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Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
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All-Pro [661]
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Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 12:08 AM
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Honestly, even the 4 team playoff has hurt the quality and excitement of the regular season. The Kick-6 game would have been meaningless to Alabama if the 4-team playoff had existed then. Our losses to Pittsburgh and Syracuse were significantly muted because we knew that we still controlled our destiny. With an 8-team playoff, you get that effect on steroids. Our game vs. Wake would be pretty meaningless. Ohio State could lose 1 and be fine. Legendary college football games with championship implications (like the West Virginia-Pittsburgh upset, the Kick-6 game and Matt Ryan's Virginia Tech comeback) are already on life support due to the 4-team playoff. An 8-team playoff would make it even worse and further water down the best regular season in sports.
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All-In [30804]
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When you punish teams for winning close games
Nov 13, 2019, 12:46 AM
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you've already weakened the regular season. Boost it to a 10 team playoff, conference champs only.. EVERY conference, power 5 and group of 5. Then you don't really weaken the regular season. Sure the non conference games won't mean as much, except for seeding. Theoretically, Dabo could say he's pulling all starters for the next 2 games, since they're "meaningless", but again, seeding would be impacted. Have the higher seeds host the first games to make tanking something you wouldn't do.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: When you punish teams for winning close games
Nov 13, 2019, 1:27 AM
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You can't do 10 unless somebody has a first-round bye.
Go to 8, have the five conference championship game winners advance +the next top 3.
However, for that to be fair, Notre Dame has to be "forced" into joining the ACC( or a Power 5 conference) and compete for the conference title.No free ride, no one less game scenario like last year.
If Notre Dame says no, say sorry, no 12-0 team gets in over a 12-1 team that lost the conference championship game.
Notre Dame is not above College Football, even if they do have "Touchdown Jesus" looking over them.
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All-In [30804]
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Seeds 7-10 are the "play in" to cut it down to 8
Nov 13, 2019, 1:41 AM
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#7 hosts #10
#8 hosts #9
Then reseed the top 8. Seed 1-4 hosts the 2nd round.
The mid majors have to play an extra game. I'm sure they would take that for a shot at a championship. Unless they're content on crowning any team that goes undefeated a fake champion, like UCF did.
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110%er [5712]
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Re: Seeds 7-10 are the "play in" to cut it down to 8
Nov 13, 2019, 8:18 PM
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Alabama is already tired enough without having to run that gauntlet.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: When you punish teams for winning close games
Nov 13, 2019, 1:57 AM
[ in reply to When you punish teams for winning close games ] |
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Awful idea. Big non-conference games are some of the most exciting matchups all year. And you'd completely destroy the importance of those games. Furthermore, you'll have garbage 8-4 teams slipping ingot the playoffs every year.
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All-In [30804]
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Then be prepared for 2-3 SEC teams in the mix every year
Nov 13, 2019, 2:11 AM
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judging by your pulse, that's the point.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: Then be prepared for 2-3 SEC teams in the mix every year***
Nov 13, 2019, 2:17 AM
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You have completely ignored my point in this thread. A bigger playoff just waters down the regular season. And teams ranked #5+ have no real chance of beating the top teams. #1 vs. #8 will often be a blowout.
The BCS system was generally great (in that it maximized the importance of the regular season) but was flawed in that an undefeated power conference team could be left out. The 4 team playoff corrects that issue. Any further expansion is a horrible idea.
I don't care which conferences the teams come from and lol @ you if you do. I care about (I) Clemson and (ii) college football maintaining it's entertainment value.
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All-In [39020]
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We never needed a standard playoff...
Nov 13, 2019, 8:37 AM
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All they ever had to do to fix the old system was add an additional national championship after the bowl games.
All your traditional bowl tie-ins stay intact this way, like the Rose Bowl, and it adds exactly the same number of games (one for two teams) as the playoff does.
It would be extremely rare to have more than two teams viable after the bowl games (pretty much never happened pre-BCS), preserves the importance of the regular season...would have been perfect.
But the cat's out of the bag now, and it's a matter of time before we go to 8, and then we'll go to 16 and, along with rules paying players, college football will be effectively ruined.
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Legend [16213]
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Great point, CP489. Today's semifinals are 2 of those bowl
Nov 13, 2019, 8:47 PM
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games already. And looking at the potential line-ups now with all these guarantees and tie-ins, several of the NY6 look downright abysmal under this current format. But then you're still having to 'select' two bowl winners to match up for a final.
I thought the old bowl system was better than the BCS for determining a champ, but feel like the CFP is better still than each. We don't need any more games in a season though, that's for sure.
Go Tigers.
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110%er [5430]
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All-In [25381]
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Well, Bmore, I remain convinced that it will expand
Nov 13, 2019, 4:57 AM
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to eight due to controversy among the P5's...a belief I've had since the CFP inception.
Last night, again, talking heads were salivating over a two SEC team inclusion in the top four, a reoccurence that prompted loud grumbling the year Bama and UGA were included.
I don't give a hoot if two, three or four SEC teams are actually the best in the land. The CFP will not survive unless ALL P5's believe the system is fair. Including two teams from one conference too many times will prompt screams of unfairness.
Hence, why I believe an expansion is on the way in five years or less...like it or not.
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CU Medallion [51870]
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Re: Well, Bmore, I remain convinced that it will expand
Nov 13, 2019, 12:43 PM
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I agree and noticed Herbie and others talking up adding more teams as early as last year. More games = more money. However, they might want to consider the players who will be leaving for the NFL and might want to sit out any added games.
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CU Guru [1712]
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$$$$$$$$$
Nov 13, 2019, 5:03 AM
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I am very happy with the curry 4-team playoff the way it is, but I'm afraid greed will force expansion. They see potential to make more money with an expanded field.
Some people also think that expanding the field would stop people from complaining if their team gets left out; I guess they forget what happens every year with the men's NCAA bracket, which is a field of 64 (68).
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: $$$$$$$$$
Nov 13, 2019, 10:05 AM
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You are likely right and it's of course short sighted. Yes the quarterfinal round would generate revenue but long-term that will be offset by the decline in regular season ratings as the cfb regular season eaters away. college basketball regular season ratings are bad in part due to the fact that very little matters before March for any team with a chance.
LSU-Alabama this past weekend would have been virtually meaningless under an 8-team format.
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CU Guru [1746]
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My biggest thing is..
Nov 13, 2019, 8:25 AM
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teams have their shot in the regular season, especially in the latter part, so why reward a team like Bama who lost on their home field in a must win game. Are they one of the 4 best teams? Probably so, but they just had a playoff game last week and lost - with a home field advantage.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: My biggest thing is..
Nov 13, 2019, 10:06 AM
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Agreed but I'm pretty sure Oregon/Utah will be above Alabama if they get to 12-1. So Alabama needs a bunch of teams to lose to make it this year.
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All-In [39020]
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Walking out of the stadium after Pitt, we had no idea
Nov 13, 2019, 8:32 AM
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we controlled our own destiny. We needed some chaos, but that chaos happened so rapidly (later that night) that it seemed like it didn't even happen.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 8:44 AM
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The regular season is still awesome. The 4 team playoff has made it even better. Without the playoff we wouldnt be able to win the National Title this year possibly.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 10:08 AM
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It's on the edge. For example LSU probably does not need to win the SEC championship game.
That said you are right that there isn't a huge decay in the regular season product. Expansion to 8 absolutely would impact the regular season though.
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MVP [541]
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Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 8:45 AM
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Well, you had me at "morons"....so nice, so classy.
But the truth is "expansion" is a misnomer. We don't need expansion - we need league reduction. 130 teams is way too many teams to accurately determine a champion. Is the CFP better than the BCS? Yes. Was the BCS better than AP Poll/Bowl coalitions? Meh…depends. But when you off-handedly say to ½ of the teams in the “league”….league = FBS….”I do not care WHAT you do – you will not play for the championship!” then your system is flawed. Imagine if your kid’s high school won every game but was told by the state league it could not play for the championship because they only have 18 guys on the team. How infuriating would that be for you and the team? What does that matter? We won, we should get to play, right? Or take it to the lowest level of competitive sports…Rec League soccer or baseball or basketball. You win, you get a chance to play for the title. NFL, MLB, NBA, NASCAR, PGA, even FCS football….every level of sports operates by this principle. But not FBS. Granted, our team is one of the ‘haves’ and not a ‘have not’ so its easy to dismiss the moanings from the Group of 5 teams. But if you take a sincere look at fairness for every team 1 thru 130, you realize that 1) a playoff system for 130 teams in a contact, violent sport like football is not healthy and 2) the ‘league’ would have to be cut at least in half, if not thirds to make it truly fair.
But how do we do that and keep everyone’s pockets full of cash like they want? Ay there’s the rub.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 10:11 AM
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The NCAA doesn't run the playoff system so the incentive is for the power 5 to be an exclusive group. Yes, there are 130 teams in the division but it's really just the power 5 that have any say in the faux championship playoff (it's not a real NCAA championship).
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110%er [7173]
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Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 8:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla ] |
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Well, you had me at "morons"....so nice, so classy.
But the truth is "expansion" is a misnomer. We don't need expansion - we need league reduction. 130 teams is way too many teams to accurately determine a champion. Is the CFP better than the BCS? Yes. Was the BCS better than AP Poll/Bowl coalitions? Meh…depends. But when you off-handedly say to ½ of the teams in the “league”….league = FBS….”I do not care WHAT you do – you will not play for the championship!” then your system is flawed. Imagine if your kid’s high school won every game but was told by the state league it could not play for the championship because they only have 18 guys on the team. How infuriating would that be for you and the team? What does that matter? We won, we should get to play, right? Or take it to the lowest level of competitive sports…Rec League soccer or baseball or basketball. You win, you get a chance to play for the title. NFL, MLB, NBA, NASCAR, PGA, even FCS football….every level of sports operates by this principle. But not FBS. Granted, our team is one of the ‘haves’ and not a ‘have not’ so its easy to dismiss the moanings from the Group of 5 teams. But if you take a sincere look at fairness for every team 1 thru 130, you realize that 1) a playoff system for 130 teams in a contact, violent sport like football is not healthy and 2) the ‘league’ would have to be cut at least in half, if not thirds to make it truly fair.
But how do we do that and keep everyone’s pockets full of cash like they want? Ay there’s the rub.
Love your take on this! I agree.
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CU Medallion [51870]
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I have a point--keep adding more games
Nov 13, 2019, 10:28 AM
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onto the end of the season, and you'll have a lot of the best players sitting them out. If a champion can't be determined in 15 games the system is already hopeless.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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I hear ya, but
Nov 13, 2019, 10:51 AM
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It’s not so far fetched to imagine what if Oregon doesn’t blow it against Auburn, and OU doesn’t lose to K State. Potentially an undefeated champion in each P5 conference at year end, one of which is outside looking in. The fact that it hasn’t happened does not excuse it being set up to allow that to happen.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: I hear ya, but
Nov 13, 2019, 5:25 PM
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It is far-fetched. How many times in cfb history have 5 power conference level teams finished undefeated? How many times have 4 finished undefeated?
The odds of 3 are slim. The odds of 5 are virtually 0.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: I hear ya, but
Nov 13, 2019, 5:25 PM
[ in reply to I hear ya, but ] |
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It is far-fetched. How many times in cfb history have 5 power conference level teams finished undefeated? How many times have 4 finished undefeated?
The odds of 3 are slim. The odds of 5 are virtually 0.
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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This is why you have to have 8
Nov 13, 2019, 11:02 AM
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but they have to be conference champions. You kick two teams out, 8 conferences with 16 teams, 16 with 8 can work too. That is it. No byes, at most a committee determines seeding. It is really very simple.
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Legend [16213]
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Disagreeing moran here.
Nov 13, 2019, 12:31 PM
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With expansion to 4 games MORE regular season games matter now than they did prior, not less. Each game today is still precious, and it's helped create more exposure for the game overall as more people tune in to other regional games to see how it may affect their own program's standing.
IMmoranicO, moving to 8 with P5 champ auto-bids would accomplish even more for the regular season PROVIDED it is structured to replace the CCG's with the round of 8 (4 games instead of today's 5 - less is more), and award a home game to the Top 4 for the first round.
Our game with NC State and Wake both would be critical wins still this season, even as conference champs and an auto bid, as it would allow us to host that first game. That has extraordinary value. The same applies for other conferences also, LSU and Bama's recent game included.
The other benefit of no CCG's is better regular seasons due to getting rid of conference divisions and playing more league teams more often - greater variety and opportunities for more in-conference rivalries to develop. Getting an auto bid as a conference champ also helps produce MORE interesting cross-conference games as a loss in Week 1 doesn't threaten the rest of your season.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Disagreeing moran here.
Nov 13, 2019, 12:42 PM
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The regular season would get watered down. Our game against Wake this week would be nothing at all, and really our game against South Carolina wouldn't either beyond bragging rights. Also, why would any major team bother to schedule any tough teams OOC? What reason would Clemson have for playing someone like A&M, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, etc... especially bothering to play anyone OOC on the road when SOS wouldn't matter at all in terms of getting into the playoffs as long as you win your conference?
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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This is a fair point.
Nov 13, 2019, 12:53 PM
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But at the same time you could get more big OOC games in the 8 giant conference idea. Why not schedule some really good home and homes with OOC people if it can't hurt you? Take it as a chance to make more money. You could also see more early season neutral site games if the sponsorship was there.
This would impact the Furmans and Woffords of the world as their chances to cash a check may go down.
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Legend [16213]
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The recent moves by Alabama and UGA, plus other Power 5
Nov 13, 2019, 5:47 PM
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programs, to ramp up their quality P5 OOC home and home scheduling is generally attributed to the thought that the playoff will expand to 8 teams by the time many of those contests kick in, where an early season potential L isn't a full season killer. Instead, fans are rewarded with better non-conference games on the schedule, and you're resume building for an at-large if you don't win a conference championship.
In essence, college AD's are improving regular seasons already in anticipation of an 8 team playoff.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: The recent moves by Alabama and UGA, plus other Power 5
Nov 13, 2019, 8:10 PM
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programs, to ramp up their quality P5 OOC home and home scheduling is generally attributed to the thought that the playoff will expand to 8 teams by the time many of those contests kick in, where an early season potential L isn't a full season killer. Instead, fans are rewarded with better non-conference games on the schedule, and you're resume building for an at-large if you don't win a conference championship.
In essence, college AD's are improving regular seasons already in anticipation of an 8 team playoff.
Yeah this is completely false and you just made it up. Surveys actually show that the vast majority of coaches/AD's are against playoff expansion and don't expect it to happen (because of the power of the bowls).
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Legend [16213]
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This has been referenced numerous times in releases
Nov 13, 2019, 8:32 PM
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about recent big scheduling announcements. AD's aren't necessarily saying it, but they're scheduling like it's headed that way according to many beat writers coverage.
That AD's may believe it's inevitable doesn't mean they're for it. Kinda like the 2020 prez race.
If you're a search guru you can find some I'm sure.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: This has been referenced numerous times in releases
Nov 13, 2019, 9:19 PM
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Those beat writers are generally no-nothing clowns (no different than ESPN or non-sports media personalities) who write slanted articles and use persuasive writing tricks to sell readers on their personal beliefs/desires.
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: Disagreeing moran here.
Nov 13, 2019, 2:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Disagreeing moran here. ] |
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Easy solution....Stop letting schools control who they play and award conference champs by overall record just like the NFL does.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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in 2011 when LSU beat Bama that reg season game meant somuch
Nov 13, 2019, 2:25 PM
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also in 2017 when Auburn beat Bama.
Did you ever think that one reason we get so few big OOC matchups is because the importance of not losing?
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 2:30 PM
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Yea but think of the great OOC matchups we’d see with an 8 or even better 16 team playoff.
Instead of wondering who was best we’d just find out by letting the teams decide on the field instead of a random collection of people handpicking them.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 5:32 PM
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You could legitimately go 9-3 and make a 16 team playoff. Yeah seems like each regular season game would really matter for the top teams (those with a prayer of actually winning the playoff).
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All-TigerNet [10602]
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Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 5:41 PM
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Four is just fine and every game means something. Do you think any team in the top eight or ten now think they have a game to throw away. The talking heads may think so but I bet the coaches and players don't. I don't want to see teams pulling their starters for a game because they are "in". Every game, even for the Tigers, is a play-off game.
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All-Pro [661]
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Re: Hey morons, cfb has a great regular season, don't expand pla
Nov 13, 2019, 8:12 PM
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If there was an 8-team playoff LSU and Ohio State would absolutely be resting their starters in their conference championship games.
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Legend [16472]
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Agree. The whining will not end until ALL teams are in the
Nov 13, 2019, 8:54 PM
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playoff. How big do you go?
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110%er [7173]
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I get the premise. Agree to a degree.
Nov 13, 2019, 8:56 PM
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I am waiting for the year when each of the power 5 conferences has an undefeated champion!
***That's when the playoffs will expand. Everyone can say - "will never happen"! Well, you could be right! But, what if it did? How do you tell an undefeated power 5 champion "they have no shot at the title"? If so, what criteria will be the determining factor?
Strength of schedule? Do you penalize a P5 team for the other teams weaknesses?
OOC schedule? Whoever has the stronger OOC schedule wins out?
***I agree on the fact an 8 team playoff "just means more" sec teams who can drop a game or two and still get the opportunity to compete. Remember in the long history of college football - teams use to not even play the bowl games. The champion was "voted on" based on what you did in the regular season. Kind of like the "mythical National Champion in High School"! Sports writers who could not have possibly have seen every team voting on it. That wasn't fair a lick!
Throw in bowl games where #1 would play like #8 and if #1 won the game they were the National Champions. At least in those scenarios the one thing that remained - you had to win them all. You couldn't have a " nap game " where you slept walked through and got beat! If you did, you were basically out. Unless everybody else loss and you were than again considered because they of course choose between the best 1 loss team.
If you believe in giving 2nd chances to teams who lost early then yeah, go to eight teams!
***The flip side to what you are saying is: you could schedule a few really good games so you can learn from and get better! Then by the end of the season - b/c you are better off having played good teams - you are one of the best! Assuming you lost against that early scheduled tough opponent. Could make for lots more intriguing games early season!
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