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Zealot [751]
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Joined: 2/18/99
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The bar has been lowered.
Nov 27, 2012, 9:09 AM
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I will never be ok with losing to Sukolina. But FOUR years in a row? You all realize our best win came against Ball State, right? The fact that some of you are ok with this just because it's a 10-win season tells me just how far the bar has been lowered.
Facts about Dabo and his "moving the program in the right direction."
Dabo is 6-11 against top 25 opponents, 1-3 in bowl games, 1-4 against Sukolina, 2-4 against GT, 2-3 against FSU. Dabo did not have to rebuild Clemson's program. By the time Tommy was fired or quit, the Tigers were a 8/9 a year team with players like CJ Spiller, Jacoby Ford, and DaQuan Bowers.
From a big game perspective, Tommy could win the if game- bowl games, the Sukolina game, FSU, GT, etc. His problem was that he lost games he shouldn't lose. Dabo on the other hand wins all the games the Tigers should win. Given the ACC is terrible conference, Clemson should be winning 10 a year.
In my eyes there is no difference between Tommy and Dabo. Both are hard working good men. However, Tommy never got over the hump. Dabo won't either. Dabo is coaching at his full potential right now.
We are headed toward 5 in a row, but I guess that's ok with some of you. You love Dabo. Fine. Just don't forget the FACTS I stated earlier.
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Orange Blooded [2705]
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Joined: 10/12/09
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^^^Wrong^^^^
Nov 27, 2012, 9:15 AM
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Let the dust settle a little, so you'll be less emotional when you state your "facts".
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All-In [39020]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/20/04
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Is he wrong about something in particular...
Nov 27, 2012, 10:18 AM
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or are you just ignoring the evidence?
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All-Conference [435]
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Re: Is he wrong about something in particular...
Jan 11, 2013, 12:49 PM
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If you listen to what some of the players like Dalton Freeman said, there was a loser this-is-our-ceiling mentality within the program. That doesn't change overnight. if this is Dabo's peak, which I don't believe, then at least he will leave us in better shape than Bowden did. Have you considered that the Sakerlina teams we've played the last 4 years are lightyears better than any of the chicken squads that Tommy beat?
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Re: Is he wrong about something in particular...
Jan 11, 2013, 4:57 PM
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Exactly Carolina has been FAR better then any carolina team bowden faced. Plus SC (like the rest of the SEC) takes two weeks to prpare for their ACC counterparts. Yea I'm sure SC practices a full week for the Citadel....not.
Dabo is light years better then bowden. He's selfless, taking big pay cuts to give more money to his assistants. He's recruiting better. He has a real OC, DC to be determined. Bowden just threw the dod gamned screen pass every play. Is that coaching to you? Plus the SEC wasn't the hype monster it is now when Tommy was here. Dabo recruits in the middle of the SEC and still manages to bring in amazing players. He probably has one of the harder jobs in football and is doing an excellent job.
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Re: Is he wrong about something in particular...
Jan 11, 2013, 4:58 PM
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PLUS whenever Tommy was losing a game, even a horrible team like maryland, he would just give up. Dabo doesn't do that.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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People in Siberia probably don't know that we have
Jan 11, 2013, 12:54 PM
[ in reply to Is he wrong about something in particular... ] |
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lost to the coots 4 years in a row. What do y'all want us to do? What could us FANS do to have kept this from happening? New coaches every year? Scream, roll on the floor, pitch 10 fits a day, post it on the board several times a day? WHAT DO WE DO????? Inquiring minds want to know. Does posting it over and over and over make it go away????? WHAT DO WE DO??????? Come on experts tell us WHAT DO WE DO??????
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110%er [5012]
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What do we do? - Just beat 'em - then all will be ok***
Jan 11, 2013, 7:28 PM
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Facts may be facts
Nov 27, 2012, 9:17 AM
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but thinking Ball State is a better win than NC State because some computer says so is foolish. Also, you have to watch the games to know the difference between the Bowden teams and the Dabo teams. You can see the talent difference on the field. Dabo is bringing in those better players. I wouldn't expect someone wrapped up in statistics to understand.
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Trainer [36]
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Re: Facts may be facts
Jan 11, 2013, 2:22 PM
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I don't think any real Clemson fan will accept losing to SC, but you have to take an objective look at the past fours years. In two of those years we lost to the two best teams in SC football history, both 11 win teams. If Bowden had been our coach during those same years, we might have been beaten by 50+ in those games. Dabo is bringing in equal or better talent and he is changing the culture of Clemson football back to the tough mentality we had in the '80s and early '90s. We should not lose to SC four years in a row, but these are not the same weak SC teams that we dominated for 100 years. We have more to offer at Clemson, better facilities, a far more beautiful campus and city, and to me a better future post degree, but Steve Spurrier and the SEC propaganda machine ESPN have helped SC get to a level that they have never been. As a Clemson fan of 40 years, the last four have been the very difficult, but in my lifetime we are 26-12-2 against those sorry sacks of #####, so I am quite sure we are all on the right side. This rivalry will swing back our way and when it does, we will all appreciate that much more, having gone through the past 4 years. Dabo and the current staff will get the job done. Just my humble opinion. Go Tigers!
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Rooter [218]
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Dabo was responsible for signing that talent you speak of
Nov 27, 2012, 9:20 AM
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Fire a coach thats 10-2 and improving every year overall and you will be laughed at just because you cant beat a team that just happens to have the best teams in their whole history of playing football.
Clemson is better since Bowden and dramatically better since Tommy West etc.
Even when Danny was coaching people fussed about not using the TE enough, losing to GT when we had superior teams, losing to #### Sheridan coached NC State teams, etc. Fact is Danny went 10-2 many years when he had the talent to run the table especially considering who they played. Danny barely had a winning record against SC himself. Love the guy but if thats who all Clemson fans measure their coaches to, then Dabo is on his way to being a great one.
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Zealot [751]
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Joined: 2/18/99
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Have you watched Clemson play defense?
Nov 27, 2012, 9:21 AM
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The last two years has been awful on defense. And I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed with an offense that can blowout Duke but can't score a second half TD against Sukolina.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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How about dominating LSU in all areas of the game??
Jan 11, 2013, 12:59 PM
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Finishing in top 10 for the year. Yea, really been a disaster of a year.
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Scout Team [193]
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Joined: 11/26/11
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Half Full vs Half Empty take on this:
Nov 27, 2012, 9:21 AM
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Half full- Dabo's first class was tiny and we are feeling the direct effects of this. The staff did a good job getting 10 wins out of this team with low seniority.
Half empty- Most new coaches have their best season in year 3 or 4 and then kind of taper off some. It's odd but true. USC's recent success kind of bucks this stat, but they are the exception rather than the rule. First, their program sucked when Spurrier took over. Also, he's a great coach who stayed committed to getting it done, just as USC stayed committed to him, even when they faltered early on. Obviously, the pro Dabo faction would point to this as a reason to stay the course.
I don't know what to think. I kind of fall more half empty, but since he's not going anywhere, I'm trying to stay a little bit optimistic. I will say this though. If Dabo is any good as a head coach, there should be at least a little bit of interest in him from some of the open jobs. Folks outside of a situation are much better at being objective than those inside of it.
I have never gotten the impression that those outside of the Clemson program think that much of Dabo as a head coach, yet he's up for coach of the year. That truly is odd, when you think about it.
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All-In [47623]
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Joined: 12/22/98
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Facts
Nov 27, 2012, 9:24 AM
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Bowden averaged 7.6 wins per year - do the math
Dabo averaging 8.6 wins per year - again, do the math
Bowden got 8/9 wins only 5 times in 9 years. Never got 10 wins. Dabo has gotten 10 wins twice and 9 wins once, and as you state, wins all the games he is supposed to win.
The point of this post is not to defend Dabo, because you are correct with all your other numbers re: top 25 teams, Sukolina, etc and there is reason for concern. I have been All In, but as of right now I am only "sorta" All In. But Dabo has done a better job than Bowden, IMO, the numbers prove that.
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Zealot [751]
TigerPulse: 57%
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Joined: 2/18/99
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Re-read what I wrote. "By the time Tommy was fired..."
Nov 27, 2012, 9:34 AM
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I'm implying that Tommy had to work to get Clemson to an 8/9 win a season level. The program Dabo took over was in much better shape than the mess Tommy inherited.
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All-In [47623]
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No need, I saw it the first time. 8 wins, 8 wins, 9 wins,
Nov 27, 2012, 9:36 AM
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then holy shi!t we're so bad we have to fire our coach in the middle of the season. Bowden did a lot of great things for Clemson, no doubt. Just didn't win quite enough.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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losing 4 in a row to SCar = NOT A GOOD JOB......
Nov 27, 2012, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to Facts ] |
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don't get me wrong Dabo has done some good things, but when you look through the "smoke and mirrors" it's much less impressive than on the surface.
since 2009 the ACC has gone from BAD to "AWFUL PATHETIC BAD"
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All-In [47623]
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Correct, and I agreed to that in my post***
Nov 27, 2012, 9:51 AM
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CU Guru [1363]
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how good was the ACC during the Danny Ford years?
Jan 11, 2013, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to losing 4 in a row to SCar = NOT A GOOD JOB...... ] |
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Probably worse than it is now. Dabo is having to go against the best the ACC has ever been (you can't even argue it's not better with FSU, Va Tech than without), plus the best scar teams ever. I'm not going to defend Dabo til the cows come home, but I will defend him in that he's the 2nd best coach we've ever had.
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Fan [60]
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Joined: 11/25/06
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Re: how good was the ACC during the Danny Ford years?
Jan 11, 2013, 11:54 AM
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I guess you have it
Ford
Dabo
Howard
Personally I have it
Howard
Ford
Dabo
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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the acc has never been a good conference, this is not
Nov 27, 2012, 9:25 AM
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bowden's 0-21 scar teams and yes, i was very fed up to losing to a 2 win duke team after knocking off daU.
stupid ####### argument.
georgia has lost 3 games in a row to scar for the first time in their history. stop with the bowden beat a ###### team crap. stop with the acc sucks crap, it sucked when ford was losing to a 7-4 duke team.
woohoo, "acc circus, 8 clowns and 1 wild tiger".
the acc is taking a bloodbath now because conference affiliation is at a premium. it used to be a lose configuration of like minded teams brought together for the purpose of sports.
they are now viewed differently and the acc is being shown for what it always has been; a weak football conference.
why miami, fsu, clemson, gt[the acc owned 9 of 20 national championships] when daU was approached in 2002 have #### the bed i don't know. it blows the mind.
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Zealot [751]
TigerPulse: 57%
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Joined: 2/18/99
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BOOM!!!
Nov 27, 2012, 9:25 AM
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What this guy said! If Dabo was so great, why isn't he talked about as a candidate for major openings?
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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Uh, he's rumored as a big candidate for Tennessee***
Nov 27, 2012, 9:37 AM
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Zealot [751]
TigerPulse: 57%
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Joined: 2/18/99
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Link?***
Nov 27, 2012, 9:39 AM
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Trainer [43]
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All-TigerNet [10354]
TigerPulse: 84%
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1st Rounder [626]
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Joined: 9/2/03
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Re: HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov 27, 2012, 10:49 AM
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What big time openings?
of all the current openings, none are better than Clemson right now.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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KA-BOOM!! Direct hit!!!!!***
Jan 11, 2013, 1:05 PM
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All-In [39020]
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Legend [16207]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Why isn't Spurlid talked about as a candidate for...
Jan 11, 2013, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to BOOM!!! ] |
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...major openings?
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All-In [49613]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 12/10/98
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When you're head coach of Heaven, why go anywhere else?***
Jan 11, 2013, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to BOOM!!! ] |
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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Joined: 11/9/04
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disagree with one statement...........
Nov 27, 2012, 9:26 AM
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"Dabo on the other hand wins all the games the Tigers should win"
don't know what the definition of "SHOULD" is, but he's lost games he "SHOULDA" won all 4 years he's been the head coach
we were favored by 6.5 over SCar.......and regardless of what vegas says there's NO EXCUSE to lose to SCar when you are
AT home
AT night
Sugar bowl on the line
playing against a 2nd string QB and RB
sorry, but he's been out coached AT LEAST 2 of the 4 years (2009 & 2012 for sure, 2011 is debateable, 2010 we sucked b/c his mistake of hiring billy napier)
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110%er [7157]
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Joined: 6/27/07
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wouldn't it be awesome to say eff it and go hire Petrino?
Nov 27, 2012, 9:28 AM
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at least before someone else does. Because someone else is going to eventually hire the guy and they'll be in the top 10 in about 2-3 years. Yes, you would be signing your reputation over but you'd be national title contending team in a matter of years. So theres your trade off. And maybe he's learned his lesson about being an idiot, doubt it. But if Clemson pulled a news conference today and said that i'd be okay with it.
Heck with the talent we have he could probably have us undefeated by next year. Just a crazy thought. I like dabo and company....but Petrino is about a sure thing in coaching as it gets...its just a toss up as to what his standing is in 4-5 years.
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All-Conference [439]
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Joined: 11/6/07
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Since we are doing this again today
Nov 27, 2012, 9:29 AM
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No NCAA football coach will get fired after 10 wins unless he murders someone. That is a fact.
This is pointless just like yesterday.
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Oculus Spirit [78823]
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James Cameron raised it
Nov 27, 2012, 9:30 AM
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You are wrong
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Zealot [751]
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Hahaha- took me a second.
Nov 27, 2012, 9:35 AM
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I love SP references.
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: The bar has been lowered.
Nov 27, 2012, 9:38 AM
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It is what it is and we are stuck for now.
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Mascot [24]
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Re: The bar has been lowered.
Nov 27, 2012, 9:55 AM
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USC had 83 million in revenue last year.we had 58.2 million so how do we compete
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Rooter [227]
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Re: The bar has been lowered.
Nov 27, 2012, 10:06 AM
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That's what scares me. Add in the fact that some are deserting the ACC we have some hard decisions to make.
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Zealot [751]
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Joined: 2/18/99
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Clemson is only middle of the pack in terms of revenue.
Nov 27, 2012, 10:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: The bar has been lowered. ] |
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In the ACC, Clemson is behind UNC, VT, Virginia, FSU, Maryland, etc. The fact that we don't bring in what they do doesn't seem to hold us back.
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1st Rounder [626]
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Re: The bar has been lowered.
Nov 27, 2012, 10:03 AM
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TB is only remembered for being 7-2 vs SC and winning a big game here and there (usually at a time to save his job)
0-4 vs VT
0-3 vs BC
4-5 vs GT
4-5 vs FSU
5-5 vs Md
13-22 vs ranked teams
2-5 in bowl games
1-5 vs rest of SEC
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Zealot [751]
TigerPulse: 57%
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Joined: 2/18/99
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TB ain't the standard either.***
Nov 27, 2012, 10:41 AM
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All-TigerNet [10863]
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Agree.
***
Nov 27, 2012, 10:05 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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I'd ask if you still feel this way, but we know you do...***
Jan 11, 2013, 11:13 AM
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110%er [9107]
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Re: I'd ask if you still feel this way, but we know you do...***
Jan 11, 2013, 11:17 AM
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So take me away, I don't mind
But you better promise me, I'll be back in time
Gotta get back in time
Gotta get back in time
Get me back in time
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Heisman Winner [139852]
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Orange Blooded [4693]
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Re: Did somebody just get served? This should be interesting.******
Jan 11, 2013, 11:53 AM
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CU Guru [1878]
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110%er [9107]
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Joined: 11/5/05
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25-24***
Jan 11, 2013, 11:18 AM
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CU Medallion [51524]
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Thank god our best win isn't over Ball State.***
Jan 11, 2013, 11:23 AM
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All-TigerNet [10863]
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Amen***
Jan 11, 2013, 11:36 AM
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Amen***
Jan 11, 2013, 11:40 AM
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poor Uttles
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CU Guru [1898]
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Joined: 11/7/01
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Thanks, I didn't
Jan 11, 2013, 11:35 AM
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know I was so stupid. Going through life always smelling something bad is a heckuva way to live.
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CU Guru [1898]
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Joined: 11/6/04
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This is exactly how people complained about Ford in the 80s
Jan 11, 2013, 11:43 AM
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All I have to say. Whiner, flamer, will be whining in 20 years about needing a coach as good as Dabo.
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CU Medallion [51870]
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Really, why bring back such an old post?***
Jan 11, 2013, 1:04 PM
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***
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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So people can learn to calm down? That's my guess.***
Jan 11, 2013, 1:07 PM
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Orange Blooded [2430]
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i think Dabo's a great coach. not his fault the Acc is down and most good players go to sec***
Jan 11, 2013, 1:19 PM
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All-In [36207]
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I'm Dumber For Having Read This Post
Jan 11, 2013, 1:46 PM
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So Ball State > LSU ????
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Legend [19352]
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Re: I'm Dumber For Having Read This Post
Jan 11, 2013, 2:22 PM
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Not sure if serious... check the date of the OP.
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CU Guru [1878]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 1864
Joined: 1/22/12
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Re: I'm Dumber For Having Read This Post
Jan 11, 2013, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to I'm Dumber For Having Read This Post ] |
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This post was from November. It just got bumped back up to show people the dangers of overreacting.
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110%er [8244]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7565
Joined: 1/1/11
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If you don't like ridding the bus--Don't buy a ticket***
Jan 11, 2013, 1:51 PM
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CU Guru [1669]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2314
Joined: 1/20/03
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ridding the bus of what?***
Jan 11, 2013, 1:53 PM
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Heisman Winner [139852]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33839
Joined: 12/5/10
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The bus of reckoning.
Jan 11, 2013, 2:03 PM
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Origin: Clemson, SC
Destination: Atlanta, GA
Delivery: Confirmed 12/31/2012.
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110%er [8244]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7565
Joined: 1/1/11
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Bus---Train---Plane or any other name
Jan 11, 2013, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to ridding the bus of what?*** ] |
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when trying to talk about Clemson Tigers Football
negatively has never produced positive results
the past has very little reflection on future outcome
unless you do the same and expect a different outcome
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Heisman Winner [139852]
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Joined: 12/5/10
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Exactly.***
Jan 11, 2013, 2:20 PM
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Orange Blooded [2965]
TigerPulse: 87%
Posts: 3036
Joined: 10/13/08
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Re: The bar has been lowered.
Jan 11, 2013, 2:12 PM
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This is all you ever post about. The 11 wins may not mean anything to you however they were good enough for a top 10 finish! Honestly go pull for someother team! Like the Steelers.
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Orange Blooded [3794]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6026
Joined: 3/16/03
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These casual people who don't
Jan 11, 2013, 2:21 PM
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Have a clue about inner workings make me laugh. Schools talk to agents to measure a coaches interest in leaving or taking another job. They knew that there was no job out there this year that would even tempt Dabo to leave on of the best jobs in the South
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Orange Blooded [3794]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6026
Joined: 3/16/03
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Spurrier and Saban are pretty
Jan 11, 2013, 2:23 PM
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Good coaches and their name didn't come up at any other school either
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Team Captain [450]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 713
Joined: 11/27/11
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Dabo is 2-3 in bowl games and 2-2 vs FSU. He recruited those
Jan 11, 2013, 2:27 PM
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players you mentioned and Tommy won 9 games 2 times in 10 years. Dabo has done it 3 times in 4 years. Dabo has a conference title as well. You neglected to mention that Tommy got whooped by Beamer every year but Dabo owns VT. Tommy face 6 and 7 win USuCk not 11 win USuCk. Dabo needs to get the USuCk wins for sure but there is no comparison. Dabo has already done a better job then Tommy.
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Team Captain [450]
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And Tommy Bowdens 3-5 Bowl record isn't so hot either
Jan 11, 2013, 2:31 PM
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Big Game coach? Hahahaha..
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Orange Blooded [4423]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 10/15/03
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so, had we lost to ball state (and maybe someone else...
Jan 11, 2013, 2:49 PM
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in the acc), but beat South Carolina, would the bar be where you wanted it to be?
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Orange Blooded [4142]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4935
Joined: 3/30/03
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Re: The bar has been lowered.
Jan 11, 2013, 2:55 PM
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Why dont you decommit from Tiger net , cootie !
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110%er [5121]
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Joined: 7/18/02
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If we were losing to unranked SCar teams I "might" agree
Jan 11, 2013, 4:38 PM
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Our 2 losses were to top 10 teams. You have to admit that SCar has stepped up its game...I don't like it, but it is "what it is".
Tommy never won (or played for) the ACC championship or got to a BCS bowl. Advantage - Dabo.
Even Danny-the-Great lost at least once each year to someone he should have beat...Dabo won all the ones he "should" and then won the bowl game we were supposed to lose. Advantage - Dabo.
Your preoccupation with SCar is idiotic.
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110%er [5926]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 5/28/10
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dang this post came out of the woodworks
Jan 11, 2013, 6:59 PM
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lol
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CU Guru [1073]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 650
Joined: 10/17/08
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Complete BS......***
Jan 11, 2013, 7:16 PM
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Orange Blooded [2348]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1612
Joined: 12/4/07
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Beating South Carolina was easy when they sucked.
Jan 11, 2013, 9:39 PM
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For the first four years in their history, they have been an elite team.
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