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Legend [15216]
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Worst case scenario if we fire Brownell...
Feb 13, 2020, 8:06 PM
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Instead of being, on avg, a team who misses the NIT by one or two games, we become a team who misses the NIT by 3 or 4 games.
It's basically a can't lose scenario.
The only exception would be if our new coach cheated, the NCAA comes snooping, and discovers rampant cheating in football. But I highly doubt that would happen.
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Team Captain [498]
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Re: Worst case scenario if we fire Brownell...
Feb 13, 2020, 8:16 PM
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You didn't fan through the Shyatt years?
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Legend [15216]
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No difference to me in missing the nit by 1 game vs
Feb 13, 2020, 8:43 PM
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Missing it by 3.
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Hall of Famer [24986]
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I could get worse than that
Feb 13, 2020, 8:52 PM
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like 2-16 in the ACC bad
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Legend [15216]
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Nah. Our program is pretty sound and new facilities, etc...
Feb 13, 2020, 9:06 PM
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Our AD, president, and alignment from BOT is really strong right now.
We may not improve much, but I don't think things would get that awful.
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CU Medallion [57089]
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Re: I could get worse than that
Feb 13, 2020, 10:08 PM
[ in reply to I could get worse than that ] |
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So long as we get our share of the ACC basketball money, like the rest of the conference sucks off our football teat.
The ACC and ACC refs can go screw themselves.
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Team Captain [498]
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Re: Worst case scenario if we fire Brownell...
Feb 13, 2020, 10:26 PM
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Probably fruitless but I am going to do it anyway. Why would you fire a good coach or even just a decent coach who is a great guy and runs a clean program who graduates players and players really like playing for him who loves Clemson and goes out of his ways to support all of the other university sports and coaches; for a new coach who you admit and seem ok with maybe not even getting any better but maybe even getting a few games a year worse and most likely will not have all of the intangibles of the existing coach?
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Legend [15216]
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Did it with Tommy Bowden***
Feb 13, 2020, 11:10 PM
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Did it with Tommy Bowden***
Feb 13, 2020, 11:37 PM
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Was CTB really all that? I always saw him as an arrogant jerk who tried to act nice and behave for the cameras.
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Legend [15216]
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Tommy is a great person.
Feb 14, 2020, 3:08 AM
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I'm not suggesting we should fire Brownell. I actually have very little faith anyone else could do much better.
My only point is that it's a low risk move because once you move out of that "bubble NCAA team" then nobody cares anymore anyway.
I actually think, like Bowden, Brownell has us pretty stable. Our facilities are now really good. It's a great time at Clemson with our athletic stability. So we could make a decent hire if we so choose to go in a different direction.
Would that hire do much better?? Ehh...not sold. But would that hire do much worse? I doubt it. So it's a low risk move to try. That's my only argument.
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Orange Blooded [2287]
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Re: Tommy is a great person.
Feb 14, 2020, 7:07 AM
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I agree with you Caddie - there are certainly examples of programs that made great hires that turned the program around (in Clemson history we have Dabo, Barnes, Purnell, and others) as well as examples of major struggles after getting rid of a coach (Clemson Women basketball after Jim Davis, for example) but in the end I would rather take the risk to try to improve our future. It really doesn't matter if you're sitting at home during the tournament with a 16-14 record or sitting at home with a 13-17 record. You're still sitting at home.
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CU Guru [1260]
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Legend [19686]
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When you believe the program can be better
Feb 14, 2020, 1:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Worst case scenario if we fire Brownell... ] |
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than it is, you move on. Really as simple as that. Then it's up to the new guy to maintain the positives and improve the deficiencies
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110%er [8095]
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Worst case scenario .... Getting Rid of a Great Guy?!?!?!
Feb 14, 2020, 11:12 AM
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Ask your self, if we fire this great guy to bring in a comparable or worse human being, what does that gain us? Players like to play for him. Coaches respect him. With a bit more talent, Clemson could field a better team. The ACC is a very difficult conference. Duke and UNC will always be at the top. UVA and FSU have been great programs yesterday - UVA has perhaps THE best college coach. Wake and NC State will get their share of good recruits. Syracuse and Louisville have rich basketball history. Let's face it: winning in the ACC is not easy.
Let's not be like SCAR, who thinks they can throw money at football and compete against Bama, LSU, Clemson, UF, UGA consistently. They had their fluky run at it with SOS, but they sold their souls to get a jackarse like him for a few winning seasons. I am not willing to sell my soul.
I definitely don't want to fire Brownell without knowing who his replacement will be.
AND I would rather have Brad Brownell as our coach than Frank Martin with his anger management issues (even if seemingly controlled by meds). Listen to both coaches and tell me who you would want your sons to play for. The answer is without a doubt BRAD BROWNELL.
PS: I did not know anything about Brad Brownell until Clemson hired him. BUT I have been a huge supporter of his from day one. Listen to him talk. He knows what he is talking about.
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Orange Blooded [3616]
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Re: Worst case scenario .... Getting Rid of a Great Guy?!?!?!
Feb 14, 2020, 12:04 PM
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Brother, I loved your post and TUed you.
However, your intro line "getting rid of a great guy" is almost hilarious considering the context of negativism that grows all over this board.
Because all we talk about re basketball is firing the coach, it seems inevitable that it will ultimately happen. And as soon as we hire the next one, we'll do the same thing. We won't talk basketball, because we can't. We'll talk about something else until we can start talking about firing the new coach.
But this board is not reality, and your 'great guy' observation (along with JK's "he actually wants to be here!") is very relevant. The bottom line is that it's DRad's blessing, not problem, to have a basketball coach that has approximately 14.5 of the 15 most important characteristics in a successful ACC men's basketball coach, and he's getting better at the 15th.
If we change coaches, the new coach will need to be defensive-minded, gritty, passionate, a good communicator with young men and boosters, good with tactics, a student of the game, a teacher of the game, a good administrator, a good evaluator of both coaching and playing talent, honest but encouraging to potential recruits and their families, supportive of the unique Clemson community and mission it performs, visionary, responsive to the needs of young men of diverse backgrounds, a winner in attitude, a strong commitment to compliance with NCAA requirements and regulations, mature enough to handle the pressure of ACC basketball but content enough to work here long enough to build a lasting program.
All those things we already have in Brad Brownell. If the players are responding well to his leadership, DRad has no reason to venture into the alternative reality of Tigernet.
Great post, TF007.
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110%er [6075]
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There is no worst case in that scenario***
Feb 14, 2020, 12:06 PM
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Legend [19686]
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Sure there is
Feb 14, 2020, 1:36 PM
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there is also a better case scenario. All depends on who you move on to
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Orange Blooded [3616]
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Re: Sure there is
Feb 14, 2020, 3:34 PM
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there is also a better case scenario. All depends on who you move on to
And how far back the change sets you in recruiting
Not the most important cost if your program is actively circling the toilet, but still a relevant one.
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Legend [19686]
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You hire the right guy no time
Feb 14, 2020, 10:15 PM
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Recruits stay on board a lot. You cannot make decisions on the direction of the program based on one recruiting class anyway. Remember the class we had committed when we cut bait with Bowden?
Recruiting has been the major issue. We have two good ones committed, but neither are likely program changers as freshmen. You can count those type guys we've had on one hand. Tree, Wise, and Buckner. Maybe throw Boogie in there
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Worst case scenario if we fire Brownell...
Feb 14, 2020, 1:45 PM
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How about this team...
2010–11 Jeff Bzdelik 8–24 1–15 12th
2011–12 Jeff Bzdelik 13–18 4–12 T-12th
2012–13 Jeff Bzdelik 13–18 6–12 T-9th
2013–14 Jeff Bzdelik 17–16 6–12 T-11th
2014–15 Danny Manning 13–19 5–13 12th
2015–16 Danny Manning 11–20 2–16 14th
2016–17 Danny Manning 19–14 9–9 10th NCAA First Four
2017–18 Danny Manning 11–20 4–14 14th
2018–19 Danny Manning 11–20 4–14 13th
Or getting this coach
2014–15 Boston College 13–19 4–14 13th
2015–16 Boston College 7–25 0–18 15th
2016–17 Boston College 9–23 2–16 15th
2017–18 Boston College 19–16 7–11 12th NIT First Round
2018–19 Boston College 14–17 5–13 T–11th
2019–20 Boston College 11-11 5-6
Or these guys
2011–12 Gregory 11–20 4–12 T-11th
2012–13 Gregory 16–15 6–12 T-9th
2013–14 Gregory 16–17 6–12 T-11th
2014–15 Gregory 12–19 3–15 14th
2015–16 Gregory 21–15 8–10 T-11th NIT Quarterfinals
2016–17 Pastner 21–16 8–10 11th NIT Finalist
2017–18 Pastner 13–19 6–12 13th
2018–19 Pastner 14–18 6–12 10th
At this this guys was correct about UofL
2016–17 16–17 4–14 T–13th
2017–18 8–24 0–18 15th
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