Re: The only shred of reality on mainstream media on Syria...

Oculus Spirit [97664]

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I have a different take on this. It may not sit well with

Apr 10, 2018, 9:09 AM

some hand-wringing liberals and politicians who can't be pigeon-holed into supporting killing children (hence this being bi-partisan). The real reason the politicians are all in agreement that we need an all out war is because Assad is so bad and evil. No politician for either party is going to sit around and say wait, we shouldn't do this.

BUT....will we ever learn from our mistakes? I'd say so, hopefully.

First off, democracy will never come to the middle east. It just won't, not in our flavor at least. We in the US seem to think everyone is like us, and therefore our example is the best for everyone. People like this have never spent time in a Muslim country. If you did, you would KNOW why democracy will never work there. The really intelligent also understand why democracy DOES work here, and in Europe.

Anyway, if you're willing to accept that democracy will never come to the middle east in any form resembling our own, then you have to recalculate the evils. One one hand, you have a ruthless tyrant but one that is of no real threat to the US and is just a tyrant in his own backyard. This was Saddam Hussein, for example. As distasteful as it may seem to support a tyrant, removing the tyrant will actually threaten us MORE. When a tyrant is eliminated there is a power vacuum. In Muslim countries this is an open door for ISIS, or groups similar, or groups aligned with Iran, to take control. Is ISIS ruling a population any better than a tyrant? Nope. Actually worse arguably. And since it destabilizes the region further, it makes OUR danger and exposure actually greater. Syria is happening because of our removal of Saddam Hussein. When we removed him from power, we had no plan to fill the vacuum. Hence ISIS. Then ISIS moved into Iraq and into Syria and destabilized the region further. We remove Assad and then ISIS will advance further.

The Russians are being pragmatic here. We are being emotional and irrational. That's just how I see it. I supported the Iraq war, but we totally botched the victory. Removing Assad will only open the vacuum up more. Russia knows this. They want stability with a tyrant over an even more violent and unstable theocracy. A tyrant can be controlled and managed because there's a power point to attack and influence. Remove that centralized power and control, and we can no longer have any control of the situation. There is a civil war going on there now. Whether we intervene or not, or the Russians intervene or not, each side will be ruthless. Remove Assad and nothing will improve for the people and children. They will still be at the hands of an evil theocracy instead of an evil tyrant. Furthermore, supporting those fighting against Assad who we THINK we can work well with in the future and who are most likely to bring democracy is the wrong approach. How did supporting the Taliban against the Russians in Afghanistan in the 80's work out for us? Not too well on 9/11/01. How did supporting Saddam Hussein against Iran work out for us? Not too well.

I'd leave them alone to fight it out. There is nothing for us to gain by removing Assad.

Which brings us to our politicians, and our "democracy" in action. Do nothing and Trump will be attacked for doing nothing. Do something, and Trump will be attacked for creating a vacuum for ISIS to expand as they then threaten Israel directly with the assistance of Iran. The metrics and optics for the here and now demand action. And that's all that Congress, the media,and most politicians care about. Obama handled this correctly. Do some limited air strikes, save face, and then keep on ignoring. That's what Trump has done so far as well. Hopefully he stays the course and does not commit to a disaster.

Message was edited by: Tiggity®

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1. Only permanent access to Mediterranean Sea, and one of few warm water ports for Russia.

2. Because of clumsy American foreign policy in Syria the Russians took the opportunity to show that we were not actually fighting terrorism there. They mercilessly bombed AL Qaeda and ISIS and turned the war around in a relatively short amount of time after the US had been there all along. The Russian's were able to shine a light on the fact that US, UK, France, KSA, etc were actually supporting jihadists in an attempt to overthrow a secular (yet repressive) government. This helped Russia tear away a LOT of influence in the region. Now Russia has much more influence in the region than we do. We are clinging on to Saudi Arabia, but Russia has Turkey (sorta) Iran, Syria, and probably Iraq (once they and Syria become more stable)

3. National prestige. Russia feels it has been thoroughly disrespected, demonized and threatened since the end of the cold war, and somewhat similar to the US during the first Gulf War, was desperate for a military/political/diplomatic success that would show the world it is still relevant. (Gulf War I exorcized a lot of the demons from Vietnam that still lingered on for US military and enhanced our national prestige)

The only shred of reality on mainstream media on Syria...

This is what happens when the press does its job...

Notes:

I have a different take on this. It may not sit well with

If we get rid of Assad and then we may get worse.

Probably. And hopefully that's it. A face-saving

I don't know if it is true, but some "expert" or whatever...

Assad has the Russian air force.

It did not destroy 1/5th of Assad's Air Force.

^^ exactly what I was going to say.

Not really. We botched Iraq. Hence this situation

Let me rephrase. The CIA has written the book on it

All Christians. No Muslim nations.

We overthrew an elected Republic in Iran in the 50's

Egypt...? (or does it still exist?) Kind of dropped from MSM***

Tucker has no idea about last time or this time.

Yes and that's an important point. We didn't know then.

Exacty. Situation where so many more lives could be...

Armament companies and DC Think Tanks won't get paid...***

Re: The only shred of reality on mainstream media on Syria...

Seems most of our gov officials were saying we should the AM

All signs point to this being primarily political.

Most people have good sense if they have access to reality.

Here's the thing though

but this time it's a big ### dog,both parties seem to want

UPDATE:

Russian planes are breaking the sound barrier over Tartus.

You're sounding like a crazy person***

Yes, I'm crazy. That's the extent of it. Thread solved.

On a different note, what is Russia's interest in Syria?*****

A few reasons.

They need that port. Syians are stuck with them now.*****

Syrians are hero-worshipping Putin right now.

Yeah, but everyone who opposes Assad I would imagine.......

Oh yeah, time always strains relationships.

Plus it is the Midde East.*****

If we go to war US will spend half a billion fighting for no gain.

3 trillion divided by 300 million is 10,000 per person.*****

None of which we have

Well as long as we have the petrodollar, we can print money

Exactly why we overthrew Gadafi... Gold-backed currency.***

Looks like the narrative may be finally cracking. Another...

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