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Cost of college ...
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Cost of college ...


Feb 20, 2019, 10:43 AM

All the posts about kids getting in to Clemson got me thinking ...

What's the breaking point on rising college tuition prices ?

There is still high demand, so prices keep rising.

Is there a point where parents will step in and say "It's not worth it" ? It would be a hard thing to tell a kid they can't go to college, but it would be harder to bury them under mountains of debt.

Will colleges become an exclusive club for the wealthy ?

My wife and I were fortunate enough that we were able to keep our 2 kids from being saddled with any student loan debt ... our retirement savings took a hit though ... even said, we still have 6K of student loan debt we're still working on.

Just trying to get a idea of what others are thinking.

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 20, 2019, 10:54 AM

how times have changed.walked away from 4yrs. of undergrad and 4 more of grad school owing $4500.1st year at CU(64) was $1400 for room,board,and tuition,and I was out of state.don't you worry about the up and coming college students,because Bernie's going to make everything free.you'll see.

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null


Nothing is ever free. He will tax us to death!***


Feb 21, 2019, 6:39 AM



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How do you keep Gamecocks out of your yard?
• Put up goal posts
What does a Gamecock grad call a Clemson Tiger grad in 2 years?
• Boss


Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 20, 2019, 10:57 AM

Until government stops subsidizing education, college costs will continue to rise faster than the consumer price index.

Prices would fall considerably if government stayed out of the education arena.

Costs at $100,000+ over the 4 year period will burden many families/students for more than a decade with debt payments :(

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This is completely inaccurate.


Feb 20, 2019, 1:17 PM

Rising costs of college are due, in large part to the opposite of what you're saying. It's a combination of state government retreating from funding higher education and congress not increasing Pell funding to keep up with inflation while also shifting to allowing more student loan availability.

Competition in higher education has only increased prices as institutions compete for students by offering rock walls, lazy rivers, and the like. Not only that, it has lead public state institutions to admit more out of state students in order to get their higher tuitions since the state isn't paying.

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Re: This is completely inaccurate.


Feb 20, 2019, 8:12 PM

I think this is both correct and incorrect. First, where it is correct is the competition for facilities and campus renovations. Everyone loves to see new buildings and campus growth but those are a source of significant expense that are at the discretion of the universities. Combined with other core inflationary items such as personnel, operating and maintenance costs. That, with a pull back on state funding is the gap is to be filled by higher tuition on both in and out of state students.

The limit is where positive ROI turns negative where a student’s projected income doesn’t support the initial investment. And the recognition of that by individuals to seek other career paths.

For what it’s worth, why do we need a rock wall or lazy river when we have Bowman field - one of the greatest places on Earth.

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Re: This is completely inaccurate.


Feb 20, 2019, 10:33 PM [ in reply to This is completely inaccurate. ]

Nah. I’m pretty sure the government with their guaranteed student loans have created this massive bubble with college tuition. It’s literally that simple.

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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln


Re: This is completely inaccurate.


Feb 20, 2019, 10:33 PM [ in reply to This is completely inaccurate. ]

Nah. I’m pretty sure the government with their guaranteed student loans have created this massive bubble with college tuition. It’s literally that simple.

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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln


Re: This is completely inaccurate.


Feb 21, 2019, 12:09 PM

You're agreeing with what I said.

Government subsidizing of tuition costs through Pell and state funding directly to universities is what made it possible for baby boomers to get an affordable college degree.

The change to increased loans to students instead of just paying for it without getting bankers and middlemen rich is the real problem.

Education should never be done for profit. Period.

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Re: This is completely inaccurate.


Feb 21, 2019, 2:13 PM

Education is a business. To think otherwise is misinformed or naive.

Room, board, books, and tuition for this older baby boomer at Clemson was less than $3,000 a year at Clemson when I went to school.

Today costs exceed some $25,000 per year that someone has to pay for 4 years.

Borrow $100,000 at 6% and you have approximately a $850 monthly payment for the next 15 years. :(

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They make it too easy. My daughter's company is paying


Feb 21, 2019, 6:28 AM [ in reply to This is completely inaccurate. ]

for her MBA at Wake Forest. At the beginning of each year she gets an email from financial aid offering her a loan for $59,000 a year. Plus loan or whatever they call it 7 or 8 percent. All she has to do is check a box and hit send. No signature required, the checked box is good enough.

Anybody that takes out a loan for college that takes 10 years to pay back, or even longer, is making a mistake. The "college experience" is not worth a 30 year mortgage. Community college teaches the same calculus and physics and English as any 4 year university, if not better due to smaller classes. Work hard get scholarships and transfer to State Universities for the last 2 years. Same degree.

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Re: This is completely inaccurate.


Feb 21, 2019, 12:35 PM [ in reply to This is completely inaccurate. ]

Why should the government fund education in the first place?

Colleges live of the government teat.

If government stayed out of the education "arena" then the free market would decide which schools survive.

Costs are too high.

Those schools that control costs and serve the student (their customer) best would survive.

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"Colleges live of the government teat"


Feb 22, 2019, 12:06 PM

interesting comment.I'm curious, just how much support do you think a "State" school like Clemson gets from its State government? Overall budget? 75% 50% 30%? 20%?

I know the answer but curious as to what you think

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Parents do not have to pay for their child's college education.


Feb 20, 2019, 11:00 AM

Ask mine.....they will tell you.

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 20, 2019, 11:07 AM

We've already made the decision. My son will graduate high school next year.
After much discussion and debate, he's decided to do the first two years of college
at Greenville Tech. It will cost him nothing (Life scholarship).
Why borrow upwards of $50k to get the basic courses out of the way? We're going
to cut his costs in half.

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 20, 2019, 11:14 AM

That was the path with my son. He got the basics out of the way in Jr. College and is doing last 2.5 years at Clemson. Saved a ton of money. I think that's becoming more common.

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 20, 2019, 11:55 PM [ in reply to Re: Cost of college ... ]

God bless him (and your wife) for having some fiscal sense. Already on path to success.

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Great choice. I had 3 in a row take that route


Feb 21, 2019, 6:37 AM [ in reply to Re: Cost of college ... ]

2 are Chemical Engineers from State. Both Graduated Magna ### Laude. One is a rocket scientist with ULA the other is senior engineer on a management path with RJ Reynolds. Community college helped them, not hurt them academically and when it came time to get a job. Employers viewed it as smart. Third kid is finishing up 3rd year at UNCC with comp sci degree. Same story, already has killer internship for next year before his senior year.

All three ended up with a few grand in loans. All will have loans paid off in months not years. All three worked, got some financial aid/scholarships, took out loans and got help from Dad without tapping retirement.

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My freshman year (1981)...


Feb 20, 2019, 11:35 AM

Tuition, a dorm room on campus, and a seven day meal plan was $1,250 per semester or $2.500 for the year.

Today...tuition, a room on campus, and a seven day meal plan is roughly $12,500 per semester or $25,000 per year.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: My freshman year (1981)...


Feb 20, 2019, 12:41 PM

My last semester at Clemson in fall of 1966 was $475.00 plus books
Still have the cancelled check. While I was there football tickets went from$4.00/game to $4.75.....

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 20, 2019, 3:48 PM

Will "On Line" undergraduate courses become a factor in the future? The "on campus" experience has many advantages but if costs continue to rise, many prospective students may have to look at other options. The wife of one of my grandsons (she's a Georgia grad) is getting her MBA from Clemson on line. Many others, like her, can continue in their current employment and still further their education.

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Yes.


Feb 21, 2019, 5:42 AM

Georgia Tech, for example, is now offering some online masters programs for $7000. That’s a flat-fee total.

Clemson is way, way behind. And is unfortunately more interested in spending on brick & mortar than keeping up with online degree programs.

http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/

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My guess is that tech schools and local community colleges....


Feb 20, 2019, 3:57 PM

Are seeing an uptick in students taking classes there a couple of years before transferring to a bigger school. That’s what I have observed....and what we are seriously contemplating for our own kids.
But who knows what it will be 5 years from now?

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 20, 2019, 4:03 PM

What's the breaking point on rising college tuition prices ?... Is there a point where parents will step in and say "It's not worth it" ? It would be a hard thing to tell a kid they can't go to college, but it would be harder to bury them under mountains of debt.

We are reaching it. However, the breaking point is not in the selection of college but rather the delay of other major life purchases. Later home ownership, etc. However the "idea" of wage garnishment from student loans will go as well as a coot in a library... I am still of the opinion that all non-public education debt should be default-able. You can't default on a tax-payer but you can default on a lending institution.

There is still high demand, so prices keep rising.
I think it is as much to do with the "pay later" scheme... if the cost was more immediate, it would be a lot more price-conscious.

Will colleges become an exclusive club for the wealthy ?
Already are and has already been... only for brief moments has "education" been more accessible and even then those times correspond to other issues with inequity... which some Clemson founders were involved.

Just trying to get a idea of what others are thinking.
Most of my "debt" was from graduate school and I was on assistantship... but I was paid $125 a week (in 2006) with a 15h week work requirement on top of classes. Didn't cover the cost of living or any other fee,etc. Add to that Clemson (love ya) can be tricky with aid. My out-of-state tuition was waived and all but $1000 was cover... August-May... but I had mandatory summer classes. yeah, that stunk. that was a 15K requirement that really was a undisclosed cost. After two semesters in a 2 year program, I was just over the barrel... but that was what it was...

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In 1988-89 my assistantship paid $500 a month


Feb 21, 2019, 6:43 AM

that was enough to live on. I taught Strength of Materials Lab. Tuition was reduced to $300 a semester. I worked a little on the side doing construction on weekends to help pay bills. Different times for sure.

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Student loan program is one of the biggest bubbles in


Feb 20, 2019, 6:27 PM

the country.

https://www.nasdaq.com/article/the-15-trillion-student-debt-bubble-is-about-to-pop-cm976619

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What's crazy is the number of yutes getting degrees and


Feb 20, 2019, 7:54 PM

either choosing not to use them or unable to use them. Some seem uninterested in entering the workforce using their degree for some reason. Some continue to get degrees that they should know on the front-end they cannot get a job with. Have seen multiple instances of both in the kids of friends and colleagues. Did I say crazy?

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Re: What's crazy is the number of yutes getting degrees and


Feb 20, 2019, 8:18 PM

Yep, so true ^^^

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Re: What's crazy is the number of yutes getting degrees and


Jan 19, 2014, 5:30 PM [ in reply to What's crazy is the number of yutes getting degrees and ]

You mean I can't get a degree in video game art design and then go back home to BFE and find a job in that field?

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I am an engineering professor (not at Clemson)


Feb 20, 2019, 8:33 PM

I already know this probably won't be my job in 10 years unless higher education changes immensely. Costs are out of control because states provide almost nothing now, and plush facilities are out of control.

As for actual learning, I'd say 75% of students have no interest in it. As for notes on the board or PPT? Useless. We can all look up information on a phone. Time in the classroom needs to be better used. Good luck getting students to show up ready to challenge themselves everyday.

Remember I teach engineering so students do need to learn to function in a career. I see zero use in a humanities or business degree especially for the cost. I try to stay active professionally in case the system implodes. I am trying to change how classes function in the meantime.

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We need good engineers, so keep working to turn some out!


Feb 20, 2019, 9:31 PM

It's a lot of the history professors and the like that need to go!

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Re: I am an engineering professor (not at Clemson)


Feb 20, 2019, 9:59 PM [ in reply to I am an engineering professor (not at Clemson) ]

I graduated with a degree in history from pc, minor in English and biology. Got a MEd in social studies education. I now work in human resources talent management it solutions consulting. Go figure. I also graduated with relatively little debt and a broad knowledge base. Aside from some specialized fields, the degree, in any field, and work experience checks the boxes. As long as you don't have 6 figure debt to go with it.

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You know you've raised a real tiger fan when you ask your son what he wants his cub scout pinewood derby car to be and he says a Tiger!


You don't see value in a business degree?


Feb 20, 2019, 11:29 PM [ in reply to I am an engineering professor (not at Clemson) ]



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I think good management comes from on the


Feb 21, 2019, 2:52 PM

job training. Or can anyway. I just see so many business majors who never go to class and do zero homework. They cannot be gaining that much.

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 21, 2019, 3:09 AM

It's a joke. It's a scam almost now for many degrees.

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Employers are expecting more, not less......


Feb 21, 2019, 4:51 AM

The reality is there is no breaking point as long as employers continue to expect more - and they will. Most companies that have a strong technical component will already say there are not enough qualified entry level graduates. To have a chance at success in most companies already does and will continue to require 4-year degrees and in the business areas an MBA.

There is a lot of scholarship money available and apparently a lot goes unused.

The major change I see is the structure of a 4 year degree will change at some point to become 3 years or even 2 by dropping any classes not in the major area and maximizing internet classes.

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 21, 2019, 12:40 PM

This will end in tears:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SLOAS

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 21, 2019, 12:52 PM

The trend I see is most kids wont be going to the major school unless they get scholarship money. I live in GA and what you see is all the second tier state universities blowing up in attendance. Those schools are building new buildings as fast as they can so that they can become a major school too. Some kids transfer for their last two years, but many dont. It will find its own balance, but agree that the student loan thing that the govt promoted is going to bust and we will fund all these kids through a bailout.

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 21, 2019, 1:21 PM

Yeah I'm going to chime in for a minute as a recent college graduate that started fall after high school, went part time, but eventually found a way to go back full time to earn a degree.

Also, I come from a lower end/borderline poverty income family so I was a 1st gen student to graduate.

Now, I cannot speak for everyone but I will say this, if your child/teenager doesn't know what they want to do, for the love of all don't push them to go to college. Let them live life for a few years to see if there's any path in life that they want that requires a college degree.

Secondly, if they have an idea of what they want to do, still don't encourage the college route. I wanted to be a pharmacist, even shadowed one for a day and thought it was great....but did not go down that route due to 1st semester grades. I went the juco route but had a hard time adjusting to the College structure but I could tell you looking back, other than the money aspect, I don't believe I would Have been fulfilled as a pharmacist.

Have them live life a little, intern or job shadow, maybe even consider the trade route at a tech school to see if they REALLY want to do that.

Thirdly, I honestly would only recommend going to college immediately after high school if they had a full ride - athletic or academic - or if they are super self aware of what makes them happy. Even with the academic full ride, I would still make sure it's right for them but at least in that instance they wouldn't owe anything (or minimal loans) if they dropped out or changed their minds a lot.

Overall, I loved my college experience but would most likely not enter after high school like I originally did. The cost is not worth it. I got somewhat lucky I didn't rack up 40k+ of student loans thanks to working my butt off the last two years of school being an RA, Student Ambassador, other university positions and working part time to make ends meet.

Honestly, I would probably bump the age of college entrance to like 21 or 22 since that seems to be the age when it starts clicking for most people. Certainly different folks, different results but highly recommend not letting kids go to school immediately after high school.

TL;DR : College is not for everyone. Honeslty, kids don't need it as much nowadays due to oversaturation and debt cost. Let teens live life for a few years before talking about college being an option if their life path requires it. They'll be smarter, more mature, and able to make more sound decisions when they are older ??

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Amen. Vets and older students perform


Feb 21, 2019, 8:27 PM

Significantly better. They want to be there and they want to learn. I think one year of military after HS is what everyone needs.

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Re: Cost of college ...


Feb 22, 2019, 9:45 AM

What I can tell you is my daughter graduated from high school last year and got her acceptance to Clemson in the first set of letters that went out. Her class rank and test scores were top notch. Our family has a long history of attending Clemson, going back nearly 100 years, but ultimately she decided to go to a smaller private out-of-state college. Clemson has changed drastically through the years and didn't have the small college feel important to her. The final cost (after scholarships) of going private out-of-state vs staying in-state at Clemson was equivalent, even without being able to use her Palmetto Fellows Scholarship out-of-state.

If you have kids wanting to attend Clemson, they need to work hard to attain the highest class rank and standardized test scores possible and you need to save a lot of money, a lot of money, to pay for it because Clemson doesn't offer nearly as many scholarship dollars as most other colleges.

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