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YOUR BALANCE
WCCP this morning making excuses for
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WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 11:16 AM

Clemson baseball and why it is so difficult to compete. Some of the same people who were advocating for Jack Legget's firing a few years ago. They were not making excuses for Jack back then. Jack had the same obstacles as Monte and Monte was given better facilities. Facilities built off of Jack's hall of fame success. And then mentioned the downward trend coinciding with the increased obstacles faced by Clemson and not some other schools. No crap. Some of us were saying this way back then. But it took firing a hall of fame coach for some folks to come around. I like Monte and hope he succeeds. But no excuses for Jack, no excuses for Monte. Monte has much better facilities than Jack ever had.

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 11:24 AM

WRONG AGAIN. MICKEY COMPLAINED ABOUT THE SAME DISADVANTAGES BACK THEN. I WAS AND ARE A HUGE LEGGETT FAN BUT HE WAS VERY HARD HEADED AND WOULD NOT AGREE TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE STAFF. HENCE HE IS GONE. AND DO NOT THINK YOU HAVE HEARD MONTE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE UNEVEN PLAYING FIELD THAT ACTUALLY DOES EXIST. THAT BEING SAID IF OUR PITCHERS HEALTH IS GOOD ALL YEAR THIS TEAM COULD GO FAR.

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 12:03 PM

^^^^ lay off the caps key my man

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 12:14 PM

You aren't from around here, are you?

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"Dabo crushed my soul." --- Classof09


Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 13, 2020, 2:20 AM

The man can’t stop screaming it’s extremely annoying

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 12:58 PM [ in reply to Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for ]

Alright, maybe I misremember which wccp hosts were all aboard the fire Leggett campaign. That's fair. No reason to holler. You call it hard headed, I call it loyalty. The nice thing about it is that Leggett was just as loyal to Clemson as he was his assistant coaches as he had opportunities to leave for more green early in his career. Or maybe that was just his being hard headed. It's been interesting to see how things have played out since he was fired. When he left Seth Beer, Logan Davidson and the likes along with much improved facilities that Jack fought hard for. Too bad better things have not been made of that.

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 1:31 PM

YOU GOT TO REMEMBER ALSO THE LAST 2 OR 3 YEARS FOR JACK WASNT VERY GOOD EITHER. IF I REMEMBER WE WON 30 HIS LAST YEAR. FACT IS IT IS AN UNEVEN FIELD. WE GOT TO GET IMAGINATIVE AND RECRUIT GUYS THAT WANT TO PLAY HERE.

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 2:14 PM [ in reply to Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for ]

Sir, your caps lock is on.

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 2:19 PM

HAVE NOT NOTICED

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for- ACCN


Feb 12, 2020, 12:12 PM

was talking baseball briefly this morning on P&D. Louisville coach was the guest. I dont think we got even a mention. Maybe we will surprise some folks. We are definitely not on the radar screen

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 1:15 PM

If you think the program has trended downward since Monte took over then you weren't watching Jack's last few years.

Yes both Jack's last years and Monte's first years have included losing in regionals every season.

The difference is that Jack did not host a regional in his last 4 years.

Monte has hosted regionals in 3 out of 4.

Further into those regionals:

In his last 4 years Jack lost games to scar x2, Liberty x2, Oregon by 17 runs, Xavier, Arizona St, & Pepperdine.

Monte's losses in regionals: Oklahoma St x2, Vanderbilt x4, Ole Miss, & Jacksonville St.

Clemson has also won 25 more baseball games in Monte's first 4 years than they did in Jack's last 4.

Monte has not done what people are hoping for, and Jack Legette is a Hall of Fame coach to whom Clemson's owes a ton.

However, just because Legette was great does not mean the change was not made at the right time. Monte has improved the program. Hopefully he is still improving and hasn't hit a plateau.

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 1:33 PM

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for
Posted: Feb 12, 2020 1:15 PM
Reply

If you think the program has trended downward since Monte took over then you weren't watching Jack's last few years.

Yes both Jack's last years and Monte's first years have included losing in regionals every season.

The difference is that Jack did not host a regional in his last 4 years.

Monte has hosted regionals in 3 out of 4.

Further into those regionals:

In his last 4 years Jack lost games to scar x2, Liberty x2, Oregon by 17 runs, Xavier, Arizona St, & Pepperdine.

Monte's losses in regionals: Oklahoma St x2, Vanderbilt x4, Ole Miss, & Jacksonville St.

Clemson has also won 25 more baseball games in Monte's first 4 years than they did in Jack's last 4.

Monte has not done what people are hoping for, and Jack Legette is a Hall of Fame coach to whom Clemson's owes a ton.

However, just because Legette was great does not mean the change was not made at the right time. Monte has improved the program. Hopefully he is still improving and hasn't hit a plateau.


PLEASE SIR DO NOT BRING FACTS TO THIS BOARD.

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 1:36 PM

The main reason I typed it all out is because when I decided to give it a look I was shocked at how much improvement there was in Monte's 1st 3 years.

Last year was down.

Hoping the pitching staff will stay relatively healthy this year so we can bounce back.

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 2:06 PM

yep key is strider and rayfield. new guys have lots of promise also

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 12, 2020, 2:29 PM

Unfortunately we may not know what we have in them for a couple of outings until they can switch back to game mode from rehab mode. Throw Sharpe in that group too.

It's takes longer for some than others.

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what’s a few examples they gave to why it is


Feb 13, 2020, 4:50 AM

An uneven playing field? Seems like we are pumping some $$$$ into the program. No? Just still on par with facilities and recruiting budget as others? Coaches salaries not as high as others?

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Re: what’s a few examples they gave to why it is


Feb 13, 2020, 10:51 AM

They're referencing, mostly, Vandy's (and other private schools with similar programs) advantage at recruiting b/c of "Opportunity Vanderbilt" scholarship program that lowers the cost of school, without counting against the 11.7 scholarship limits.


https://www.anchorofgold.com/2019/5/30/18645077/opportunity-vanderbilt-an-explainer

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Re: what’s a few examples they gave to why it is


Feb 13, 2020, 11:00 AM

I don't believe it is restricted to private schools.

There are a couple of ways that schools add scholarships to their athletic programs without cutting into their NCAA allotment.

One is by having an endowment set up for families below a certain income to receive reduced tuition. The numbers for the family income are much higher than you would expect for this sort of thing, but because it is available to all students it can be used for athletes also. Clemson does not have this. This can be used by private or public schools.

The other way is by introducing minority scholarships to the general student body. The same rule applies that if it's given to all then it can be given to athletes. I don't believe Clemson has this either. This is also for private or public schools.

There may be other ways that schools are getting around it as well, but these are two big ways.

I know when I was being recruited, I had a couple of coaches from private schools that told me there was a certain amount of academic money allotted for athletes and that GPA and SAT/ACT numbers determined how much each player could receive. It worked similar to general students, but I was told there was certain money set aside for partial scholarship sports athletes to help with tuition costs. This doesn't apply to all athletes because of the academic requirements but I'm sure it's not hard to stretch those numbers and give more money when needed to get a kid to sign. Obviously Clemson gives academic scholarships to baseball players, but as a public university they may have to be a little more transparent about where their academic scholarships can go.

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Re: WCCP this morning making excuses for


Feb 13, 2020, 11:28 AM

Whether you like the “excuses” or not, they’re 100% validated. Clemson baseball only has 11.7 scholarships to allot, but a roster of 35 players to fill. So you’ll have roughly 23 players without a scholarship, so those will most likely be in-state guys paying in-state tuition. You think you can a recruit a bunch of out-of-state guys to come play baseball for $37,000 a year? It doesn’t matter if those guys are better than the in-state players and you’d rather have them, they’re not coming to pay to play. Meanwhile, a place like Vanderbilt has 27 scholarships to allot, which means only 8 guys won’t be on scholarship. You tell me which team is likely to get better players.

Not to mention that the highly rated players Clemson is able to land are likely to leave for the MLB. Clemson could have had a National Championship team if every commit had foregone the MLB draft.

So, significantly fewer scholarships than the competition and a broken draft system that keeps the best players out of college...it’s actually a miracle how decent Clemson has been all this time

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