cole. The combination of our offensive line struggling and those top couple of defenses makes it really tough for CS.
As a side note, it's crazy how much better CS looks when he gets into a rhythm. I know part of that has to do with a tempo offense getting that first first down, but some of it has to be him.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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agreed. i think he actually plays better when he "reacts"
Oct 28, 2014, 12:04 PM
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, then when he has time to "think" about the progressions.
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All-In [38427]
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Re: agreed. i think he actually plays better when he "reacts"
Oct 28, 2014, 12:05 PM
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Horse . Dead. Beaten .
Go Tigers
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Head Coach [758]
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Re: Watson's competition vs. Stoudt's competition
Oct 28, 2014, 12:27 PM
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Stoudt has 10 less TDs on 70 more attempts and 3 more turnovers than Watson. That is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW. There is no justifying Stoudt. He is the worst QB to start at Clemson since I have been watching in the mid 90s.
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null [10]
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Re: Watson's competition vs. Stoudt's competition
Oct 28, 2014, 3:12 PM
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Stout > Will Proctor
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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cole didn't move the ball vs those defenses
Oct 28, 2014, 12:31 PM
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and it's not like syracuse was a steel curtain defense either.
look, I understand that we all like cole and he's a good kid, etc... but seeing posts trying to either justify or defend cole's play/ability is nauseating. I'm assuming these posters are the vocal minority b/c the reaction of the ENTIRE clemson stadium was FAR from justifying cole.
He's who we have right now and I'm just hoping we can weather this cole storm one more game before (hopefully) getting watson back.
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All-In [28802]
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I'm cheering for Stoudt like I'd cheer for anybody
Oct 28, 2014, 12:46 PM
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The point of this post isn't to be a cheerleader for Stoudt or to try to claim he's some kind of great talent. The point of it is that we've managed to win games against some good defenses, and that while Stoudt's stats aren't very good and Watson's stas are very good, you might've expected that given the opponents.
What you're saying is entirely based on emotion ("seeing posts trying to... defend Cole's play/ability is nauseating" because "the reaction of the ENTIRE Clemson stadium was FAR from justifying Cole."), even if it is partly justified. I don't really see any argument there except that you hate to see anybody say anything even moderately in defense of Stoudt. But- and the stats on the defenses we've played show this- maybe Stoudt's numbers are deflated a little bit by the competition, while Watson's are inflated a little bit by the competition.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Re: I'm cheering for Stoudt like I'd cheer for anybody
Oct 28, 2014, 12:53 PM
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i don't think anybody expects watson to throw for 400+ and 6 TDs every game, but his talents/reads/ability to throw on run.....and/or RUN allow him to have better success than cole
i don't think watson was throwing for 500 yards vs louisville, I do, however believe he was good for at least 10+ points......I don't think watson makes the bad decision cole did at the end of the half to go away with no points.........and the BC game nor the syracuse game was a "nail biter" with watson in the game.
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Oculus Spirit [93662]
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But we know that Dabo either lied or is incompetent.
Oct 28, 2014, 12:34 PM
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Stats mean nothing if you already know that your HC is a lying incompetent cheerleader.
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CU Guru [1950]
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Adjusted QBR, which accounts for the quality of defenses:
Oct 28, 2014, 1:01 PM
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Deshaun Watson 88.5 - 3rd in NCAAF
Cole Stoudt 48.0 - 89th in NCAAF
Total Expected Points Added:
Deshaun Watson: 25.8
Cole Stoudt: -0.7
Stoudt's shown improvement, and is almost statistically an average QB now, but to even compare him to Watson is pretty dumb, especially after a 3 turnover and just 1 offensive TD performance against a pretty bad Syracuse team.
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All-In [28802]
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Please read the first sentence.
Oct 28, 2014, 1:41 PM
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Thanks. Nowehere did I come close to saying that Stoudt was better than Watson. The only point was to highlight the quality of defenses both have played, because I don't think Stoudt is as bad as some on here seem to want to believe.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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CU Guru [1950]
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I read it, and then I read the rest of your post...
Oct 28, 2014, 2:30 PM
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There's nothing wrong with my comprehension skills.
Your whole post was a comparison of Watson and Stoudt. You came to the correct conclusion that Watson is better than Stoudt, but you also suggest that Stoudt may actually be better than he appears and closer to Watson because Stoudt had the unfortunate task of going against tougher defenses.
I then provided statistics that were adjusted for the quality of defense faced, which show that Stoudt is still, by all measures, a below average QB. These same stats show that, even with quality of defense adjusted for, Watson is still one of the top QBs in the country.
In summary, I disagree with your premise that Stoudt isn't as bad as some are making hium out to be. The gap between the 2 QBs is enormous and it's my opinion that the offense's failures the past few games are almost entirely a result of a QB who is an average talent who doesn't fit the offensive system at all. I don't think any of the 3 games (UL, BC, or Syracuse) would have been within 14 points had Watson not missed a snap.
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Scout Team [150]
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Oh, come one, it doesn't take a genius or statistics. . .
Oct 28, 2014, 1:12 PM
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to be able to know if a player has it or doesn't. Stoudt clearly does not have the skills to compete at much of a level at any FBS type school. His arm, mobility, and most importantly decision making are lacking all over the place. Nearly every throw he makes (outside of the simple throws in the flats) is late. Late throws are routinely picked off, and they totally neutralize the athletic advantage the Clemson receivers have over most of their competition. I would include the touchdown pass to Seckinger on Saturday as a late throw. He was wide open for most of the route, and that throw was nearly picked off because it was late.
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Oculus Spirit [81892]
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"at much of a level at any FBS type school"
Oct 28, 2014, 3:12 PM
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That's beyond wrong.
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Mascot [23]
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Re: Watson's competition vs. Stoudt's competition
Oct 28, 2014, 1:35 PM
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People and their numbers make me want to kick puppies....
I just hope that Deshaun Watson, Mike Williams, Tay Scott, Gallman, Dye, CJ Davidson, and the entire Clemson D hate the Gamecocks and Ga. Tech as much as I do.
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All-TigerNet [10345]
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Re: Watson's competition vs. Stoudt's competition
Oct 28, 2014, 3:53 PM
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All the cute stats aside,I will take my chances with Watson ANY day over Cole.
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Replies: 16
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50
