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YOUR BALANCE
The 800 Rule
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The 800 Rule


Jun 28, 2018, 11:14 PM

This is the first time I’ve ever posted but I figured it’s the best place to ask if anyone knows where I can find articles about the actual lawsuit or court information?

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 29, 2018, 12:09 AM

Would love to help but have no idea what you are talking about.

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


This might be the best first post in tnet history.***


Jun 29, 2018, 1:03 AM



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null


Re: This might be the best first post in tnet history.***


Jul 1, 2018, 10:36 PM

Why? Just curious.

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 29, 2018, 1:29 AM

Google the 800 rule regarding the ACC

The ACC started requiring athletes who received scholarships to score 800 on the SAT .
This went on for several years and made it harder to compete with the big boys .
Gamecocks thought they would be big boys if they left the conference and became independent as they could offer scholarships to those who made 750 or less .

I think it was UNC and Duke that pushed for the higher standards especially for basketball .

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 29, 2018, 3:44 AM

The Irony of UNCheat asking that an athlete's academic standards be raised .

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DB23


Re: The 800 Rule- well clearly


Jun 29, 2018, 7:49 AM

they didnt meant THEIR athletes. Just apply it for everyone else. The Carolina way

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 29, 2018, 7:59 AM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

Attaboy Doug! You don't miss many opportunities. ??

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 29, 2018, 11:09 AM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

There was an article in one of the Charlotte newspapers sometime in the 1980's with the average SAT scores for each team in the ACC. Dean Smith was adamant that such records should not be made public.
When one looked at the scores, it was easy to understand Smith's comment. His UNC Blue Boys were near the bottom of the conference. If I recall correctly, the average for his team was somewhere in the 600's, an absolute disgrace.

Several years ago I tried to retrieve the article but the newspaper had gone out of business sometime earlier and I could find nothing. I saved the article when it was published and showed it to some Tarheel fans when they kept telling me about their high standards for admission and retention. They swore up and down that the numbers in the article were wrong. The recent "flap" at UNC was no "first time anything like that has happened". It has been going on for years with a well oiled coverup.

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We simply must find the microfiche as this


Jun 29, 2018, 4:19 PM

would be awesome to show to folks.

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anyone with a subscription to newspapers.com


Jun 29, 2018, 4:35 PM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

should be able to access it. I used to have one, but let it lapse.

https://go.newspapers.com

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 29, 2018, 4:45 PM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

When I worked at UNC hospital I had a patient once that was a retired UNC professor, he told me Dean Smith came to him once not long after being hired I told him he "must" change one of the players grades in order to keep him eligible. The professor said he told him to go to hell. LOL would've loved to have heard that in person.

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 29, 2018, 8:35 PM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

Usually local libraries (local to where the paper was printed) have every page of every newspaper that they printed on microfiche.

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 30, 2018, 9:17 AM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

Get them to check out Dwight Jones, college football player 2008ish. Clemson denied his acceptance but UNC took him in.

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You are probably my favorite poster on here.


Jun 29, 2018, 8:41 PM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

I had that same thought.

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No I like Dug23 and his responses.


Jun 30, 2018, 9:12 AM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

Pretty funny and smart

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 30, 2018, 4:16 PM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

That has to be bc they have those non classes that their athletes can get A's without even having a class room to report to. It's called the free A+ class for all athletes needing academic help!!!

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 30, 2018, 4:40 PM [ in reply to Re: The 800 Rule ]

I guess UNCheat couldn't keep up with what they campaigned for, and invented classes that a 5th grader could have passed without ever actually having a class room that they could receive A's from.

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Are you the walrus?


Jun 29, 2018, 2:25 AM

Goo goo g'joob!

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As I recall it was potential players from both


Jun 29, 2018, 9:13 AM

Maryland and Clemson that brought and won the lawsuit.

The ACC started recruiting under the same rules as other NCAA schools in 1974. By 1977, Clemson was back as a perennial bowl participant.

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Re: As I recall it was potential players from both


Jun 29, 2018, 9:22 AM

Set the conference back by 20 years

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Tidbits and nuggets about the 800 rule


Jun 29, 2018, 3:54 PM

The ACC 800 rule required a potential student athlete to score at least 800 on the SAT test to be awarded an athletic scholarship If a kid did not score 800, he could sometimes get into school based on the schools admission policies, but could not get a grant-in-aid to play sports.

So of course,the best jocks who scored low on the SAT skipped the ACC and went to play in the SEC, or the Big 10 or the Big 8. ACC football and basketball went downhill.

South Carolina did not like the rule and so they cheated. The AD at SC set up a secret fund to pay the tuition and fees of good players who scored less than 800. Yep, the Athletic Director and Head Football coach at South Carolina set up a slush fund and the Gamecocks 'signed' players who scored less than 800, promising off the record to pay the tuition and fees. And pay the Gamecocks did. And win the Gamecocks did. SC actually won the ACC in football, I think in 1965 on the field, using ineligible players. And USC got caught. And USC had to forfeit games and an ACC title. And USC's AD and Football coach were fired. And this insider scandal, this plan to intentionally violate the rules and cover it up was the worst NCAA violations any school in the ACC ever committed, at least until UNC started faking classes and giving grades. Very few Gamecocks acknowledge these facts. All old SC fans can recall the Clemson probation from 1982, in which we forfeited no games, but for some reason, they ##### cannot recall their own major transgression.

In the early 80s, SC threatened to leave the ACC if the rule was not dropped. Clemson pushed hard to also have the rule dropped and there was some thought to our Tigers leaving the league when SC left.
But SC left and Clemson stayed in the league. Meanwhile a couple of students at Clemson, students who scored less than 800 but were admitted to Clemson sued in court over the ACC rule which did not allow them to get aid to play sports, even though they were regular students at Clemson.

I think it looked like a sure loss in court for the ACC and so the league dropped the 800 rule in the face of the legal challenge by Clemson students.

SC left the ACC and wandered in the desert for a long, long time. The ##### tried to play as an independent. SC joined some made up lost soul league, I think it was called the Metro Conference. I think the ##### spent some time standing on street corners with signs begging to join a conference, any conference.

Meanwhile Clemson went on a tear, beat Ohio State, beat Notre Dame, beat Georgia, won a Natty, beat Penn State, beat Oklahoma, beat FSU, had four ten win seasons in a row and pretty much laughed our butts off at the Gamecocks.

Then the Gamecocks got a charity invite from the SEC and joined that league. For a few years the ##### crowed about how it was only a matter of time before SEC speed and SEC quality players would allow them to dominate Clemson. I think the year they joined was 1991. Since that time, Clemson has won 17 of 27 football games versus the Gamecocks, played in 3 straight college football playoffs, won a Natty, and generally wore out the Gamecocks at will on the gridiron.

In response to these events most Gamecocks have become huge fans of Alabama in football, Kentucky in Basketball, Florida in both football and basketball and last night those #### fans were cheering their butts off for Arkansas in the CWS. (Did any Clemson fan want UNC to win a natty in baseball? NO, of course not.)

So that's the long story of the 800 rule and the important things that have come out of it.

Go Tigers!!

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ummm USuC was out of the ACC long before the early 80's for certain


Jun 30, 2018, 9:10 AM

I don't even recall when they were in the ACC and I was old enough to begin watching and attending Clemson games in '74 or so.

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Coots left the ACC in 1971.***


Jun 30, 2018, 11:42 AM



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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
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Independent******


Jun 30, 2018, 11:28 PM [ in reply to ummm USuC was out of the ACC long before the early 80's for certain ]



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Re: Tidbits and nuggets about the 800 rule


Jul 1, 2018, 7:52 PM [ in reply to Tidbits and nuggets about the 800 rule ]

I was student at Clemson when SCar left the ACC in 1971 but it had more to do with Frank Maguire and the ACC & NCAA basketball tourneys than with football or the 800 rule.

The ##### had some pretty good bb in those days (remember Roche, Ribock & Cremins?) But the NCAA tourney only took 32 teams & to get in a team pretty much had to win its conference championship to go to the dance. SCar was regular season champ 2 yrs in a row but lost the tourney (1971 I’m pretty sure it was Carolina but don’t quote me). Anyhow, Maguire was fed up and convinced the AD to bail on the ACC. I don’t think Dietzel objected.

Their annual that year actually saved pages for pics & copy about the ##### in the NCAA. Those pages ended up being left blank

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Tidbits and nuggets about the 800 rule


Jun 29, 2018, 3:59 PM [ in reply to Re: As I recall it was potential players from both ]

The ACC 800 rule required a potential student athlete to score at least 800 on the SAT test to be awarded an athletic scholarship If a kid did not score 800, he could sometimes get into school based on the schools admission policies, but could not get a grant-in-aid to play sports.

So of course,the best jocks who scored low on the SAT skipped the ACC and went to play in the SEC, or the Big 10 or the Big 8. ACC football and basketball went downhill.

South Carolina did not like the rule and so they cheated. The AD at SC set up a secret fund to pay the tuition and fees of good players who scored less than 800. Yep, the Athletic Director and Head Football coach at South Carolina set up a slush fund and the Gamecocks 'signed' players who scored less than 800, promising off the record to pay the tuition and fees. And pay the Gamecocks did. And win the Gamecocks did. SC actually won the ACC in football, I think in 1965 on the field, using ineligible players. And USC got caught. And USC had to forfeit games and an ACC title. And USC's AD and Football coach were fired. And this insider scandal, this plan to intentionally violate the rules and cover it up was the worst NCAA violations any school in the ACC ever committed, at least until UNC started faking classes and giving grades. Very few Gamecocks acknowledge these facts. All old SC fans can recall the Clemson probation from 1982, in which we forfeited no games, but for some reason, they ##### cannot recall their own major transgression.

In the early 70s, SC threatened to leave the ACC if the rule was not dropped. Clemson pushed hard to also have the rule dropped and there was some thought to our Tigers leaving the league when SC left.
But SC left and Clemson stayed in the league. Meanwhile a couple of students at Clemson, students who scored less than 800 but were admitted to Clemson sued in court over the ACC rule which did not allow them to get aid to play sports, even though they were regular students at Clemson.

I think it looked like a sure loss in court for the ACC and so the league dropped the 800 rule in the face of the legal challenge by Clemson students.

SC left the ACC and wandered in the desert for a long, long time. The ##### tried to play as an independent. SC joined some made up lost soul league, I think it was called the Metro Conference. I think the ##### spent some time standing on street corners with signs begging to join a conference, any conference.

Meanwhile Clemson went on a tear, beat Ohio State, beat Notre Dame, beat Georgia, won a Natty, beat Penn State, beat Oklahoma, beat FSU, had four ten win seasons in a row and pretty much laughed our butts off at the Gamecocks.

Then the Gamecocks got a charity invite from the SEC and joined that league. For a few years the ##### crowed about how it was only a matter of time before SEC speed and SEC quality players would allow them to dominate Clemson. I think the year they joined was 1991. Since that time, Clemson has won 17 of 27 football games versus the Gamecocks, played in 3 straight college football playoffs, won a Natty, and generally wore out the Gamecocks at will on the gridiron.

In response to these events most Gamecocks have become huge fans of Alabama in football, Kentucky in Basketball, Florida in both football and basketball and last night those #### fans were cheering their butts off for Arkansas in the CWS. (Did any Clemson fan want UNC to win a natty in baseball? NO, of course not.)

So that's the long story of the 800 rule and the important things that have come out of it.

Go Tigers!!

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Re: Tidbits and nuggets about the 800 rule


Jun 29, 2018, 4:31 PM

Good recap. The final straw for USuC was when Mike Grosso was forced to leave after his freshman year because of the cheating scheme you described.

The 800 rule was also the reason Pete Maravich had to go to LSU rather than play at NC State.

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Harley cites facts seldom mentioned


Jul 1, 2018, 11:27 AM [ in reply to Tidbits and nuggets about the 800 rule ]

on fgf or in chicken media....I think a couple of generations of their ill-informed fan base are completely oblivious to the magnitude of cheating by usuck over the years......however, they all pretend to know every detail of Clemson's run-in with the NCAA in '82.....and still chicken football remains the laughing stock of the Southeast

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Re: As I recall it was potential players from both


Jun 30, 2018, 8:46 AM [ in reply to Re: As I recall it was potential players from both ]

The original suit was started by Beach and Vickery who were students at Clemson but not allowed to play due to the 800 rule. It became a class-action when Allen and Anderson joined the suit after signing letters of intent to Clemson during their senior year in high school but became ineligible after graduation. The four students actually sued Clemson & the ACC to have the rule thrown out.

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Re: As I recall it was potential players from both


Jun 30, 2018, 1:06 AM [ in reply to As I recall it was potential players from both ]

My Grandfather was one of the 4 attorneys that represented Beach, Vickery, Allen & Anderson in the class-action suit against Clemson & ACC. I grew up hearing stories about the case but it’s very hard to find any articles about the actual case presented in Federal Court.

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jun 30, 2018, 2:33 AM

uscjr was already an independent by the time I attended Clemson. I believe they were independent from 71 - 91. My recollection is they felt the ACC was holding them back and they could do much better as an independent. How can anyone say that with a straight face.

I'm surprised they haven't hung a banner for 20 straight championships of their one team conference.

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jul 1, 2018, 12:11 PM

http://www.thestate.com/latest-news/article14350709.html

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Re: The 800 Rule


Jul 1, 2018, 7:03 PM

It was set at 750 by the ACC in 1960 and raised to 800 in 1964. Dropped in 72. During that 60-72 period the conference went way downhill due to unfair playing field on recruiting. Of course starting in about 68 to 70 integration came in to play and with the dropping of the 800 rule things changed. But that 12 year period set the ACC back for 20 years and we are just now catching up.

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